John from Riverside Posted August 15, 2015 Posted August 15, 2015 So just to make sure I understand Revis is the best DB in the game Gilmore needs to be at Revis level to be considered "elite" OK?
dave mcbride Posted August 15, 2015 Posted August 15, 2015 Yes, and drafting Whitner was a smart move too because he is "good," right? Using your top resources on running backs and defensive backs is a sure fire ticket to losing, UNLESS your key positions are in place. There IS good news....the season is about to start and this roster is chock full of talented players. For the first time in years I have a feeling that we will make the playoffs. The other good news is that I get the feeling that the residue of the damage that Levy/Jauron did to this team is finally all but faded. GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Agreed about safeties, but completely disagree about CBs. Don't confuse the relative importance and difficulty of the two positions.
CNY315 Posted August 15, 2015 Posted August 15, 2015 So just to make sure I understand Revis is the best DB in the game Gilmore needs to be at Revis level to be considered "elite" OK? fans are silly
dave mcbride Posted August 15, 2015 Posted August 15, 2015 (edited) If Gilmore doesn't come out crapping his pants in September it will be the first time in his career he's played well early in a season. He just can't seem to get his sh*t together early on and it usually comes down to him just not finishing plays. it's like this.......if you can't get your head around to make a play on the football you aren't doing your job as a CB. I can excuse Terrence Trent Darby last night....he was set aflame by the atrocious Derek Anderson but he is a rookie and nobody is pretending he didn't arrive ball-blind.......but exceptional players finish plays. I have no doubt Gilmore will be playing good football in November/December but this team opens up against Andrew Luck, and possibly week 2 against Tom Brady. Gilmore being close enough to stare deeply into the receivers eyes isn't going to matter to those guys. They will back-shoulder and jump ball his sh*t like he isn't even there if he doesn't finish. I thought for sure that a contract year would bring the fight out of him but he's yet to prove he isn't just a talented clock-puncher out there. Um ... he was playing one armed in the first part of 2013, and indeed missed the first few games. However, he played great near the end of the season. Saying he didn't play well early in the season because that's not his thing doesn't factor into the context and is therefore unconvincing. You're right about last year, however: http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-3/Strong-second-half-has-Stephon-Gilmore-on-the-ascent/98cccdc1-96d0-4075-af4b-53b3149e7dfb. That said, be fairer in your argumentation about 2013. You're skewing the facts if you include that one in order to make an argument about habitual early season softness. Anyway, he's a good player who has gotten better. I expect a big year from him. Bill feels about CBs the way the African American community feels about the Ferguson police force. I kid. Bill doesn't have CBs, he just has absolutely no respect for them. Ha. Bill also regularly conflates safeties and CBs, which is akin to conflating guards and tackles. Edited August 15, 2015 by dave mcbride
timtebow15 Posted August 15, 2015 Posted August 15, 2015 Gilmore has potential to be very good but his style worries me. Of course if he played for the Seahawks two years ago he would have been fine because they held on every play. But he has to adjust. He doesn't give up a ton of catches but will be called for way too many penalties and many are needless. Revis didn't do that so you couldn't go after him. I'd go after Gilmore just because he'll draw so many flags.
BADOLBILZ Posted August 15, 2015 Posted August 15, 2015 Um ... he was playing one armed in the first part of 2013, and indeed missed the first few games. However, he played great near the end of the season. Saying he didn't play well early in the season because that's not his thing doesn't factor in the context and is therefore unconvincing. You're right about last year, however: http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-3/Strong-second-half-has-Stephon-Gilmore-on-the-ascent/98cccdc1-96d0-4075-af4b-53b3149e7dfb. That said, be fairer in your argumentation about 2013. You're skewing the facts to make an argument if you include that one in order to make an argument about habitual early season softness. Anyway, he's a good player who has gotten better. I expect a big year from him. And he started out poorly in 2012 and finished strong as well! That's why people were expecting a big start in 2013. Again in 2014. Is three years a trend in an NFL career? YOU are the one skewing the facts by omitting 2012. As for the cast......I have never seen so much made of so little. It's not like he's a 90 pound weakling carrying a cinder block in coverage. This is a BIG dude with a light cast on his wrist being asked to run and jump.....and maybe even turn his head and raise his arms above it on occasion? The guy has just shown lapses early in each of his first 3 seasons that the exceptional ones do not. This preseason has started just like those preseasons did for him so there is reason to question whether he is learning from his past or not. He doesn't just get beaten by great routes and he doesn't get beaten exclusively by top receivers. Sometimes he simply doesn't finish and that makes no sense at a position usually stocked by the most competitive guys in the league.
