The Bills are going to do well, and the Patriots are not.

[PolishDave]

the Patriots looked bad at the start of last season too. Then they won the Super Bowl

Yep. People were calling for their demise last year after the way they started the season. But inevitably, they still got it done.

 

If they start this season 0-4 I will feel a lot better. At least it will be another major uphill battle for them. But I won't count them out until they have 8 losses.

[billsfan_34]

-every year someone says this - they will find a new way to cheat and also have every ounce of luck on theor side. They will win 2 of the first 4 then Brady will stick to everyone again by finding a new way to cheat--bet on it.

[PromoTheRobot]

I like to think that the Pats** are fading but Billy Belicheat always comes up with a new way to beat the rules. I hope Terry & Kim know their "friend" Krafty Bob and his organization are not to be trusted

[Augie]

Tom Brady is 38. The cliff will come. The bus will go over the cliff. And the world will rejoice. But not soon enough.

[PromoTheRobot]

You know what is curious to me? Brady is pushing 38 and still playing like a man in his 20's. Nothing suspicious there. I mean Roger Clemens threw rockets late in his career. Not like he was juicing or anything. Just clean living.

Edited August 23, 2015 by PromoTheRobot

[Augie]

You know what is curious to me? Brady is pushing 38 and still playing like a man in his 20's. Nothing suspicious there. I mean Roger Clemens threw rockets late in his career. Not like he was juicing or anything. Just clean living.

Clean living indeed. Anything else would be against the rules, and we know what sticklers they are about rules.

[jester43]

Amid all the talks of Deflategate;

of Suh signing in Miami;

of Geno getting his jaw broken;

 

I'm curious if anyone has tuned into any AFC Eastern preseason games this summer?

 

For once, in the decade and a half reign of the Patriots*, they don't just look beatable--they look bad.

 

Last night against the Saints starters, Tommy and the Patriots looked equally as inept as the Bills offense from 2009--you may recall, the offense that led to AVP getting canned as Buf's OC the week before the season started. And their defense, (the one that lost Revis, Wilfork, Browner), to paraphrase a much earlier observation by Bart Scott "couldn't stop a nose bleed".

 

In about a quarter of game action last night, the Saints starters raced out to a 21-0 lead and absolutely embarrassed the Patriots. Yes, the Patriots eventually "won" the game, with the bottom of their roster putting up 12 points in the fourth quarter to salvage a 26-24 win. But make no mistake, this is NOT a talented Patriots team. If you factor in the likelihood that Tom Brady will have to play with regulation equipment this year, and other teams may be on a witch hunt to expose their cheating once and for all, meaning the organization may have to play by the rules outlined for the other 31 clubs... Dare I say the Patriots might be lucky to break .500?

 

As a thought experiment: Imagine a game against the Patriots where Brady throws the ball like he did against Kansas City, their offense turns the ball over at a clip equal to other NFL teams (both due to playing with balls inflated to legal PSI's). What would be the results? Likely similar to the first quarter of last night's game against New Orleans, which very much looked like a team with no talent, led by a 6th round QB, getting pancaked by a far superior Saints squad. Now imagine the push of our defensive line complicating things, or the Jets D line (Leonard Williams could win league MVP, forget rookie of the year), or the Dolphins D line with Suh.

 

Contrast that with the Bills, who finally... for once... look like a "modern" NFL team: Their defense is off the field quickly, their special teams are electric and create good field position, and the first team offense has been moving the ball fairly well--despite missing nearly their entire stable of skill players. The Bills have the look, demeanor, and general talent level to win 10 games with their eyes closed, and 12-14 wins seems very much in play.

 

When you factor in the Patriots other 4 games against tougher divisional opponents, not to mention a (possible) Brady suspension, it is damn hard to imagine that team winning more than 8 games.

 

 

The reason this is not true is that evil genius that coaches them always figures out what is wrong with their team and fixes it as the season goes on. So it really matters very little how bad they look in a pre-season game. Even if Brady sits all four games and they start 0-4, they probably will still win 10 or 11 of the remaining 12.

