Jon in Pasadena Posted August 20, 2015 Author Posted August 20, 2015 The point was that it's a scam, the point was how easy it is for such scam artists to get tax exemption status. Thank you. I'm amazed (and a little bit scared, frankly) that this point wasn't obvious to everyone.
Deranged Rhino Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 Oh no? http://youtu.be/5ea5jKFGgUw Touche!
Acantha Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 Thank you. I'm amazed (and a little bit scared, frankly) that this point wasn't obvious to everyone. Really? You knew the tax code and rules behind becoming a tax except religion? And think that everyone does?
Jon in Pasadena Posted August 20, 2015 Author Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) Really? You knew the tax code and rules behind becoming a tax except religion? And think that everyone does? I.Knew.It.After.Watching.The.Video. EDIT: In my reply to TRBJ, "this point" refers to the point TRBJ is making. Sorry if that was unclear. Edited August 20, 2015 by Jon in Pasadena
The Dean Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 If stupid people want to waste money then good for them. I can't blame someone for knowing how to take advantage of the dumb for some money. That is what life is about. I'll wait until you have parents with dementia/Alzheimer's and/or a member of the family who has a mental disability. And I pity you if you think "that is what life is all about". I will just say one thing, and hope this doesn't bring the thread to PPP. How does treating religions like any other business, and taxing them accordingly, violate the First Amendment? There would be fewer decisions to make about what is a "legit" religion and there would be freedom for every one of them. But like any business, they have to pay their taxes---NO DISCRIMINATION. If they are a non-profit, then treat them like any other non-profit. Want to give all religions a special tax rate? Fine. But doesn't offering only recognized religions tax-exempt status make them MORE involved with gov't regulation? I understand we give a religious exemption to almost anyone who applies, but some decisions are being made. Taxing all religions equally is more step with the 1st Amendment, IMO.
4merper4mer Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) I'll wait until you have parents with dementia/Alzheimer's and/or a member of the family who has a mental disability. And I pity you if you think "that is what life is all about". I will just say one thing, and hope this doesn't bring the thread to PPP. How does treating religions like any other business, and taxing them accordingly, violate the First Amendment? There would be fewer decisions to make about what is a "legit" religion and there would be freedom for every one of them. But like any business, they have to pay their taxes---NO DISCRIMINATION. If they are a non-profit, then treat them like any other non-profit. Want to give all religions a special tax rate? Fine. But doesn't offering only recognized religions tax-exempt status make them MORE involved with gov't regulation? I understand we give a religious exemption to almost anyone who applies, but some decisions are being made. Taxing all religions equally is more step with the 1st Amendment, IMO. Why not just give all of everyone's money to the government? Edited August 21, 2015 by 4merper4mer
The Dean Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Why not just give all of everyone's money to the government? Not sure I understand the comment. But when one party makes money from another, there is typically a tax involved. Why does having this same procedure with all religions discriminate against any one of them? I know some of you are against all taxes (but still like to drive on roads, have police protection, the military, etc) but c'mon. Taxes are a part of any 1st world modern society.
LeviF Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 I'll wait until you have parents with dementia/Alzheimer's and/or a member of the family who has a mental disability. And I pity you if you think "that is what life is all about". I will just say one thing, and hope this doesn't bring the thread to PPP. How does treating religions like any other business, and taxing them accordingly, violate the First Amendment? There would be fewer decisions to make about what is a "legit" religion and there would be freedom for every one of them. But like any business, they have to pay their taxes---NO DISCRIMINATION. If they are a non-profit, then treat them like any other non-profit. Want to give all religions a special tax rate? Fine. But doesn't offering only recognized religions tax-exempt status make them MORE involved with gov't regulation? I understand we give a religious exemption to almost anyone who applies, but some decisions are being made. Taxing all religions equally is more step with the 1st Amendment, IMO. The SCOTUS has spoken on the issue. Basically, the court believes that tax exemption for churches involves far less involvement between church and state than would taxing them. For example, if the government can tax churches, it can penalize them when they default, thus endangering free exercise of religion if the clause is read broadly (and the court has, historically, read it broadly).
The Dean Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 The SCOTUS has spoken on the issue. Basically, the court believes that tax exemption for churches involves far less involvement between church and state than would taxing them. For example, if the government can tax churches, it can penalize them when they default, thus endangering free exercise of religion if the clause is read broadly (and the court has, historically, read it broadly). I understand what has been decided in the past. I just disagree.
