26CornerBlitz Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 He's got to have more than 1 or 2 TD's a game (always at end it seems). If he's going 3 and out and putting the defense on the field a lot teams are going to score 20+ on us. Therefore we lose 20-7 or 20-14. 1-2 good drives a game isn't going to cut it. A Qb has to sustain 4-6 drives per games for some points (FG or TD). Yep. That's why he's 0-14 in his NFL career as a starter.
VABills Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 Yep. That's why he's 0-14 in his NFL career as a starter. I never knew QB had WL records like pitchers. When did that happen?
26CornerBlitz Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 I never knew QB had WL records like pitchers. When did that happen? Pay attention then. Fairly or unfairly it's something that's tracked.
thebandit27 Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 I never knew QB had WL records like pitchers. When did that happen? Correct; QBs don't have win-loss records. Isn't it kind of weird, then, that they have completion percentages, since it takes another player catching the ball in order to have a completion? I think you understand the point that 26 is making.
Jasonp325 Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 How many QBs who've been coveted as backups after four years in the league have gone on to be great starters? We signed one of those. Brian Brohm. These guys are career backups for a reason. How many QBs who've been coveted as backups after four years in the league have gone on to be great starters? We signed one of those. Brian Brohm. These guys are career backups for a reason. There was also this guy you may have heard from, tom Brady......not saying tyrod will be one of those, but he's been a career backup because he has never been given an opportunity. Cassel on the other hand has, and he looks the part of career backup.
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 A free blitzer coming straight at him because of an inexperienced RB couldn't properly execute pass pro. Yeah that was EJ's fault. Just to be clear, I was agreeing with you. He had no chance on that play. EJ did everything he reasonably could: diagnosed the blitz, adjusted his protection assignments at the line...he just had a scrub who was supposed to pick up the blitz, and the result was predictable.
26CornerBlitz Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 Just to be clear, I was agreeing with you. He had no chance on that play. EJ did everything he reasonably could: diagnosed the blitz, adjusted his protection assignments at the line...he just had a scrub who was supposed to pick up the blitz, and the result was predictable. Sorry for that.
VABills Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 Correct; QBs don't have win-loss records. Isn't it kind of weird, then, that they have completion percentages, since it takes another player catching the ball in order to have a completion? I think you understand the point that 26 is making. Right. But the point of the matter is, if a QB only has 1-2 scoring drives per game we aren't going to win. Right now, that is all EJ has done and averaging what would be 6+ drives that end in a punt per game. TT on the other hand is averaging 4+ scoring drives and 2-3 drives that end in punts per game. Who is a better a) game manager and b) helping the defense and c) scoring at the same clip or more? The QB has no control over whether the kicker makes the FG, but as long as he is putting the kicker in a position to score he's done his job.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 Yeah, I worry about not stretching the field for a team that wants to run the ball. It is going to be tough to run the ball if there are always 8 or 9 guys in the box. That is think is the biggest concern with Cassel IMO. so why were we arguing? A free blitzer coming straight at him because of an inexperienced RB couldn't properly execute pass pro. Yeah that was EJ's fault. 4-8 in the Carolina game with at least two drops, no turnovers and the 51 yard beauty of a TD strike. 9-14 in the Cleveland game again with no turnovers and the game winning drive. How much better should he have performed given who he was put out there with? I guess he'll never do enough for some who'll only focus mistakes and completely ignore what he's progressing at such as improved accuracy and decision making as demonstrated in the 1st two preseason games. Amen brother. You won't change the minds of those whom you have described.
thebandit27 Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 Right. But the point of the matter is, if a QB only has 1-2 scoring drives per game we aren't going to win. Right now, that is all EJ has done and averaging what would be 6+ drives that end in a punt per game. TT on the other hand is averaging 4+ scoring drives and 2-3 drives that end in punts per game. Who is a better a) game manager and b) helping the defense and c) scoring at the same clip or more? The QB has no control over whether the kicker makes the FG, but as long as he is putting the kicker in a position to score he's done his job. I agree that EJ isn't the best choice for this team. That's why I only took issue with the idea that QBs do not have W/L records.
