Ok, I give up -- EJ will be 3rd string or cut

[DC Greg]

I have already said the person to blame ultimately for EJ not being good enough is EJ. Here we have another person missing the point I am trying to make.

 

And I disagree with your opening line. The generational type talents sure they will succeed regardless most Quarterbacks, hell I'd say probably 70-75% of the players in the NFL need the right conditions in which to succeed. That is part of the reason you see so many big FA busts. It is simply not as simple as if yoy are good you will be good anywhere regardless of situation and circumstance.

 

None of which please understand is me saying EJ Manuel would have made it had Chip Kelly drafted him or any of that speculative nonsense. It is simply me saying situation matters to football players and indeed to people in most team sports.

 

I agree with most of that. And didn't really mean to quote your post as if my reply was an exact rebuttal to the points you were making. I agree with situation and all, but at the end of the day, you either get it done or you don't. It's not like he only had one game. He's had a lot of time on the field. Now he's in his third season, and the coaches who sucked are gone. If he is in fact behind Matt Cassel and Tyrod Taylor, I trust Rex Ryan and Greg Roman's assessment. That should just about settle it IMO. Bad player. End of story. Would expect him to get picked up by some other team with a bad backup QB situation and eventually fizzle out in that role in another year or two as more real NFL players enter the league.

 

But I'll wait till the end of camp and see if he's still on the roster or even in the mix to be the backup before I say he's completely crapped out. I'm like 85% of that opinion as things stand.

[GunnerBill]

For what it is worth I agree that EJ is done here. I thought he had a shot this camp and he didn't make it stick. He played well the other night but not well enough considering the two guys who have practiced better also played well.

 

I hope he plays well in the remaining pre-season games because I think getting a pick back for him (there are 7 or 8 backup situations I think he would improve) even if it is a 7th rounder is better than eating his salary. If they can't get a pick I think he starts the season on the roster as the 3rd Quarterback.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

I appreciate you being one of the first to elaborate about this vague "lack of development" concept. Well I would agree that the conditions for him may not have been ideal to succeed, a) it wasn't really the Bills' fault as they brought in Kolb to sort of mentor him and b) the Bills offensive line was one of the very best in football in 2012- no one could have seen their regression under Marrone coming the way it did. I would argue that all of these excuses (and they are excuses) are superseded by the fact that he simply has not looked sharp throwing the football in camp the last two years (he was no doubt worse last year than this year). I'm talking in 7 on 7 drills where it doesn't matter who your coach is or who is on your offensive line. If he looked sharp throwing the football in practice and then struggled in game situations, I would be more inclined to go along with what you're saying and question why his success was/is unable to translate to game situations. Fair?

I think me and Chan's raging religious debate in the shoutbox a few months back would discredit your theory.

See, these posts are exactly what perpetuates the constant arguing when it comes to this very delicate subject. The poster was responding to me and I am not in the "EJ stands no chance" crowd. In fact, I laid out my stance on EJ very clearly on the previous page. Feel free to take a gander.

ok semantics I apologize

 

you feel EJ has little chance of succeeding

[BuffaloBob]

I have already said the person to blame ultimately for EJ not being good enough is EJ. Here we have another person missing the point I am trying to make.

 

And I disagree with your opening line. The generational type talents sure they will succeed regardless most Quarterbacks, hell I'd say probably 70-75% of the players in the NFL need the right conditions in which to succeed. That is part of the reason you see so many big FA busts. It is simply not as simple as if yoy are good you will be good anywhere regardless of situation and circumstance.

 

None of which please understand is me saying EJ Manuel would have made it had Chip Kelly drafted him or any of that speculative nonsense. It is simply me saying situation matters to football players and indeed to people in most team sports.

 

EDIT: and let me repeat again for the hard of reading - I am not defending EJ Manuel.

I totally agree with you. This idea that men are born NFL QBs or not, and that if you aren't ready when you get your shot, then you just aren't an NFL QB is utter crappola.

 

Playing QB in the NFL is the most difficult position to play in all of sports. Not all QB prospects have the same developmental environment as they come up through the ranks. Some get to study with the likes of Jim Harbaugh and some get to play for Jimbo Fisher.

 

There was a time when QBs were given time to learn the position, but not anymore. Sink or swim is the name of the game now. If you can't master the position in 14 games, you never will. It's a BS.