 

Their o-line was horrible at the start of last season...and remember how Brady was "in decline"...then what?

[Juice_32]

I just watched pats* v Saints on Game Pass. The pats* interior o-line looks rough. Really rough.

 

We definitely can not get too excited yet, but I am cautiously optimistic this could be the year they crumble.

[John from Riverside]

This team is biult to beat the patriots

 

but

 

They actually have to do it

[jeffismagic]

You know what is curious to me? Brady is pushing 38 and still playing like a man in his 20's. Nothing suspicious there. I mean Roger Clemens threw rockets late in his career. Not like he was juicing or anything. Just clean living.

 

HGH keeps one young. I have no idea what Brady is doing but for anyone that followed his college career, his arm is DIFFERENT now. He was drafted in the 6th round for a reason and that was his terrible arm. Even in his first few years in the league, Brady never threw more than 15 yards. 5 years later and he is now throwing all over the field. Another Patriot miracle.

[Best Player Available]

Wow, it's early this year, but, I'll give my annual response to the first pats are done thread that I've seen...

 

 

That (cheating) team has had its grave dug for the past 5 years and those demonic (cheating) coaches and (cheating) players continue to !@#$ing win and I !@#$ing hate it. They aren't dead until the last shovel is tossed on their collective (cheating) carcasses.

 

let it out, let it all out. it is healthy (i think). Sept 20 and i hope brady** is on the field too. it all begins then.

 

Then again I said this last season too. The JV win IMO did not count.

[PromoTheRobot]

I plan to be at that game. If Marcia plays I plan to hand out placards that say "CHEATER" and I will recruit captains in each section to lead a "CHEEE-TERRR" cheer the entire game. I want his ears to ring with that word.

[Fadingpain]

Tom Brady needs to get a lot older before this is even remotely plausible.

[ThurmasThoman]

I agree I have been posting on yahoo that the pats will be a .500 team bc their cheating is finally done and over. Other teams will be on their toes and aware. They will have contingencicy plans for playing the cheats. I think this will hurt them.

 

The pats always start slow and finish strong bc it takes them a while to build up their cheating database of info on teams. Their amazing halftime adjustments are from illegal spying on other teams communications and locker rooms. Without flat footballs they will turn it over more. Without a coach in his head I will be impossible for Brady to ALWayS find the open guy in the flat. Without these benefits the pats are screwed.

 

I couldn't agree more.

For clarifications sake, I should say that I did hear a rumor this week (and I brought this up in the Brady thread): the general gist was that the league found out early in the deflategate case that Beliceck was the man who should be primarily held accountable, as he orchestrated it with the equipment managers. However, because of spygate, the league knew that proper punishment (on shaky evidence) would be to permanently ban him from the league and strip him of his (and the Pats*) accomplishments. Because this move would be so unprecedented in the history of modern day sports, the league opted to make Brady the fall guy. Because he did not orchestrate the deflations (but still benefited from it, but that's an aside) he is fighting it tooth and nail to, rightfully, protect his legacy at the expense of the patriots fortunes. The pressure on the league, because of the fact that the Patriots are the culprits, is that someone affiliated with that organization should pay their pound of flesh. And the owners are well aware of this public demand, and are the main reason that Roger hasn't capitulated.

 

Anyways, sorry for the digression--it was discussed at length in the Brady thread--but my point in making this thread, and as it ties in with yours, is that these stories that are leaking this week (bugged locker rooms, conversations in hallways, etc.) paint a VERY clear picture that this "infraction" that the Patriots caused engendered some anger with certain parties within league circles... Mike Florio can try to spin that any way he likes, but teams essentially told on the Patriots to the league, and now players are speaking out. It all seems to add up to a season being played out where the Patriots have to "play by the rules".

And you can scoff at that as you wish, or insist that their cheating didn't give them an advantage--quite frankly, I don't want to have that discussion.

 

The facts are that they have routinely violated league rules, which for whatever reason, has really come home to roost with deflategate.

