Kelly the Dog Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 This is also correct. But whether it can be classified as they wanted to get someone for EJ to sit behind and learn from or more of they wanted someone who could actually play the position and give a top 5 defense and what they hoped would be a good running game a chance for a playoff run is up for debate. The Orton signing was at least as much or more about Thad and Tuel than it was about EJ. Both had worse springs than EJ did and it was glaringly apparent they made a tactical error in not betting the backup position because they didn't want EJ looking over his shoulder. One of Whaleys only real glaring mistakes although I think Saint Doug's infatuation with Tuel, pun intended, helped a lot.
Rob's House Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 I know you don't mean me, but since I mentioned seeing people that apparently want him to fail, I'll put in my 2 cents. The skepticism isn't what lead me to make those comments; after all, I myself came into the season skeptical that EJ would take the reins. Rather, it's the apparent satisfaction that some folks appear to be drawing from seeing the kid listed 3rd on the depth chart and hearing chatter of a possible parting of ways. IMO, no real Bills' fan would be excited about the team's only 1st round pick at QB since 2004 possibly washing out. I can't speak for everyone, but I think a lot of what's being perceived as excitement about him washing out is really just elation over the fact that we have an open competition to find the best QB instead of the "all in on the EJ experiment no matter the cost" approach that many have advocated.
gumby Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 I know you don't mean me, but since I mentioned seeing people that apparently want him to fail, I'll put in my 2 cents. The skepticism isn't what lead me to make those comments; after all, I myself came into the season skeptical that EJ would take the reins. Rather, it's the apparent satisfaction that some folks appear to be drawing from seeing the kid listed 3rd on the depth chart and hearing chatter of a possible parting of ways. IMO, no real Bills' fan would be excited about the team's only 1st round pick at QB since 2004 possibly washing out. I don't think the back and forth has anything to do with being a fan of the Bills or not. It's more of a message board thing where people feel the need to be right so they go to ever more extreme positions to be seen as insightful or witty. It's a game of one-upmanship to be king of the message board.
Beerball Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 Anyone see that Matt Cassel looked great in practice yesterday and threw three TD's against the Browns starters? Figured I'd mention it considering no one else had- what, with this being a Bills site and all.well, seeing as how this thread is about EJ maybe you should saunter over to yesterday's practice thread.
thebandit27 Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 I can't speak for everyone, but I think a lot of what's being perceived as excitement about him washing out is really just elation over the fact that we have an open competition to find the best QB instead of the "all in on the EJ experiment no matter the cost" approach that many have advocated. That's a hard sell based on some of the posts. I mean, this thread is littered with (I'm paraphrasing) "haha told you EJ sucks" posts the last 2-3 days. I will say that I'm also very happy to have a true competition. I don't think the back and forth has anything to do with being a fan of the Bills or not. It's more of a message board thing where people feel the need to be right so they go to ever more extreme positions to be seen as insightful or witty. It's a game of one-upmanship to be king of the message board. I'm sure that's the case; my point is that I don't see how any fan of any team could actually want the 1st round QB to fail just so that they can be right.
FireChan Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 That's a hard sell based on some of the posts. I mean, this thread is littered with (I'm paraphrasing) "haha told you EJ sucks" posts the last 2-3 days. I will say that I'm also very happy to have a true competition. I'm sure that's the case; my point is that I don't see how any fan of any team could actually want the 1st round QB to fail just so that they can be right. When you think about though bandit, shouldn't we be happy that we've upgraded the QB situation? Bryce Brown sucking is a bad thing, but at least we got Karlos Williams who is better. I don't see guys pumping up Karlos over Brown getting blasted for "wanting to be right over winning." Also, moving on from EJ sooner rather than later also benefits the Bills chances to find a good QB. At the end of the day, this is about the team and not one guy. It sucks for EJ and the Bills that he's not good. Just like it sucks for Bryce and the Bills that he's not good. At least we have better options than both those guys. That's a positive.
thebandit27 Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 When you think about though bandit, shouldn't we be happy that we've upgraded the QB situation? Bryce Brown sucking is a bad thing, but at least we got Karlos Williams who is better. I don't see guys pumping up Karlos over Brown getting blasted for "wanting to be right over winning." Also, moving on from EJ sooner rather than later also benefits the Bills chances to find a good QB. At the end of the day, this is about the team and not one guy. It sucks for EJ and the Bills that he's not good. Just like it sucks for Bryce and the Bills that he's not good. At least we have better options than both those guys. That's a positive. And if that were the sentiment being expressed in the posts I'm referring to, then I probably wouldn't even mention it. However, I'm 100% certain you know the difference between "well, at least we found out now and can move on" and "HAHAHAHAHAHA, now all the EJ crusaders have to lick boots!"
