dave mcbride Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/08/13/ik-enemkpal-buffalo-bills-signing-nfl 6. I think scrambling yards need to be counted as passing yards. This has occurred to me more and more as I’ve read back through my 2014 film notes to write the team-by-team previews for this site. Most scrambles come on passing downs, out of a passing formation, against a pass defense and on a called pass play. The play just happens to end with the quarterback running. Counting scrambles as rushing yards is not unlike counting run-after-catch yards as rushing yards. And if a quarterback runs and gets tackled behind the line of scrimmage, it goes down as a sack. Sack yards get subtracted from passing yards. But if the quarterback runs and crosses the line of scrimmage, the yards get tacked onto the rushing total. It’s a backwards system, leaving stats that paint an inaccurate picture of a game. This directly contradicts the sole purpose of stats. Along the same vein, stop counting kneel downs as rushing attempts. A kneel down is the opposite of an attempt.
LeGOATski Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 Makes sense, but they should only count the scrambles. Read option and roll-outs are designed to allow the QB to run.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 So scrambles are effectively a screen pass to the QB? Sure, why not.
dave mcbride Posted August 14, 2015 Author Posted August 14, 2015 Makes sense, but they should only count the scrambles. Read option and roll-outs are designed to allow the QB to run. Agreed, but I think it's easy enough to discern which is which. It's not rocket surgery!
The Wiz Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 So scrambles are effectively a screen pass to the QB? Sure, why not. As long as he does one of those "throws it from behind himself and catches it over his shoulder" kind of things. You know what I'm talking about.
NoSaint Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 for someone working with a major center like SI, they could compile stats their own way even, like ESPNs QBR they could do some sort of "running play production" and "passing play production" stats. just tossing them into passing yards though would screw up YPA and stuff like that too, which if stats are just for evaluation im not sure which would be the bigger annoyance. .
dave mcbride Posted August 14, 2015 Author Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) Makes sense, but they should only count the scrambles. Read option and roll-outs are designed to allow the QB to run. It's even worse in college, where they count negative sack yardage as rushing yardage. for someone working with a major center like SI, they could compile stats their own way even, like ESPNs QBR they could do some sort of "running play production" and "passing play production" stats. just tossing them into passing yards though would screw up YPA and stuff like that too, which if stats are just for evaluation im not sure which would be the bigger annoyance. . I disagree. It wouldn't factor into YPA, just like negative sack yardage doesn't figure in. It would go into the more generic "team passing yardage" category, which is where they put sacks now. Sacks, after all, are simply failed scrambles. Edited August 14, 2015 by dave mcbride
quinnearlysghost88 Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 So a QB runs a TD in and he has a passing TD? No. THAT is misleading.
dave mcbride Posted August 14, 2015 Author Posted August 14, 2015 So a QB runs a TD in and he has a passing TD? No. THAT is misleading. That's not what he's saying. He's advocating folding scrambles into team passing yardage and also into opposing teams' passing yardage given up. It makes sense to me.
NoSaint Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 It's even worse in college, where they count negative sack yardage as rushing yardage. I disagree. It wouldn't factor into YPA, just like negative sack yardage doesn't figure in. It would go into the more generic "team passing yardage" category, which is where they put sacks now. Sacks, after all, are simply failed scrambles. gotcha - meh, ive never found it to be a problem - we all know the scramblers and the non, but i wouldnt be terribly concerned over a swap happening (or not)
Kelly the Dog Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/08/13/ik-enemkpal-buffalo-bills-signing-nfl 6. I think scrambling yards need to be counted as passing yards. This has occurred to me more and more as I’ve read back through my 2014 film notes to write the team-by-team previews for this site. Most scrambles come on passing downs, out of a passing formation, against a pass defense and on a called pass play. The play just happens to end with the quarterback running. Counting scrambles as rushing yards is not unlike counting run-after-catch yards as rushing yards. And if a quarterback runs and gets tackled behind the line of scrimmage, it goes down as a sack. Sack yards get subtracted from passing yards. But if the quarterback runs and crosses the line of scrimmage, the yards get tacked onto the rushing total. It’s a backwards system, leaving stats that paint an inaccurate picture of a game. This directly contradicts the sole purpose of stats. Along the same vein, stop counting kneel downs as rushing attempts. A kneel down is the opposite of an attempt. I think that's a good point and I agree. The kneel down I have always thought was incredibly stupid to charge a QB for the loss.
NoSaint Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 That's not what he's saying. He's advocating folding scrambles into team passing yardage and also into opposing teams' passing yardage given up. It makes sense to me. right, but on a broken play with a qb running for a td, would that be part of the passing or rushing td stats? in theory, passing, if following the same logic, right?
quinnearlysghost88 Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 That's not what he's saying. He's advocating folding scrambles into team passing yardage and also into opposing teams' passing yardage given up. It makes sense to me. So, hypothetically, a QB could have 0 rushing yards and a rushing TD?
eball Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 I wonder why an outfit like PFF hasn't done something like this?
GG Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 I think that's a good point and I agree. The kneel down I have always thought was incredibly stupid to charge a QB for the loss. Especially when you lose FFL week by .3 points
zonabb Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 I wonder why an outfit like PFF hasn't done something like this? Because it's a horrible idea. So if a RB fumbles the handoff, the QB picks it up and throws for a TD, is that a rushing TD then since it was out of an obvious run formation. If you RUN the ball, no matter what means or methods or intention, that's rushing the ball, period. It's really that simple and any argument otherwise is merely some stat guy's attempt to change the definitions of terms to meet his statistical needs. That's not how stats work. Any analysis that use an improper measured variable, in this case, running the football, is going to give you bad results. Sadly, too many people have zero statistical background to understand what these people are throwing out and instead gladly take them at face value.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 That's not what he's saying. He's advocating folding scrambles into team passing yardage and also into opposing teams' passing yardage given up. It makes sense to me. I get that, but the question posed by QuinnEarlysGhost (essentially, how would it be scored when a QB scrambles for a TD?) is the logical extension - if scrambing yards are passing yards, how WOULD you count a TD scored by a scrambling QB? I take his point about the misleading aspect of counting scrambles as runs, I think one could come up with an entirely different misleading impression by counting them as passing plays.
Chuck Wagon Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 I've long thought pass interference yards should count as passing yards. If Stafford launches a 50 yard bomb to Megatron and the DB just wraps him up, how is that not yards for Stafford and Calvin?
You herd it hear last Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 What does OCinbuffalo have to say about this. That's who I'm waiting to hear from. I've long thought pass interference yards should count as passing yards. If Stafford launches a 50 yard bomb to Megatron and the DB just wraps him up, how is that not yards for Stafford and Calvin? Because the throw and catch was never "completed". There is a variable component of the receiver possibly dropping the ball that you're excluding. I would assume the rule uses that logic.
Chuck Wagon Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 What does OCinbuffalo have to say about this. That's who I'm waiting to hear from. Because the throw and catch was never "completed". There is a variable component of the receiver possibly dropping the ball that you're excluding. I would assume the rule uses that logic. But the end result was the same as if the catch was made, you still advance the ball 50 yards and get a first down.
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