 

Only haters will not admit that EJ has progressed since his first year. When I watched him against the Panthers the other night, I wanted to feel badly for him because he was stuck with the threes, including a center that snapped one up nearly over his head, and another while he was calling an audible walking up to the line. Totally blew his first possession. He had two and maybe three drops that killed drives, and would have led to more snaps for him.

 

Yet, he was very calm, and unflappable. He maintained his cool and finally delivered a beautiful pass under pressure for the TD. And then you get to hear everyone tell you how he's just not consistent, he can't read the field, he can't make good decisions, he has a bad delivery, he has no feel in the pocket. I also so that he was just lucky, and that he reverted to his old self when he missed O'Leary after a beautiful move to escape a sack, rolling to his right, and what looked to me like he tried to hold up because he realized O'Leary was starting up field after he started his motion. Yup. One bad pass out of 8 proves he sucks and will never cut it.

 

He needs to play to get fully confident, the same way Favre got to play even when he was pissing off Holmgren early on. But he won't get that chance in this era of, you're either ready now or forget it. If the Bills cut him, I hope someone picks him up and he gets his chance. I will find it easy to root for him.

Edited August 17, 2015 by BuffaloBob

[The Jokeman]

Alright I admit it, I was trolling for a couple days there. The EJ debate got the better of me and after the one dude blocked me, I realized I was being kind of juvenile. I will issue one final statement on the matter and then I am taking an oath to not comment on the QB situation until September 13th. I promise.

 

Here it is:

 

The EJ defenders on this website are out of control. In fact, this website is not a fair representation of Bills fans in general. If you listen to Buffalo sports talk radio or talk to Bills fans in the real world, it is rare that you find anyone so adamant about defending the guy but for whatever reason it seems like half of you guys are committed to this ridiculous cause.

 

In the last two days under the guise of a pro-EJ poster, I have not said one single thing that I haven't seen posted on here a hundred times. Marrone intentionally ruined EJ? OC in Buffalo told us all that recently. The Bills organization is responsible for stunting his development and "ruining" him? It's said on here every day. I still have no idea what that means. First they let him play. Then they benched him. I am at a loss. What else were they supposed to do? Is there a third option? EJ has all this potential but Ryan Tannehill has already maxed out even though he only started playing QB five years ago and has improved by leaps and bounds every season? That's like more than half of you. Gugny stated that, contracts aside, he would rather have Ryan Tannehill on his roster than EJ Manuel. Like, he really said that. We're not allowed to even begin to speculate as to whether he can be good or not? I hear that all the time. If I am skeptical about EJ then I am a "hater" and I want to be right about his failure more than I want the Bills to win. OK whatever. "But, but, QB X wasn't very good in his second year..." Ya know what, Jamarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf sucked at this stage in their careers too.

 

Guys, he's in his third year here. There is no conspiracy against him. It's not Joe B's fault. It's not Doug Marrone's fault. He came into a QB competition with an opportunity to prove me and everyone else wrong and win the job. He has looked the third best so far, period. And then of course, there's the "well one day Cassel looked good and then one day EJ looked good and then one day Taylor looked good, I can't keep track..." crowd. Stop. He has looked the third best. Even John Murphy, the biggest EJ advocate of them all, recently conceded that he doesn't seem to be picking up the offense whereas the other two guys are improving every day. It seems to me that what some of you want is for the Bills to just hand EJ the job because he's younger and unproven and "we know what we have in Cassel." Life doesn't work that way guys. You wanna start over Matt Cassel? Then play better than him. That's it. How well do you think it would sit with the team if they just handed the job to EJ even though everyone in the locker room knew full well that Cassel/Taylor gives them a better chance to beat the Colts on September 13th. If you're Winston or Mariotta, perhaps you get to start over a veteran who might be better right now. But not a guy who was not a great college QB, has clearly regressed since being drafted and quite frankly, should've been drafted in the third round in which case, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. It's his third year guys. He's been on the pot for a long time now and nothing's doing.