Beerball Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 When you think about though bandit, shouldn't we be happy that we've upgraded the QB situation? Bryce Brown sucking is a bad thing, but at least we got Karlos Williams who is better. I don't see guys pumping up Karlos over Brown getting blasted for "wanting to be right over winning." Also, moving on from EJ sooner rather than later also benefits the Bills chances to find a good QB. At the end of the day, this is about the team and not one guy. It sucks for EJ and the Bills that he's not good. Just like it sucks for Bryce and the Bills that he's not good. At least we have better options than both those guys. That's a positive. Your assumption is that the position is better. As long as you're ok with the possibility, however remote (to me as well), that it's EJ who gives the Bills their best chance in 2015 then no issue here.
BigBuff423 Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 And if that were the sentiment being expressed in the posts I'm referring to, then I probably wouldn't even mention it. However, I'm 100% certain you know the difference between "well, at least we found out now and can move on" and "HAHAHAHAHAHA, now all the EJ crusaders have to lick boots!" I for one am in the "I really hoped it would work and rooted for EJ because he seems like a good kid and hey, it's a 1st round QB, but now it's time to move on" crowd....Having said that, what I truly, really, sincerely DON'T want is for Taylor to shoot it lights out from here through the Super Bowl and the BILLS determine they DO NOT need to Draft a QB in the 1st or 2nd round in 2016. Because, IMHO, regardless of the outcome (such as the extremely unlikely one I just posited with Taylor), I fully believe the BILLS NEEEEEEEEED to Draft an NFL ready, Face of the Franchise, and future of the team Quarterback in 2016, doing whatever necessary to accomplish that task, especially given the otherwise wonderful pool of talent this team has on it already.
metzelaars_lives Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) I for one am in the "I really hoped it would work and rooted for EJ because he seems like a good kid and hey, it's a 1st round QB, but now it's time to move on" crowd....Having said that, what I truly, really, sincerely DON'T want is for Taylor to shoot it lights out from here through the Super Bowl and the BILLS determine they DO NOT need to Draft a QB in the 1st or 2nd round in 2016. Because, IMHO, regardless of the outcome (such as the extremely unlikely one I just posited with Taylor), I fully believe the BILLS NEEEEEEEEED to Draft an NFL ready, Face of the Franchise, and future of the team Quarterback in 2016, doing whatever necessary to accomplish that task, especially given the otherwise wonderful pool of talent this team has on it already. What you don't want is for the Bills to go to the Super Bowl with Taylor because then they might believe they have found their guy? Now I've really heard it all. Let's just enjoy the ride guys. The 2015 Buffalo Bills are going to be really good. As much as I have somehow become the face of the "haters" even though I've never said anything beyond "I think it's less than likely that he develops into a franchise QB," I honestly believe that this team is a playoff team with any of the three guys at QB. I want them to keep all three guys, I really do. A poster the other day made an excellent point when he said that he doesn't want us to be the 2014 Arizona Cardinals- stuck with a great team and no QB because of a couple injuries. Let's just enjoy this season and not worry about 2016. We're going to be drafting in the 20's, who the hell knows what QB might be there. And then we have to wait around for him to develop and by that time, Kyle Williams is retired, Mario Williams is past his prime, etc. Let's enjoy the moment. And if that post was controversial then I really give up. Edited August 18, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
KingRex Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 I don't think the back and forth has anything to do with being a fan of the Bills or not. It's more of a message board thing where people feel the need to be right so they go to ever more extreme positions to be seen as insightful or witty. It's a game of one-upmanship to be king of the message board. I think some of the opinions expressed on the EJ situation actually do speak to the quality of the poster as a good Bills fan or not. It is MHO that either extreme position (cut EJ yesterday) or (give EJ the starting position now) speaks to the poster expressing either extreme as not being a very good (or football smart Bills fan. On the face of it, has EJ won the job with his performance so far in less than a year's worth of starts? No! I actually no of few folks outside of EJ's mom who would take this stance. However, should the Bills cut EJ now? No, such a view is clearly anti-Rex as the Bills position is that the job will be won/loss on the field and not in a near arbitrary assessment to cut him now and simply give the job to Cassel or TT. Such a move would also be anti-Bills right now as: 1. Does anyone feel that the play demonstrated by either Cassel or TT so far merits simply awarding them the job or simply eliminating all competition even though they have done little or nothing on the field yet? 2. As we see from Wynn and Powell having their season end w/o warning it would simply be dumb to cut a QB particularly when neither TT or Cassel have earned the starter job. 3. Perhaps a poster feels it is in EJ's interest to start his new life sooner rather than later, but this again is EJ's and not Bill's interest. 4. Perhaps they want to cut EJ to get more reps but again if the coaches are clear they think Cassel or TT need to get more reps, they simply have to suck it up and play who they judge is best for the Bills. 5. It is more important to a true Bills fan to keep our opponents in the dark rather than tip our hand to them by satisfying the whining of some vocal fans. I support my team enuf to require Rex to keep the public in the dark on the Bills depth cart rather than prioritize keeping us fans aware of every single decision.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) I for one am in the "I really hoped it would work and rooted for EJ because he seems like a good kid and hey, it's a 1st round QB, but now it's time to move on" crowd....Having said that, what I truly, really, sincerely DON'T want is for Taylor to shoot it lights out from here through the Super Bowl and the BILLS determine they DO NOT need to Draft a QB in the 1st or 2nd round in 2016. Because, IMHO, regardless of the outcome (such as the extremely unlikely one I just posited with Taylor), I fully believe the BILLS NEEEEEEEEED to Draft an NFL ready, Face of the Franchise, and future of the team Quarterback in 2016, doing whatever necessary to accomplish that task, especially given the otherwise wonderful pool of talent this team has on it already. Umm, so you hope that a franchise QB doesn't emerge because we need a franchise QB? This couldn't make less sense to me. You do realize that the unlikely situation that you described could apply to Kurt Warner and Tom Brady right? Edited August 18, 2015 by Kirby Jackson
FireChan Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 And if that were the sentiment being expressed in the posts I'm referring to, then I probably wouldn't even mention it. However, I'm 100% certain you know the difference between "well, at least we found out now and can move on" and "HAHAHAHAHAHA, now all the EJ crusaders have to lick boots!" That's how I feel, I just have a funny way of showing it.