4merper4mer Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Not sure I understand the comment. But when one party makes money from another, there is typically a tax involved. Why does having this same procedure with all religions discriminate against any one of them? I know some of you are against all taxes (but still like to drive on roads, have police protection, the military, etc) but c'mon. Taxes are a part of any 1st world modern society. Churches have no owners whether sole proprietor, partner or stockholders to whom they distribute profits. They don't have profits in the traditional sense. How would you tax them? Just take their money? Real healthy for a society. Let's tax charities too.
The Dean Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Churches have no owners whether sole proprietor, partner or stockholders to whom they distribute profits. They don't have profits in the traditional sense. How would you tax them? Just take their money? Real healthy for a society. Let's tax charities too. Tax charities, if they aren't non-profit! The Catholic Church, for one, is very profitable. (I'm Roman Catholic, just so you know.) As I said, if they are non-profit treat them like non-profits. What does God have to do with it? And I stil don't understand where the "give all of everyone's money to the government' comment comes from. It has NOTHING to do with what I posted.
Marv's Neighbor Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 John Oliver is pretty funny, but aren't televangelists a passe target? I don't think anyone's eyes are going to be opened by an expose on televangelists. Jim and Tammy Fay pretty much blew the lid off all that 30 years ago. I think Jim is still on TV somewhere. Maybe he's "rehabilitated?"
LeviF Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 I understand what has been decided in the past. I just disagree. On what basis? The power to tax involves the power to destroy. Exemption is the best way to ensure free exercise of religion for everyone. It wouldn't be "more in step with the 1st Amendment" to tax all churches. It would run directly against the free exercise clause.
The Dean Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 On what basis? The power to tax involves the power to destroy. Exemption is the best way to ensure free exercise of religion for everyone. It wouldn't be "more in step with the 1st Amendment" to tax all churches. It would run directly against the free exercise clause. "The power to tax involves the power to destroy". So we're going with slogans in this discussion? OK, here's mine: "Freedom isn't free. It costs folks like you and me...Freedom costs a buck 'o five"
LeviF Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 "The power to tax involves the power to destroy". So we're going with slogans in this discussion? OK, here's mine: "Freedom isn't free. It costs folks like you and me...Freedom costs a buck 'o five" Slogans? It's from McCulloch vs. Maryland (another USSC case about taxation), and entirely relevant to the conversation. Team America, while always welcome, is not.
Cugalabanza Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 John Oliver is a very funny guy. I love his show.
billsfan89 Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Love John Oliver. with Jon Stewart off the air and Colbert doing a new type of show, Oliver might be the best political satirist on TV.
Chef Jim Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Not sure I understand the comment. But when one party makes money from another, there is typically a tax involved. Why does having this same procedure with all religions discriminate against any one of them? I know some of you are against all taxes (but still like to drive on roads, have police protection, the military, etc) but c'mon. Taxes are a part of any 1st world modern society. Point out which of us are against all taxes.
FireChan Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) Tax charities, if they aren't non-profit! The Catholic Church, for one, is very profitable. (I'm Roman Catholic, just so you know.) As I said, if they are non-profit treat them like non-profits. What does God have to do with it? And I stil don't understand where the "give all of everyone's money to the government' comment comes from. It has NOTHING to do with what I posted. Can you really play the "you're misrepresenting my argument" card when you claimed some of us are against all taxes even though we drive on roads? Edited August 21, 2015 by FireChan
The Dean Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 Point out which of us are against all taxes. Are you suggesting you know for certain NOBODY on this board is against all taxes? There are several groups in the USA who preach just that (some of them "religious" groups). Now I admit, I don't know for certain there are any hear who believe that. But just as I don't know for certain any here are gay (or albino for that matter) I just assume a few here probably are. I could be wrong. Why did you feel the necessity to pop in? Did you feel like you were suspect? A response to suggesting some tax on profitable religious organizations was met with the response of "Why not give everyone's money to the government" as if that was an in-kind rebuttal. And the idea some might believe all taxes should be abolished really isn't that far fetched (even though, to me, it seems like it should be). Apparently we have someone who believes it's OK to scam money from dumb people. After all "that's what life is all about". Can you really play the "you're misrepresenting my argument" card when you claimed some of us are against all taxes even though we drive on roads? What? I have no idea what you are getting at. If you are against all taxes, but like roads, I'd say you have some rethinking to do. I didn't say you thought that. Again, why did you feel the need to pop in? Did it seem like I was talking about you?
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