 

When he is relegated to third string or cut, I'm not going to exclaim "I told you so" because I never told anyone anything. I just said I thought it was less than likely that he would develop into a franchise QB. I still think that. I think it's plainly obvious. I just can't believe how many of you disagree(d). I don't have time to waste waiting around for a guy to develop who has shown zero indication that he's going to develop. I just ask that if Matt Cassel is the starter week 1 that you guys get behind him, stop with this childish "Meh" thing and let's unite as Bills fans and stop this bickering. And if Cassel performs poorly in the regular season, you are not allowed to emerge back out of thee woodwork and start with your EJ crusade again because that's the guy he couldn't beat out in the first place.

and Tyrod's in his 5th year and has thrown a total of 35 NFL with a lower completion percentage than EJ and with 2 picks. Tell me how that equates to him being a better QB than EJ? I know people rave about Tyrod's practices and getting reps with the first team but you know what? Through the scrimmage and preseason game EJ has more TD passes and a better yards per attempt and think a better competion.

 

Then the report of today's scrimmage from Tyrod: took nine snaps with the first-team offense and was sacked four times. That's horrible and sounds like he completed just 1 pass in his 9 attempts. Courtesy of http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/20137/bills-qbs-receivers-own-browns-dbs-in-joint-practice

[metzelaars_lives]

ok semantics I apologize

 

you feel EJ has little chance of succeeding

"Less than likely" is what I've maintained throughout. Do you still think there's a better than 50% chance he's our opening day starter week 1 2017?

and Tyrod's in his 5th year and has thrown a total of 35 NFL with a lower completion percentage than EJ and with 2 picks. Tell me how that equates to him being a better QB than EJ? I know people rave about Tyrod's practices and getting reps with the first team but you know what? Through the scrimmage and preseason game EJ has more TD passes and a better yards per attempt and think a better competion.

 

Then the report of today's scrimmage from Tyrod: took nine snaps with the first-team offense and was sacked four times. That's horrible and sounds like he completed just 1 pass in his 9 attempts. Courtesy of http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/20137/bills-qbs-receivers-own-browns-dbs-in-joint-practice

Is this part of your "Jokeman" shtick or are you really citing Tyrod Taylor's mop up duty and practice stats?

[Fixxxer]

I hope so! And ironically he's the only one of the three that no one's talking about.

 

The one thing I'd ask you is to give me an example of a time where a rookie QB gets to waltz onto a team with an established veteran to sit behind or perhaps mentor him for a few years, a proven coaching staff, a great offensive line, etc. Aaron Rodgers? Brock Osweiler? Carson Palmer? We're talking a few very rare instances here. And Rodgers' line sucked when he first started. At some point you have to put the onus on the QB. Way, way more often than not, the situation is gonna be less than ideal for a young QB. I am more in the "if he's good, he'll be good" camp and less in the "circumstances have to be just right" camp.

 

Two threads devoted to TT in the first page to TBD and you have yet to post in them. People are talking about him, you might want to check it out.

[BuffaloBob]

"Less than likely" is what I've maintained throughout. Do you still think there's a better than 50% chance he's our opening day starter week 1 2017?

Is this part of your "Jokeman" shtick or are you really citing Tyrod Taylor's mop up duty and practice stats?

 

That's right, negative practice stats are only relevant when they're EJ's, and therefore serve to support your narrative.

[GunnerBill]

 

Two threads devoted to TT in the first page to TBD and you have yet to post in them. People are talking about him, you might want to check it out.

Yea I thought that comment was odd too. I think Metz has got so invested in the whole EJ thing and his arch rival BF4E that he might be subconciously filtering out anything not EJ related Edited August 17, 2015 by GunnerBill

[metzelaars_lives]

 

That's right, negative practice stats are only relevant when they're EJ's, and therefore serve to support your narrative.

Dude I have never cited anyone's practice stats. Look, I'm not pushing an agenda. The coaches, at least as of today, have EJ third. This is clear. I am simply deferring to them as I have yet to attend a practice. Let me ask you this: why do you think the coaches and all the reporters, etc. all have EJ third? Do you think THEY have an agenda?

[ko12010]

I totally agree with you. This idea that men are born NFL QBs or not, and that if you aren't ready when you get your shot, then you just aren't an NFL QB is utter crappola.

 

Playing QB in the NFL is the most difficult position to play in all of sports. Not all QB prospects have the same developmental environment as they come up through the ranks. Some get to study with the likes of Jim Harbaugh and some get to play for Jimbo Fisher.