Matt in KC Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 will Alex Smith come save the day like he did for Meh in KC? The meh enthusiasm is interesting. Mediocrity is what we need ! Leave me out of this.
GunnerBill Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 Umm, so you hope that a franchise QB doesn't emerge because we need a franchise QB? This couldn't make less sense to me. Or me. If Tyrod takes us to the Superbowl we roll with him in 2016 no doubt. The question is more what if the team makes the play-offs ad goes 1 and done or wins a wildcard game and loses in the divisional round and Tyrod is "good". Like I dunno... Mike Vick when he came back to the league in Philly good? Is that a guy you decide to roll with into 2016? If Tyrod wins the job and flames out we have our answer... if he takes us to the big dance we have our answer but what if he is kinda promising but kinda inconsistent? Then we are back in the "how long is long enough to decide if he is our guy" that we have had with EJ.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 Or me. If Tyrod takes us to the Superbowl we roll with him in 2016 no doubt. The question is more what if the team makes the play-offs ad goes 1 and done or wins a wildcard game and loses in the divisional round and Tyrod is "good". Like I dunno... Mike Vick when he came back to the league in Philly good? Is that a guy you decide to roll with into 2016? If Tyrod wins the job and flames out we have our answer... if he takes us to the big dance we have our answer but what if he is kinda promising but kinda inconsistent? Then we are back in the "how long is long enough to decide if he is our guy" that we have had with EJ. Yeah, I think that it depends on how good. It really is his first time starting in the league so I would think that he would probably enter his 2nd year as the presumed starter if he is average (like EJ did last year). If he is bad and is replaced they will be looking. If he is good, he will be the guy. It is a little different if Cassel is pretty good. If Cassel performs at/or slightly above the level that Orton did last year I think that they will draft a guy but have Cassel as the opening day starter in 2016.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 Or me. If Tyrod takes us to the Superbowl we roll with him in 2016 no doubt. The question is more what if the team makes the play-offs ad goes 1 and done or wins a wildcard game and loses in the divisional round and Tyrod is "good". Like I dunno... Mike Vick when he came back to the league in Philly good? Is that a guy you decide to roll with into 2016? If Tyrod wins the job and flames out we have our answer... if he takes us to the big dance we have our answer but what if he is kinda promising but kinda inconsistent? Then we are back in the "how long is long enough to decide if he is our guy" that we have had with EJ. I have to believe after the fumbling around that happened between Trent's pick and EJ's that regardless of this season's outcome they will be picking a QB in the first 3 rounds of next year's draft. There are more than a few quality prospects, and if the Bills are comfortable with Tyrod, or whomever wins for that matter, then he can even require some development.
GunnerBill Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 Yeah, I think that it depends on how good. It really is his first time starting in the league so I would think that he would probably enter his 2nd year as the presumed starter if he is average (like EJ did last year). If he is bad and is replaced they will be looking. If he is good, he will be the guy. It is a little different if Cassel is pretty good. If Cassel performs at/or slightly above the level that Orton did last year I think that they will draft a guy but have Cassel as the opening day starter in 2016. Yea I agree. If Cassel wins the job and starts 16 games you draft another guy whatever the outcome of the season. But if it's Tyrod..... then it really depends on how he does and I can see us having the same debate on development of quarterbacks and on how long is long enough again this time next year.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 Might be time to try out a new screen identity and start fresh. metzelaars_dies perhaps? or maybe metzelaars_cries? I find it interesting how many of the same people who claim that being skeptical of EJ's abilities is tantamount to wanting him to fail get a kick out of calling our presumptive starter "Meh". I didn't exactly jump for joy when I heard Cassel was likely to be the guy, but I don't think a modicum of consistency is too much to ask for. Rob, at this moment all 3 are presumptive starters. Rex Ryan - "Don't read into it too much that EJ is with the 3's".
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