vincec Posted August 15, 2015 Posted August 15, 2015 Gilmore is not a "lockdown corner" who will take away the opponent's best WR but he is a good, solid starting CB so I don't see any reason to bash him. He is certainly not going to be a problem this season.
timtebow15 Posted August 15, 2015 Posted August 15, 2015 Gilmore is not a "lockdown corner" who will take away the opponent's best WR but he is a good, solid starting CB so I don't see any reason to bash him. He is certainly not going to be a problem this season.Except in this particular defense he might be a problem.
BADOLBILZ Posted August 15, 2015 Posted August 15, 2015 I agree he started slowly last season, but you make it seem like it's a conscious decision on his part. Is it his level of compete, or inability to turn his head? Each post of yours details a new flaw of his. I was kidding, but if I didn't know better I'd think getting that 3rd for him would be a steal. First preseason game dude, first game! I am aware that you are joking. That's the sarcasm common of the "we're doooooomed" crowd. They are too casual to care....wagging their sassy b*tch fingers in your face like Geno v IK all offseason....... until they collapse to the floor of TSW in tears asking why God has cursed them and their Bills. It's a pathetic sight. I have seen some of the most casual offseason-ers on here ponder their existence each of the last 15 Octobers so I really could use a break from it this year. Please, Tyrod.....just for one full season....that's all I ask. And no, I didn't say Gilmore CAN'T turn his head. The guy who was reportedly ball-blind is Darby. You are getting confused. Hey, it's preseason for you too. Gilmore just doesn't always finish. It's the preseason but he has struggled every preseason and it has carried into September every time. Check out the TD he gave up to Benjamin last preseason if you want to see a CB have tight coverage and then just give up on a play at the end because he thought the play must be over. That's why a guy like Stephen Hill has a Gilmore pelt on his very sparse TD wall. You can't take the end of the play off in the NFL and be one of the best.
YoloinOhio Posted August 15, 2015 Posted August 15, 2015 Is he supposed to be Revis? If he's just "Gilmore," it's ok. Revis makes 20m/yr for a reason.
dave mcbride Posted August 15, 2015 Posted August 15, 2015 (edited) And he started out poorly in 2012 and finished strong as well! That's why people were expecting a big start in 2013. Again in 2014. Is three years a trend in an NFL career? YOU are the one skewing the facts by omitting 2012. As for the cast......I have never seen so much made of so little. It's not like he's a 90 pound weakling carrying a cinder block in coverage. This is a BIG dude with a light cast on his wrist being asked to run and jump.....and maybe even turn his head and raise his arms above it on occasion? The guy has just shown lapses early in each of his first 3 seasons that the exceptional ones do not. This preseason has started just like those preseasons did for him so there is reason to question whether he is learning from his past or not. He doesn't just get beaten by great routes and he doesn't get beaten exclusively by top receivers. Sometimes he simply doesn't finish and that makes no sense at a position usually stocked by the most competitive guys in the league. Enh. I put little stock in rookie seasons for cbs. Very little when you're talking about the first few games of a rookie season. Even less when it's the first game of his career (i.e., stephen hill). I expect him to be excellent this year. He was one of the best cbs in the nfl in the second half of last season. Edited August 15, 2015 by dave mcbride
3rdand12 Posted August 15, 2015 Posted August 15, 2015 I still hope Leo gets back ASAP. He's solid. Leo and Gilmore and Robey and Darby would be fearsome Rex and Thurman would be in their heaven. Gilmore is a weird dude But he can ball. I loathe the continual comparison to Revis. and islands. He has improved every year IMO. Gilmore and Leodis were having a nice year last year and made the defense look very good overall till the ankle injury
Buffaloed in Pa Posted August 15, 2015 Posted August 15, 2015 Is he supposed to be Revis? If he's just "Gilmore," it's ok. Revis makes 20m/yr for a reason. That`s dead on. I`ll take him.