 

There was a time when QBs were given time to learn the position, but not anymore. Sink or swim is the name of the game now. If you can't master the position in 14 games, you never will. It's a BS.

 

Only haters will not admit that EJ has progressed since his first year. When I watched him against the Panthers the other night, I wanted to feel badly for him because he was stuck with the threes, including a center that snapped one up nearly over his head, and another while he was calling an audible walking up to the line. Totally blew his first possession. He had two and maybe three drops that killed drives, and would have led to more snaps for him.

 

Yet, he was very calm, and unflappable. He maintained his cool and finally delivered a beautiful pass under pressure for the TD. And then you get to hear everyone tell you how he's just not consistent, he can't read the field, he can't make good decisions, he has a bad delivery, he has no feel in the pocket. I also so that he was just lucky, and that he reverted to his old self when he missed O'Leary after a beautiful move to escape a sack, rolling to his right, and what looked to me like he tried to hold up because he realized O'Leary was starting up field after he started his motion. Yup. One bad pass out of 8 proves he sucks and will never cut it.

 

He needs to play to get fully confident, the same way Favre got to play even when he was pissing off Holmgren early on. But he won't get that chance in this era of, you're either ready now or forget it. If the Bills cut him, I hope someone picks him up and he gets his chance. I will find it easy to root for him.

Awesome post

[26CornerBlitz]

I totally agree with you. This idea that men are born NFL QBs or not, and that if you aren't ready when you get your shot, then you just aren't an NFL QB is utter crappola.

 

Playing QB in the NFL is the most difficult position to play in all of sports. Not all QB prospects have the same developmental environment as they come up through the ranks. Some get to study with the likes of Jim Harbaugh and some get to play for Jimbo Fisher.

 

There was a time when QBs were given time to learn the position, but not anymore. Sink or swim is the name of the game now. If you can't master the position in 14 games, you never will. It's a BS.

 

Only haters will not admit that EJ has progressed since his first year. When I watched him against the Panthers the other night, I wanted to feel badly for him because he was stuck with the threes, including a center that snapped one up nearly over his head, and another while he was calling an audible walking up to the line. Totally blew his first possession. He had two and maybe three drops that killed drives, and would have led to more snaps for him.

 

Yet, he was very calm, and unflappable. He maintained his cool and finally delivered a beautiful pass under pressure for the TD. And then you get to hear everyone tell you how he's just not consistent, he can't read the field, he can't make good decisions, he has a bad delivery, he has no feel in the pocket. I also so that he was just lucky, and that he reverted to his old self when he missed O'Leary after a beautiful move to escape a sack, rolling to his right, and what looked to me like he tried to hold up because he realized O'Leary was starting up field after he started his motion. Yup. One bad pass out of 8 proves he sucks and will never cut it.

 

He needs to play to get fully confident, the same way Favre got to play even when he was pissing off Holmgren early on. But he won't get that chance in this era of, you're either ready now or forget it. If the Bills cut him, I hope someone picks him up and he gets his chance. I will find it easy to root for him.

Good post.

[metzelaars_lives]

I totally agree with you. This idea that men are born NFL QBs or not, and that if you aren't ready when you get your shot, then you just aren't an NFL QB is utter crappola.

 

Playing QB in the NFL is the most difficult position to play in all of sports. Not all QB prospects have the same developmental environment as they come up through the ranks. Some get to study with the likes of Jim Harbaugh and some get to play for Jimbo Fisher.

 

There was a time when QBs were given time to learn the position, but not anymore. Sink or swim is the name of the game now. If you can't master the position in 14 games, you never will. It's a BS.

 

Only haters will not admit that EJ has progressed since his first year. When I watched him against the Panthers the other night, I wanted to feel badly for him because he was stuck with the threes, including a center that snapped one up nearly over his head, and another while he was calling an audible walking up to the line. Totally blew his first possession. He had two and maybe three drops that killed drives, and would have led to more snaps for him.

 

Yet, he was very calm, and unflappable. He maintained his cool and finally delivered a beautiful pass under pressure for the TD. And then you get to hear everyone tell you how he's just not consistent, he can't read the field, he can't make good decisions, he has a bad delivery, he has no feel in the pocket. I also so that he was just lucky, and that he reverted to his old self when he missed O'Leary after a beautiful move to escape a sack, rolling to his right, and what looked to me like he tried to hold up because he realized O'Leary was starting up field after he started his motion. Yup. One bad pass out of 8 proves he sucks and will never cut it.