I think the stench around that organization is so strong in league circles that the piper is about to be paid, and I don't think it's going to be a very fun season for the Patriots. I would imagine behind closed doors there have been some owners meetings (sans Goodell) to figure out just what the hell Kraft is doing with his organization. It's making the league look ridiculous, and no matter how many PR firms he hires to dissuade his fellow owners from thinking that the comment sections don't matter, the fact is that the majority of 31 of 32 NFL fanbases think that the Patriots are crooks, and their wins are invalid. Considering the last decade and a half of NFL football has been defined by the Patriots, specifially Brady and Beliceck, this is an enormous problem for the league. Anything said by any owner or team official as it relates to deflategate should be taken as nothing more than positive PR--they are pushing a message to some extent in the public, but at the same time they are lowering the hammer on the organization by refusing to concede anything to Brady's camp.

Make no mistake, Kraft's organization has absolutely wounded the integrity of the game in the public's eye. The owners are a small group of billionaires whos primary concern is year over year net. They're not thinking wins and losses, theyre thinking bottom line. Kraft is treading on dangerous ground, and I expect a complete cleansing of his brand in the coming offseason. You can already see the beginning of it this year with the veterans they let go (on both sides of the ball) as well as the free agent visitors they had that refused to sign--stevie johnson, percy harvin, reggie bush, frank gore, andre johnson etc. in league circles, i would imagine the word is starting to spread that the patriots are going to tear it down and start over, and agents are warning clients looking for "one last shot at a ring" that new england isn't the place to sign.

 

as i mentioned in the brady thread, ill state it again here: the initial rumor i heard concluded with brady being disgusted with the organization for trying to make him jump on the grenade, and this will be his last season in new england, and belicecks last as well.

 

if you take all of that into account, and then also consider that their first team has looked completely overmatched and embarrassed in 2 straight preseason games, this might "finally" be the year when, playing by the rules, the 38 year old, 6th round quarterback who plays outdoors in cold weather, is unable to lead a team of ragamuffins and cast offs into the superbowl, due to fumbling at an equal rate to the rest of the league, and their 38 year old, 6th round quarterback throwing the ball at a lower velocity than the 24 year old athletic freaks of nature who populate the position around the rest of the league.

[3rdand12]

JohnnyG, i like your attitude.

But never never count those bastards out.

 

As John @ Hemet has mentioned Bills are built to beat the Pats***

Even Rex has said , more than once, its all about beating them.

 

that being said , i got a feeling we are better then they are finally. Because of coaching AND the players.

 

Go Bills.

Edited August 23, 2015 by 3rdand12

[starrymessenger]

I approve this message.

Don't know that I believe it tho.

[ThurmasThoman]

JohnnyG, i like your attitude.

But never never count those bastards out.

 

As John @ Hemet has mentioned Bills are built to beat the Pats***

Even Rex has said , more than once, its all about beating them.

 

that being said , i got a feeling we are better then they are finally. Because of coaching AND the players.

 

Go Bills.

 

I say this to you in all honesty brother: we are victims of trauma as Bills fans.

I don't mean this in the "ha ha" way, in which we dwell in our communal sorrows that only a true Bills fan can know.

I mean it in a very literal sense--as a fanbase, regarding the Patriots, we display many of the same characteristics of children with alcoholic parents. We ultimately justify their actions, and try to find fault in ourselves.

How bad are we, really? How good are they?

 

Take a look at our record, adjusted to what it would be over the course of Brady/Beliceck's reign atop the AFC East, if the results were reversed, and we beat them every time they beat us:

 

Season Modified Record Modified Result

2002 10-6 host wildcard

2003 7-9 DNQ

2004 11-5 road wild card

2005 7-9 DNQ

2006 9-7 road wild card

2007 9-7 DNQ

2008 9-7 DNQ

2009 8-8 DNQ

2010 6-10 DNQ

2011 7-9 DNQ

2012 8-8 DNQ

2013 8-8 DNQ

2014 10-6 road wild card

 

A disclaimer: No, I do not think it's practical to assume a win for every loss over the course of the Beliceck reign of dishonesty--this is merely meant to show the exponential impact that outcomes of divisional games can have on not only the season, but the legacy of a franchise.

