Lurker Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 The draft class doesn't matter at all. Who cares how good the other guys are, all the matters is how good the guy you drafted is. Yes and no, IMO. Certain years are better than others. The QBs in Manuel's draft class were a bunch of midgets, so picking one vertically challenged guy hasn't turned out any better the next ...
Felonious Monk Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 Even as someone that doesn't believe that he can be the guy I am okay with the EJ pick. They traded back and landed a pick that turned into Shady McCoy. It was a terrible QB draft and everyone knew it but they had to try to get a guy. They took a guy with a high ceiling and low floor. It hasn't worked out as they had hoped and I don't suspect that he will go elsewhere and light the league up. It still was a chance worth taking. Regroup and try again next year in a better QB draft. This. So many mock drafts had us taking Tavon Austin. I know it's crazy, but I'd rather have EJ + Shady.
Dorkington Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 In my mind, I think he's the best QB on the team and has the most potential. But everything I read says otherwise, so what do I know. :|
MDH Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 Let's watch their performances tonight. If EJ looks terrible with the 3's then there's reason to have concern with him. But if he tears it up which I fully expect him to (granted he gets o-line help), then we'll see a whole new rotation next week. If EJ tears it up all you'll hear is how it "was only against the 3rd string D."
DDD Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 Consider that draft class. Geno? Barkley? Nassib? It was the wrong year to take a QB. Any Nix and/or Whaley forced the pick. Nix even said in that secretly recorded phone call that it was a bad year to need a franchise QB. I don't fault Manuel. He seems to be a good person and works hard but everyone else had a 3rd round grade on him. Classic argument for drafting the BPA not forcing a pick because of need.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) I'd be surprised if EJ were cut given the cap ramifications. If they can find someone to trade him to though I would not at all be surprised if he weren't on the roster. I believe that is how Gabbert went from Jax to SF. At this point I think that it is more likely that EJ is in another uniform than it is EJ starting for the Bills. I like EJ. He has everything that you could want as a face of the franchise except for the ability to consistently make the plays necessary to be a starting NFL QB. Edited August 14, 2015 by Kirby Jackson
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 Did you hold a private workout for EJ in your backyard last night?
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 EJ will be signed by someone the second he is cut. Some team will take a flier on him. Exactly- he's started and won NFL games.... Someone will think their own coaching magic is the missing secret sauce... And sometimes it works out that way.
andrewsz1991 Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 If EJ tears it up all you'll hear is how it "was only against the 3rd string D." Correct. But it'll also show that he's not as incompetent as people make him out to be. If he's as bad as people want to believe he is then he'll go out there toss 3 picks and call it a day. I think we're all forgetting that this is the guy that led us to victories against Carolina (in a comeback), Baltimore, likely Cleveland if he didn't get hurt, and the Jets. In his first career game, we had the patriots on the ropes until Tom Brady worked his magic. If anybody remembers that Cleveland game like I do, EJ seemed to be the guy we drafted. It wasn't the most perfect performance but he made some throws and he was running with confidence until he got hurt.
Dorkington Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 Exactly- he's started and won NFL games.... Someone will think their own coaching magic is the missing secret sauce... And sometimes it works out that way. Considering how he was developed the first two years... I could see him finding success on a team with a proven offensive system if given the time to grow into it.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) Any Nix and/or Whaley forced the pick. Nix even said in that secretly recorded phone call that it was a bad year to need a franchise QB. I don't fault Manuel. He seems to be a good person and works hard but everyone else had a 3rd round grade on him. Classic argument for drafting the BPA not forcing a pick because of need. I think that this is an interesting point. It is something that we too often forget. That was a bad QB draft by all accounts. You can't demand that you draft a QB early because you need one. You have to take the best players. The wrong QB selection sets you back more than anywhere else. If you make a mistake on a CB for example you just plug the next guy in. As an example if Darby was bad (which by all accounts he is the exact opposite of) you just plug in someone like Ron Brooks and move on. Brooks isn't great but he is an NFL caliber CB and isn't involved in every play. Considering how he was developed the first two years... I could see him finding success on a team with a proven offensive system if given the time to grow into it. The problem is by most accounts he has regressed. Maybe it is a confidence thing but no one is pointing to improvement in his play. Edited August 14, 2015 by Kirby Jackson
andrewsz1991 Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 I think that this is an interesting point. It is something that we too often forget. That was a bad QB draft by all accounts. You can't demand that you draft a QB early because you need one. You have to take the best players. The wrong QB selection sets you back more than anywhere else. If you make a mistake on a CB for example you just plug the next guy in. As an example if Darby was bad (which by all accounts he is the exact opposite of) you just plug in someone like Ron Brooks and move on. Brooks isn't great but he is an NFL caliber CB and isn't involved in every play. The problem is by most accounts he has regressed. Maybe it is a confidence thing but no one is pointing to improvement in his play. How has he regressed? Even if you look at his games last year, he had an average QB rating in the high mid 80's with 5 td's and 3 interceptions. He led us to a comeback against over Chicago and played essentially flawless against Miami. One would argue Marrone's game management led to inefficient drives and lack of points scored. He's never been a bad quarterback. He hasn't been great, but I'd argue he hasn't lost us games by himself.