 

He needs to play to get fully confident, the same way Favre got to play even when he was pissing off Holmgren early on. But he won't get that chance in this era of, you're either ready now or forget it. If the Bills cut him, I hope someone picks him up and he gets his chance. I will find it easy to root for him.

I don't necessarily disagree with most of what you wrote. I think though, that saying "hey we don't quite know yet, it's still early" and saying "my gut is that it's not happening" are not mutually exclusive concepts. And I would question the "progress" he's made. As I've stated time and again, he had a serviceable rookie season top to bottom. I was certainly ok with him being our qb going into 2014. But he clearly regressed last year, that can't be up for debate. And now this year, he's running third in the qb competition. Is he better today than he was in August of 2013? I wonder. Reports out of camp would lead you to believe he's not. I guess I just don't understand whose fault it is. And for the record, I never said anything about his performance the other night. He looked fine. Unfortunately for him, so too did the other two guys. Good news for the Bills by the way (kind of lost in all this). Edited August 17, 2015 by metzelaars_lives

[ko12010]

I don't necessarily disagree with most of what you wrote. I think though, that saying "hey we don't quite know yet, it's still early" and saying "my gut is that it's not happening" are not mutually exclusive concepts. And I would question the "progress" he's made. As I've stated time and again, he had a serviceable rookie season top to bottom. I was certainly ok with him being our qb going into 2014. But he clearly regressed last year, that can't be up for debate. And now this year, he's running third in the qb competition. Is he better today than he was in August of 2013? I wonder. Reports out of camp would lead you to believe he's not. I guess I just don't understand whose fault it is. And for the record, I never said anything about his performance the other night. He looked fine. Unfortunately for him, so too did the other two guys. Good news for the Bills by the way (kind of lost in all this).

How is that not up for debate? He played FOUR games. He did well in the first two and bad in the next two. Fairly common for a young QB still learning the position. Marrone pulled the plug on EJ because he thought a veteran like Orton might get him another W or two, raise his stock for his coming battle of wills with Whaley.

[DC Greg]

I don't necessarily disagree with most of what you wrote. I think though, that saying "hey we don't quite know yet, it's still early" and saying "my gut is that it's not happening" are not mutually exclusive concepts. And I would question the "progress" he's made. As I've stated time and again, he had a serviceable rookie season top to bottom. I was certainly ok with him being our qb going into 2014. But he clearly regressed last year, that can't be up for debate. And now this year, he's running third in the qb competition. Is he better today than he was in August of 2013? I wonder. Reports out of camp would lead you to believe he's not. I guess I just don't understand whose fault it is. And for the record, I never said anything about his performance the other night. He looked fine. Unfortunately for him, so too did the other two guys. Good news for the Bills by the way (kind of lost in all this).

 

Sounds right.

 

I totally agree with you. This idea that men are born NFL QBs or not, and that if you aren't ready when you get your shot, then you just aren't an NFL QB is utter crappola.

 

Playing QB in the NFL is the most difficult position to play in all of sports. Not all QB prospects have the same developmental environment as they come up through the ranks. Some get to study with the likes of Jim Harbaugh and some get to play for Jimbo Fisher.

 

There was a time when QBs were given time to learn the position, but not anymore. Sink or swim is the name of the game now. If you can't master the position in 14 games, you never will. It's a BS.

 

Only haters will not admit that EJ has progressed since his first year. When I watched him against the Panthers the other night, I wanted to feel badly for him because he was stuck with the threes, including a center that snapped one up nearly over his head, and another while he was calling an audible walking up to the line. Totally blew his first possession. He had two and maybe three drops that killed drives, and would have led to more snaps for him.

 

Yet, he was very calm, and unflappable. He maintained his cool and finally delivered a beautiful pass under pressure for the TD. And then you get to hear everyone tell you how he's just not consistent, he can't read the field, he can't make good decisions, he has a bad delivery, he has no feel in the pocket. I also so that he was just lucky, and that he reverted to his old self when he missed O'Leary after a beautiful move to escape a sack, rolling to his right, and what looked to me like he tried to hold up because he realized O'Leary was starting up field after he started his motion. Yup. One bad pass out of 8 proves he sucks and will never cut it.