BuffaloMatt Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 OK, I like the nickname... T Mobile! I still like Drill Bit
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) Right. But the point of the matter is, if a QB only has 1-2 scoring drives per game we aren't going to win. Right now, that is all EJ has done and averaging what would be 6+ drives that end in a punt per game. TT on the other hand is averaging 4+ scoring drives and 2-3 drives that end in punts per game. Who is a better a) game manager and b) helping the defense and c) scoring at the same clip or more? The QB has no control over whether the kicker makes the FG, but as long as he is putting the kicker in a position to score he's done his job. I'll accept your drive numbers for EJ - (Correct me if I am wrong here) to start with, in 2 preseason games with EJ, the Offense scored 18 pts - 2 passing TD's, 1 Two pt conversion, 0 rushing TD's and 1 FG Carolina 10 points Cleveland 8 points (Correct me if I am wrong here) In 2 preseason games with TT, the Offense scored 17 pts, 0 passing and 0 rushing TD's, 2 rushing by other players, and 1 FG. --- You said QUOTE - TT is averaging 4+ scoring drives. Which scoring drive + did I miss? Carolina 14 points. Cleveland 3 points. and just to be all inclusive In 1 preseason games with MC, the Offense scored 6 pts (??), 0 passing and 0 rushing TD's. How many scoring drives has MC had? Edited August 26, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
BuffaloHokie13 Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 I'll accept your drive numbers for EJ - (Correct me if I am wrong here) to start with, in 2 preseason games with EJ, the Offense scored 18 pts - 2 passing TD's, 1 Two pt conversion, 0 rushing TD's and 1 FG Carolina 10 points Cleveland 8 points (Correct me if I am wrong here) In 2 preseason games with TT, the Offense scored 17 pts, 0 passing and 0 rushing TD's, 2 rushing by other players, and 1 FG. --- You said QUOTE - TT is averaging 4+ scoring drives. Which scoring drive + did I miss? Carolina 14 points. Cleveland 3 points. and just to be all inclusive In 1 preseason games with MC, the Offense scored 6 pts (??), 0 passing and 0 rushing TD's. How many scoring drives has MC had? In regards to Tyrod, I think he counted the missed FG in the Cleveland game by saying it wasn't Tyrod's responsibility to make the kick. And Cassel has had 2 possessions which led to 1 missed chip shot FG by Gay.
NickelCity Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 This notion of extrapolating number of scoring drives is a bit dubious, but hey, preseason is what it is. EJ does seem to yield a lot of 3 and outs / punts, but I've absolutely seen the progression this offseason and want to keep him (and I'm convinced we will). That said, its appeared obvious to me that tyrod has that offense humming. In command, throwing it nicely, picking up yardage when the play is broken or read option. I'm not as concerned about the TDs, whether they were drops or not. With our skill players healthy and mccoy in the backfield, I'd be reasonably optimistic about our redzone performance. It seems to me that tyrod would get us into the red zone more often than the other guys.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 so why were we arguing? I'm not arguing with you. None of the guys are perfect but they are all a little better than we could have hoped for a month ago. That's a good thing.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 I'm not arguing with you. None of the guys are perfect but they are all a little better than we could have hoped for a month ago. That's a good thing. that was meant as a joke to previous discussions. In regards to Tyrod, I think he counted the missed FG in the Cleveland game by saying it wasn't Tyrod's responsibility to make the kick. And Cassel has had 2 possessions which led to 1 missed chip shot FG by Gay. to start off - I am not ridiculing Tyrod in any way. WRT the post - granted that still only adds up to 4 drives, not 4+ that lead to a (potential) score. again unless I missed something else. Tyrod's first drive was very good, he also had another very good drive later in the game, but in between... It's football and preseason. IIRC The Bills missed 2 FG's that I can recall. 1 was off the post the other blocked (hand). All in all, none of the QB's deserve harsh criticism for the last 2 preseason games.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 to start off - I am not ridiculing Tyrod in any way. WRT the post - granted that still only adds up to 4 drives, not 4+ that lead to a (potential) score. again unless I missed something else. Tyrod's first drive was very good, he also had another very good drive later in the game, but in between... It's football and preseason. IIRC The Bills missed 2 FG's that I can recall. 1 was off the post the other blocked (hand). All in all, none of the QB's deserve harsh criticism for the last 2 preseason games. Agreed on all fronts. I wasn't really defending the post so much as trying to connect the dots. I've been consistent with how I've tried to present the preseason stats myself (points vs possessions), but all in all the stats are pretty pointless.
Rubes Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 Who is a better a) game manager and b) helping the defense and c) scoring at the same clip or more? The QB has no control over whether the kicker makes the FG, but as long as he is putting the kicker in a position to score he's done his job. Except for the fact that Carpenter most likely would have made the FG if it were not for a bad sack that TT took on 3rd down instead of throwing it away, pushing the attempt back significantly. TT did a nice job moving the ball down the field on that drive, for certain, but it's not like he didn't make some important mistakes, like the above, that potentially cost them points.
major Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 Is Rex going to pull an old college football coaching approach and play all three QB'S in each game?
reddogblitz Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 Is Rex going to pull an old college football coaching approach and play all three QB'S in each game? If Tyrod isn't he starter, he'll play at least 2.
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