 

Looking at them reversed shows a Bills team with Bledsoe that was pretty good--good enough to make the playoffs a couple of times.

The Losman/Edwards era, looked at without the lens of cheating in the way, yields a handful of middling seasons, on the outside looking in, with a wildcard game thrown in for good measure.

The Gaily/Fitz era looks like what it rightfully was: an aging owner in failing health, not overseeing the day to day operations of his company, and instead handing it off to his trusted advisors, who hold a tight budget and bring in marginal talent--Gailey and Marone. Those "dark days" would have been a measily 2-3 years, and the quality of football would have been in the 6-10, 7-9 range.

Those days give way to a new day, with Pegula stepping in--or certainly, word coming that the team was staying in Buffalo. Spending goes up, Whaley takes over, talent stays on the roster, bold draft decisions are made, the financial backing is in place, and the Bills are on the uptick, with the last 2 seasons seeing us playing .500 ball and above, and with last year's season ending with a road wild card game.

 

It would seem to lead into the notion that the Bills are trending up. And removing the stain of the Patriots when considering the recent history of the Bills lets us see that it's not necessarily an organization mired in a decade and a half of futility, but an organization who was never truly terrible, and had the talent to grab a wild card here and there over the past 10 years. An organization that now has stable ownership in place, and should turn into a perennial contender, like they were for the decade and a half before the Patriots infected our division with cheating.

 

What I mean to say is--we're not as bad as we think we are, because they're not as good as we think they are.

And that's what I mean when comparing us to the sons of alcoholics. We display the characteristics of the abused. Because we have been artificially held in place by a team that cheats for a decade and a half. We should have been good. Our eyes were not lying to us. Some of those teams were bad, yes, but some of them weren't. A team with Marshawn Lynch should be able to grab a wildcard, and they would have, if the Pats were removed from the picture.

And now, Bills football can return to what it always was, because I think the specter of cheating has been removed from the division.

 

I firmly believe that option has been revoked from them, by Kraft's fellow owners, forever. It has now made the league, the owners, the Commissioner, and the league's lawyers look ridiculous in the court of public opinion, while simultaneously having their Super Bowl winning franchise be mired in a cheating scandal all offseason. Any publicity may be good publicity, but please consider: 31 out of 32 fan bases are pissed as hell that the cheaters are champs. The league will look to correct this.

 

What I am saying is that Deflategate has finally brought the issue to an end. The Patriots crossed a line, and they are being tarred and feathered in the court of public opinion, and are about to pay the price as an organization--it's why Kraft dropped his little appeal song and dance so quickly, while Brady soldiers on. They are an organization divided, and the writing is on the wall. If you had a way to contact the agents for : Percy Harvin, Stevie Johnson, Frank Gore, Reggie Bush, Revis, Browner, or any other number of veteran free agents who have avoided the place like a plague while chasing a Super Bowl ring, I'm sure they would tell you the same thing. The final straw has been placed atop the camel's back, and now they will be laid bare. No, preseason results are not indicative of what's to come, but preseason performance is. They have looked bad. Very bad. It will be on at 430pm today, the NFL Network. All should watch.

And the Bills look like what they are too, what they've always been. A good Buffalo football team, built from the middle out. Ready to hit hard, and run the ball right down someones throat.

 

I want Brady's suspension overturned. I want him in Ralph Wilson Stadium week 2. It's going to be ugly. It will be the ceremonial "passing of the torch", a moment of catharsis for Bills fans. The gig is up, the piper will be paid, and the Bills will lay claim to the division September 20, 2015. They should paint the endzones red that weekend, so when we watch the highlights of it for years to come, we can associate with the only brand of Bills football we ever should have known: winning.

Edited August 23, 2015 by JohnnyGold

[3rdand12]

I love you.

seriously.

 

 

not in the funny way though

Hell yes

GO BILLS!

[White Linen]

Well they have to come down sometime. Whether it's a free fall now, a free fall later, or is it a gradual thing is the question - but it will happen.

[3rdand12]

Well they have to come down sometime. Whether it's a free fall now, a free fall later, or is it a gradual thing is the question - but it will happen.

Promise?