 

He needs to play to get fully confident, the same way Favre got to play even when he was pissing off Holmgren early on. But he won't get that chance in this era of, you're either ready now or forget it. If the Bills cut him, I hope someone picks him up and he gets his chance. I will find it easy to root for him.

 

In almost every EJ defense argument, there is a comparison to a hall of fame quarterback. "Well you know, Farve threw some interceptions." "Well you know, Aaron Rodgers got to sit on the bench and learn." "Well you know, [insert HOF QB who has actually won in the NFL] blah blah blah."

 

The comparisons are laughable. The only similarities are that they were drafted in the first round. And because of that, folks want to equate that they are equally talented first round type players. They are not. The Bills had to reach for a QB because they had stood in the box and watched strikes go by year after year. They swung this time, but current evidence suggests they swung and missed badly.

 

EJ Manuel is not Brett Farve. He's not Aaron Rodgers. And only the homiest of homers would suggest something like that. Outside of the 716 you would get laughed out of town for that nonsense. Sorry. I want an amazing first round block buster superbowl caliber quarterback too. He's not it, unfortunately.

Edited August 18, 2015 by DC Greg

[metzelaars_lives]

How is that not up for debate? He played FOUR games. He did well in the first two and bad in the next two. Fairly common for a young QB still learning the position. Marrone pulled the plug on EJ because he thought a veteran like Orton might get him another W or two, raise his stock for his coming battle of wills with Whaley.

Again, everyone always points to the four games. I care way less about his performance in those last two games than I do about the fact that his entire 2014 offseason and preseason was a complete and utter train wreck- so much so that they went out and made the emergency signing of Orton. Why does no one ever remember this? It wasn't that long ago guys.

[DC Greg]

Again, everyone always points to the four games. I care way less about his performance in those last two games than I do about the fact that his entire 2014 offseason and preseason was a complete and utter train wreck- so much so that they went out and made the emergency signing of Orton. Why does no one ever remember this? It wasn't that long ago guys.

 

This is correct. If you think Manuel played good or even decent vs. Chicago and Miami, you just don't know what you're watching. Defense was lights out both games, and the offense sputtered horribly vs. Miami until CJ took a kick return to the house to finally break it open. Chicago also had one of the worst secondaries in the NFL, which we really failed to exploit. Yes we won, but that does not mean our QB had great games.

[metzelaars_lives]

 

This is correct. If you think Manuel played good or even decent vs. Chicago and Miami, you just don't know what you're watching. Defense was lights out both games, and the offense sputtered horribly vs. Miami until CJ took a kick return to the house to finally break it open. Chicago also had one of the worst secondaries in the NFL, which we really failed to exploit. Yes we won, but that does not mean our QB had great games.

He was an effective game manager in the first two games last year, I'll give him that. But at no point was I thinking he'd somehow arrived.

[ko12010]

Again, everyone always points to the four games. I care way less about his performance in those last two games than I do about the fact that his entire 2014 offseason and preseason was a complete and utter train wreck- so much so that they went out and made the emergency signing of Orton. Why does no one ever remember this? It wasn't that long ago guys.

Orton wasn't an 'emergency' signing. Plenty of reports indicate the BIlls had been coaxing him out of retirement since the Spring and trying to get him in. So it was simply the continuation of the original plan to develop EJ behind a veteran.

 

This is correct. If you think Manuel played good or even decent vs. Chicago and Miami, you just don't know what you're watching. Defense was lights out both games, and the offense sputtered horribly vs. Miami until CJ took a kick return to the house to finally break it open. Chicago also had one of the worst secondaries in the NFL, which we really failed to exploit. Yes we won, but that does not mean our QB had great games.

Who said he had 'great' games? He looked good, and yeah, I know what I'm watching, thanks buddy. He also looked like a very young QB who needed MORE playing time.

[metzelaars_lives]

Orton wasn't an 'emergency' signing. Plenty of reports indicate the BIlls had been coaxing him out of retirement since the Spring and trying to get him in. So it was simply the continuation of the original plan to develop EJ behind a veteran.

 

Who said he had 'great' games? He looked good, and yeah, I know what I'm watching, thanks buddy. He also looked like a very young QB who needed MORE playing time.

OK you win, EJ was good last summer and preseason.