Dorkington Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) The problem is by most accounts he has regressed. Maybe it is a confidence thing but no one is pointing to improvement in his play. Right, if he started out 'good', and as he was 'coached' got worse, maybe the problem was the coaching, and it'll take time to undo that damage. Personally I'd rather we keep him and work on development as much as possible if he doesn't win the starting job. It's not like he's been that bad (imo). If we give him the win in Cle, and against Atl (as some reasonably do), he's got a decent record... he has more TDs than turnovers, as well... and arguably the 'bad' games he's had have been when the running game completely failed, or was simply ignored. To me those are all decent signs that he can be successful in the NFL. You combine that with his physical traits, and work ethic... it makes no sense to give up on him considering the circumstances. BUT... the media and fanbase have made up their mind, so... I guess he's done *shrugs* Edited August 14, 2015 by Dorkington
negativo Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 I resign myself to the fact that apparently EJ is no good, never will be, and is on his way out of Buffalo. Good guy, bad QB. Thanks, Buddy, for the draft pick on your way out. Go Tyrod. Sad as this statement may be, it's pretty accurate. Many of us, present company included, feared this would be the case from the moment Manuel was selected.
qwksilver Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 This hurts for 2 reasons. 1st obviously our 1rd round pick won't pan out. 2nd Marrone doesn't look like the idiot that we all know he is. If the Jags got a 6th for Gabbert we ought to be able to get at least that! I'm going to give EJ 1 more week, maybe ten days. We should all KNOW by then.
Nanker Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 There aren't many NFL teams that would pass on picking up EJ if he were to be cut. He's still a great developmental project. He's probably better than 80% of the #2s out there right now. NewenGland***, NY JESTS, Hell, even the Phins would likely take a flyer on him. Jints, Iggles, Cowboys, and Washington would too. IMO.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 How has he regressed? Even if you look at his games last year, he had an average QB rating in the high mid 80's with 5 td's and 3 interceptions. He led us to a comeback against over Chicago and played essentially flawless against Miami. One would argue Marrone's game management led to inefficient drives and lack of points scored. He's never been a bad quarterback. He hasn't been great, but I'd argue he hasn't lost us games by himself. For one, the reports out of camp are that he has been the worst of the bunch and the problems that have plagued him since HS(accuracy and getting through progressions quickly) are still issues. The 1st few games in a Bills uniform he looked like he may be the guy. He has played some atrocious games since (Pittsburgh, Houston, Tampa). You are not hearing anyone talk about the improvement even people that really like EJ (Sal for example) are saying the opposite. A scout last week said that he "is left handed and doesn't know it." That isn't a "this guy may be alright" analysis that is a "this guy is a train wreck" analysis. If EJ was a 3rd round pick as most projected there would not be the people on here defending him like they do. They would read the reports as they were meant to be taken. As of 8/14/15 he is the 3rd best QB on the roster. That isn't an agenda or anything other than his play hasn't been better than Cassel or Tyrod. This isn't some big shock either.
Big Gun Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 Exactly- he's started and won NFL games.... Someone will think their own coaching magic is the missing secret sauce... And sometimes it works out that way. Highly doubtful.
San-O Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 There aren't many NFL teams that would pass on picking up EJ if he were to be cut. He's still a great developmental project. He's probably better than 80% of the #2s out there right now. NewenGland***, NY JESTS, Hell, even the Phins would likely take a flyer on him. Jints, Iggles, Cowboys, and Washington would too. IMO. Dude, if cut, he's not better than OUR # 2 and we don't even really have a # 1!!
andrewsz1991 Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 For one, the reports out of camp are that he has been the worst of the bunch and the problems that have plagued him since HS(accuracy and getting through progressions quickly) are still issues. The 1st few games in a Bills uniform he looked like he may be the guy. He has played some atrocious games since (Pittsburgh, Houston, Tampa). You are not hearing anyone talk about the improvement even people that really like EJ (Sal for example) are saying the opposite. A scout last week said that he "is left handed and doesn't know it." That isn't a "this guy may be alright" analysis that is a "this guy is a train wreck" analysis. If EJ was a 3rd round pick as most projected there would not be the people on here defending him like they do. They would read the reports as they were meant to be taken. As of 8/14/15 he is the 3rd best QB on the roster. That isn't an agenda or anything other than his play hasn't been better than Cassel or Tyrod. This isn't some big shock either. The reports I read says Cassel was awful first weeks and that EJ showed up in the scrimmage better than anybody and Tyrod is a better runner than thrower. Those are the same reports we've seen forever. But I've seen good and bad from all three quarter backs. Through the first 8 Cassel looked terrible.
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