Doc Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 If EJ has the career Cassel has had, I'll eat my hat. That's the point. Give him 10 years in the league. Fair enough. But would you agree that despite all the great coaching that Cassel has had from every coach at every stop in his ten year career, that it's not too much to ask EJ Manuel to go out and beat Matt Cassel for a starting job in his third year as a pro? I think you'd agree that there have not been a lot of NFL QB's that couldn't beat out a guy like Matt Cassel in their third season and then went on to have a great career after that. There's been a lot of backpeddling on EJ around here. Back in the Spring, even the EJ supporters were like, "hey if EJ can't beat out Matt Cassel then I think that might be all she wrote" and now the narrative seems to be "well if EJ doesn't beat out Matt Cassel it's because his development was stunted by poor coaching." What's it gonna be next year? Yes I would say it's too much to ask EJ to go out and beat a 10-year vet who has been better coached than he has. But I'm not looking for him to clearly beat him, just show he's improving and close to Cassel, and the same goes for Taylor, because in that case, I'd go with the younger guy. From what I've seen, and given the amount of time the QB's have gotten with the 1st team, I'd go with Taylor, but definitely keep EJ. I see starting Cassel as spinning wheels and leaving the Bills in the same position next year, maybe even worse if Cassel manages to stay healthy, puts up pedestrian numbers like he has, and demands to be paid in the 8 figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Give him 10 years in the league. Yes I would say it's too much to ask EJ to go out and beat a 10-year vet who has been better coached than he has. But I'm not looking for him to clearly beat him, just show he's improving and close to Cassel, and the same goes for Taylor, because in that case, I'd go with the younger guy. From what I've seen, and given the amount of time the QB's have gotten with the 1st team, I'd go with Taylor, but definitely keep EJ. I see starting Cassel as spinning wheels and leaving the Bills in the same position next year, maybe even worse if Cassel manages to stay healthy, puts up pedestrian numbers like he has, and demands to be paid in the 8 figures. If EJ lasts 10 years in the league, I'll eat my hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I don't follow that logic. Either something was told in confidence, in which case you shouldn't be divulging the source(and possibly the information) to anybody.....or it wasn't told in confidence, in which case you can tell whomever you want. Telling a hanful of strangers from an internet forum the information is not maintaining any form of confidentiality. I know I'm a born moderate because I can always see both sides . I don't think those are the only choices - something could be shared, not in confidence, but not to be published as attributed to that source. In which case there's a difference between sharing the source of the information with someone else privately, possibly under promise of confidentiality, vs. airing it publically on an internet forum. I agree that when strangers are involved, one can't completely know whose word is good, but one can probably have a fair idea. In any case, the information is Metz's to share how he wishes and everyone else's to believe or not. If it isn't sourced off the internet, there's no link to be shared and it's churlish for some posters to keep demanding a link that doesn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) Give him 10 years in the league. Yes I would say it's too much to ask EJ to go out and beat a 10-year vet who has been better coached than he has. But I'm not looking for him to clearly beat him, just show he's improving and close to Cassel, and the same goes for Taylor, because in that case, I'd go with the younger guy. From what I've seen, and given the amount of time the QB's have gotten with the 1st team, I'd go with Taylor, but definitely keep EJ. I see starting Cassel as spinning wheels and leaving the Bills in the same position next year, maybe even worse if Cassel manages to stay healthy, puts up pedestrian numbers like he has, and demands to be paid in the 8 figures. How far can we lower the bar for EJ? A guy drafted in the 1st round with supposedly a ton of talent and potential and yet it's too much to ask for him beat out 2 backups in his 3rd year in the league? These days he gets praised for just looking good against fringe NFL players. We're witnessing guys like Dan Orlovsky, Kirk Cousins and Luke McCown put up elite numbers against players like that and nobody bats an eye at it. But since it's EJ looking competent against these same kind of players then we should all tip our hats. Edited August 23, 2015 by Bangarang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 How far can we lower the bar for EJ? A guy drafted in the 1st round with supposedly a ton of talent and potential and yet it's too much to ask for him beat out 2 backups in his 3rd year in the league? These days he gets praised for just looking good against fringe NFL players. We're witnessing guys like Dan Orlovsky, Kirk Cousins and Luke McCown put up elite numbers against players like that and nobody bats an eye at it. But since it's EJ looking competent against these same kind of players then we should all tip our hats. Thank you. I really mean that. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 How far can we lower the bar for EJ? A guy drafted in the 1st round with supposedly a ton of talent and potential and yet it's too much to ask for him beat out 2 backups in his 3rd year in the league? These days he gets praised for just looking good against fringe NFL players. We're witnessing guys like Dan Orlovsky, Kirk Cousins and Luke McCown put up elite numbers against players like that and nobody bats an eye at it. But since it's EJ looking competent against these same kind of players then we should all tip our hats. I think it is a little more complicated then that (and I am not saying EJ should start just to get that out of the way) Yes when you are working against 3rd stringers you should be playing well (and he is) But keep in mind that he also has future grocery shelf stockers on his side of the ball as well......the OL play in my eyes drops way off from 1st to 2nd string.....and when your STARTER has no starting RBs and WRs to work with