3rdand12 Posted August 15, 2015 Posted August 15, 2015 (edited) Very true. Also, Rex's defense is also dependent on getting pressure on the QB from multiple looks...which we saw very little of last night. I think I counted maybe 2-3 blitzes from the first team defense. When the quarterback doesn't know where the rush is coming from, and had less than 2 seconds to make a decision, the DB's aren't "put on an island" for that long. they are more dependant on disrupting the route and timing. So Gilmore is a good fit. No man is an Island. thats why God Made safeties Except in this particular defense he might be a problem. why would Thurman allow that to happen? that would be silly to this whole thread. ? Edited August 15, 2015 by 3rdand12
Bill from NYC Posted August 16, 2015 Posted August 16, 2015 (edited) Agreed about safeties, but completely disagree about CBs. Don't confuse the relative importance and difficulty of the two positions. You surprise me. You think that I don't know the difference between corners and safeties? Sure, let's pretend this is true. In 2008, the Bills drafted CORNER BACK Leodis McKelvin at #11. Well, the next selection at 12 was Ryan Clady. Branden Albert went at 15, and someone named Joe Flacco went at 18. Great choice right? I mean after all, McKelvin is a corner, not a safety. My point is and has been that ignorant, mindless moves such as these are directly responsible for the lack of playoffs for 15 years. We can pretend otherwise and point at certain wasted picks and say that the players are "good," but it doesn't change our dismal record. http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/years/2008 And btw, I believe that safeties are actually becoming more important in the league as time passes. Edited August 16, 2015 by Bill from NYC
thebandit27 Posted August 16, 2015 Posted August 16, 2015 You surprise me. You think that I don't know the difference between corners and safeties? Sure, let's pretend this is true. In 2008, the Bills drafted CORNER BACK Leodis McKelvin at #11. Well, the next selection at 12 was Ryan Clady. Branden Albert went at 15, and someone named Joe Flacco went at 18. Great choice right? I mean after all, McKelvin is a corner, not a safety. My point is and has been that ignorant, mindless moves such as these are directly responsible for the lack of playoffs for 15 years. We can pretend otherwise and point at certain wasted picks and say that the players are "good," but it doesn't change our dismal record. http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/years/2008 And btw, I believe that safeties are actually becoming more important in the league as time passes. To call the drafting of Gilmore--who one only needs to watch the Green Bay and Denver games from last season to see is a very good CB--an ignorant/mindless selection is simply wrong. The team got the best LT in that draft 29 picks later, which was your primary point of contention with the pick at that time (I remember), and still got a very good player at 10. People that target Gilmore as a problem are way missing the forest for the trees. As I said: when he becomes the team's biggest problem I expext we'll be hoisting a Lombardi trophy
dave mcbride Posted August 16, 2015 Posted August 16, 2015 (edited) You surprise me. You think that I don't know the difference between corners and safeties? Sure, let's pretend this is true.In 2008, the Bills drafted CORNER BACK Leodis McKelvin at #11. Well, the next selection at 12 was Ryan Clady. Branden Albert went at 15, and someone named Joe Flacco went at 18. Great choice right? I mean after all, McKelvin is a corner, not a safety.My point is and has been that ignorant, mindless moves such as these are directly responsible for the lack of playoffs for 15 years. We can pretend otherwise and point at certain wasted picks and say that the players are "good," but it doesn't change our dismal record.http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/years/2008And btw, I believe that safeties are actually becoming more important in the league as time passes.I'm not here to defend the MCKelvin pick (although I don't think it was a horrible pick). Rather, I'm talking about cbs in general. For instance, is Joe Haden more valuable than the o-linemen drafted after him--mike iupati, anthony davis, and brian bulaga? I'd rather have Haden than any of those players. But that's just me. Who would you rather have -- PAtrick Peterson or Tyron Smith? It's not a simple or easy choice. Edited August 16, 2015 by dave mcbride
MarkAF43 Posted August 16, 2015 Posted August 16, 2015 Didn't Gilmore rate out as like the 8th best CB in the league last year? Not sure where I saw that but that number is sticking in my head for some reason.
K D Posted August 16, 2015 Posted August 16, 2015 it was pretty obvious our biggest hole on defense on friday was the CB's. they were throwing deep go routes for fun vs them. they were in position but they don't know how to go up and fight for the ball. they were flat footed and didn't know where the ball was. i know this is something Donnie Henderson stresses to them so hopefully they can get it turned around (literally) in time for the season.
Recommended Posts