just imagine the level of play of the players EJ has at HIS disposal I have been very suprised and happy with EJ's play in the pre season.....all you can ask for is that he show improvement and play well Given that he is in a cheap rookie contract I think it might be plausible that Rex and company look at EJ as a developmental qb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 If EJ lasts 10 years in the league, I'll eat my hat. What are we talking here? Standard ball cap, fedora, kangol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) I think it is a little more complicated then that (and I am not saying EJ should start just to get that out of the way) Yes when you are working against 3rd stringers you should be playing well (and he is) But keep in mind that he also has future grocery shelf stockers on his side of the ball as well......the OL play in my eyes drops way off from 1st to 2nd string.....and when your STARTER has no starting RBs and WRs to work with just imagine the level of play of the players EJ has at HIS disposal I have been very suprised and happy with EJ's play in the pre season.....all you can ask for is that he show improvement and play well Given that he is in a cheap rookie contract I think it might be plausible that Rex and company look at EJ as a developmental qb I think, well IMO, the problem is, why are you or fans surprised? He's playing against fringe NFL players, shouldn't EJ just be expected to play competently? Unless you think EJ is so bad that there is no way he'd look good in any situation. I expect EJ to preform well against the talent he's facing. It's surprise when a player you didn't expect to be any good goes out and plays well. Taylor came out against backups in the Carolina game and led 2 very convincing TD drives. He made it look relatively easy. Edited August 23, 2015 by Wayne Cubed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) Pet peeve: "future grocery baggers, shelf stockers, fry cook..." Just say "fringe NFL players" - that's what they are. Many also have degrees and career options outside football. Sorry, it just drives me crazy! Edited August 23, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) Pet peeve: "future grocery baggers, shelf stockers, fry cook..." Just say "fringe NFL players" - that's what they are. Many also have degrees and career options outside football. Sorry, it just drives me crazy! I often talk about my buddy that was a fringe NFL player (7 teams in 6 years). He is 35 now in medical device sales making $200k+. P.s. That's the most fired up I have ever seen you on this board. Edited August 23, 2015 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 What are we talking here? Standard ball cap, fedora, kangol? Stetson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 He posted a pic of himself in the draft room. He sure did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 How far can we lower the bar for EJ? A guy drafted in the 1st round with supposedly a ton of talent and potential and yet it's too much to ask for him beat out 2 backups in his 3rd year in the league? These days he gets praised for just looking good against fringe NFL players. We're witnessing guys like Dan Orlovsky, Kirk Cousins and Luke McCown put up elite numbers against players like that and nobody bats an eye at it. But since it's EJ looking competent against these same kind of players then we should all tip our hats. None of which had one tenth of the pressure that EJ had. Performing under pressure is one of the most important traits of an NFL QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 None of which had one tenth of the pressure that EJ had. Performing under pressure is one of the most important traits of an NFL QB. And you're telling me you watched all of their preseason performances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I often talk about my buddy that was a fringe NFL player (7 teams in 6 years). He is 35 now in medical device sales making $200k+. P.s. That's the most fired up I have ever seen you on this board. i also get fired up about Matthew Mulligan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 And you're telling me you watched all of their preseason performances? They were under zero pressure compared to EJ. If you don't realize there being a big difference then we have nothing to discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 They were under zero pressure compared to EJ. If you don't realize there being a big difference then we have nothing to discuss. So have you watched all of their preseason performances or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I often talk about my buddy that was a fringe NFL player (7 teams in 6 years). He is 35 now in medical device sales making $200k+. P.s. That's the most fired up I have ever seen you on this board. he very nearly raised his voice. i saw it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 None of which had one tenth of the pressure that EJ had. Performing under pressure is one of the most important traits of an NFL QB. EJ is the only QB to play through adversity or less than ideal conditions. It's embarrassing to hear some of the excuses or rationale that gets tossed around for this kid. Before it was all Marrone's fault. Now that Marrone is gone it's something else. Just like every week EJ becomes more and more of a project. Before training camp it was the same "he was always supposed to sit for a year or 2 to develop". Now people are talking about him needing more time to sit and learn. This kid is going to sit his entire rookie contract and people are going to pretend like it was part of the plan. He did not live up to the hype and people keep making more and more excuses trying to hold onto whatever little hope is left that he will turn into a good QB. He's just not good enough and this is the 2nd coaching staff that's coming to the same conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 So have you watched all of their preseason performances or not? No I didn't, but then I frankly don't care if they threw for four TDs in one quarter. Performing under no pressure in the NFL vs under pressure is a gigantic difference. All those guys are established backup QBs who know their place and who had no chance of being cut. Like I said, if you don't realize this difference then we have nothing to talk about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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