fridge Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 In 2013, Ryan Tannehill second year in NFL his stats were 58% com pct.12 tds and 13 int. 76.1 QB rating. that's 16 games second year in NFL. Manuel after 14 games 58% com pct.16 tds. and 12 int. and only going into his 3rd year in the NFL you want to cut him. Not saying he is a going to be all pro, but I think he has chance to start in the NFL.. Taylor doesn't have any starts in the NFL, but he has been in the NFL two years longer. I like both Taylor and Manuel I want both of them to do good. If Taylor starts I hope he can last the entire year. Would be nice to have two decent young QBs. No, you see Tennehill is awesome, and EJ sucks. That's the narrative we've been told, and we must stick to it. Please remove the facts, I've seen EJ throw an incomplete pass.
BackInDaDay Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) remember how your HS math teacher would ask you to 'show your work' when solving test problems? i'm thinking this was to verify whether you had an awareness of how to solve the problems. it let the teacher know that you were able to recognize what steps should be taken in solving the problem before processing them correctly - or it exposed where you got lost, so you could learn to avoid the same mistake in the future. if you were coaching the Bills offense, you might work with your defensive colleagues during practice, to present your QBs with situations that should lead them to a particular response. if they didn't respond as expected, you'd be able to correct whatever mistakes they made while processing what they saw. then you'd expect to see them correct their mistakes in similar situations. from the amount of snaps EJ's been getting the last couple weeks - i have a feeling that he's repeating his mistakes at a rate that must be frustrating to Rex and Roman. unfortunately for him, this makes his beautiful 50 yard TD strike as comforting as a student who fails their test, but does correctly guess an answer or two. edit.. can one Buffalo reporter ask Rex how far a distance there is between where EJ is, and where they want him to be? because even if he's not as close as TT and MC, is he close enough that whatever work he gets as a #3 in season will be enough to help him close the gap? if he's got an upside, will they continue to nurture his development, or pass him off? Edited August 17, 2015 by BackInDaDay
Rubes Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 No, you see Tennehill is awesome, and EJ sucks. That's the narrative we've been told, and we must stick to it. Please remove the facts, I've seen EJ throw an incomplete pass. But it went into the hospitality tent. The hospitality tent, for the love of all that is holy!!
fridge Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 remember how your HS math teacher would ask you to 'show your work' when solving test problems? i'm thinking this was to verify whether you had an awareness of how to solve the problems. it let the teacher know that you were able to recognize what steps should be taken in solving the problem before processing them correctly - or it exposed where you got lost, so you could learn to avoid the same mistake in the future. if you were coaching the Bills offense, you might work with your defensive colleagues during practice, to present your QBs with situations that should lead them to a particular response. if they didn't respond as expected, you'd be able to correct whatever mistakes they made while processing what they saw. then you'd expect to see them correct their mistakes in similar situations. from the amount of snaps EJ's been getting the last couple weeks - i have a feeling that he's repeating his mistakes at a rate that must be frustrating to Rex and Roman. unfortunately for him, this makes his beautiful 50 yard TD strike as comforting as a student who fails their test, but does correctly guess an answer or two. The only problem with this, is that the scrimmage and preseason game did not have repeated mistakes at a frustrating rate. But it went into the hospitality tent. The hospitality tent, for the love of all that is holy!! Yes it did. Even EJ's incomplete passes are more impressive than the other QB's.
TheFunPolice Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 It's kind of counter-intuitive but there's a reason why training camp and practice is just as important as the pre-season games: in practice and at camp they are actually practicing the real offense. Calls, signals, formations, etc. In the pre-season games it's total vanilla as to show nothing on tape for week 1. That's why you might hear a difference between camp practices and the pre-season games or scrimmages. It's possible that EJ is not showing a command of their actual offense but he can lob up a deep pass once in a while to get people all excited.
The Wiz Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 It's kind of counter-intuitive but there's a reason why training camp and practice is just as important as the pre-season games: in practice and at camp they are actually practicing the real offense. Calls, signals, formations, etc. In the pre-season games it's total vanilla as to show nothing on tape for week 1. That's why you might hear a difference between camp practices and the pre-season games or scrimmages. It's possible that EJ is not showing a command of their actual offense but he can lob up a deep pass once in a while to get people all excited. So we shouldn't read into the TT running all over the place in the preseason games then?
26CornerBlitz Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 It's kind of counter-intuitive but there's a reason why training camp and practice is just as important as the pre-season games: in practice and at camp they are actually practicing the real offense. Calls, signals, formations, etc. In the pre-season games it's total vanilla as to show nothing on tape for week 1. That's why you might hear a difference between camp practices and the pre-season games or scrimmages. It's possible that EJ is not showing a command of their actual offense but he can lob up a deep pass once in a while to get people all excited. That isn't the problem at all as all reports are that he knows the offense. It's his lack of consistent accuracy that sometimes prevents completions that are there to be made. I love your characterization of the great pass he threw in the game against Carolina.
quinnearlysghost88 Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 No, you see Tennehill is awesome, and EJ sucks. That's the narrative we've been told, and we must stick to it. Please remove the facts, I've seen EJ throw an incomplete pass. Miami Dolphins 2012: 7-9 2013: 8-8 2014: 8-8 Am i missing something? The narrative should be they're both mediocre.
MDH Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 The only problem with this, is that the scrimmage and preseason game did not have repeated mistakes at a frustrating rate. Well, there's that and there's also the entire part he just made up in his head about what's going on behind closed doors and how the coaches feel.
bigK14094 Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 Losman, Edwards and Brohm were all horrible QBs. Manuel hasn't been around long enough for anyone to know whether or not he's horrible; I think he's getting close to proving that he's never going to be better than "good." And different regimes were in place when all of these guys came through. So to say that the Bills, or any team, really, has a history of ruining good QBs can't really be done, in my opinion. You forgot Todd Collins.....who was ruined in Buffalo, but managed to stay in the league for 15 years. My hope here is that EJ makes good, but, I don't want a repeat of the Losman situation, where he stayed and played out his rookie contract (5 years) and didn't get another legit shot in the league as everybody knew he couldn't do it. So, if you keep EJ this year, that means he gets a shot again next year........which would be year 4....getting into Losman territory here. On the other hand....both Cassel and Taylor are on 1 year contracts....you cut EJ and the Bills might have Zero QB's going into next year, which would leave Whaley scaping the bottom of the barrell again. Actually, I do think he did pretty good picking up Taylor and Cassell...and we aren''t as bad at QB as we would have been if we had stayed with Tuel and Lewis.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 You forgot Todd Collins.....who was ruined in Buffalo, but managed to stay in the league for 15 years. My hope here is that EJ makes good, but, I don't want a repeat of the Losman situation, where he stayed and played out his rookie contract (5 years) and didn't get another legit shot in the league as everybody knew he couldn't do it. So, if you keep EJ this year, that means he gets a shot again next year........which would be year 4....getting into Losman territory here. On the other hand....both Cassel and Taylor are on 1 year contracts....you cut EJ and the Bills might have Zero QB's going into next year, which would leave Whaley scaping the bottom of the barrell again. Actually, I do think he did pretty good picking up Taylor and Cassell...and we aren''t as bad at QB as we would have been if we had stayed with Tuel and Lewis. Tyrod is on a 2 year contract with a 3rd year option
BuffaloBob Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 I'll just let things sort out since I am unable to do the Vulcan Mind Meld with Ryan to know exactly what he is thinking. However, it would not make a whole lot of sense to have a QB you think might be the starter have reps primarily if not entirely with the third string, which is what is happening at the moment with EJ. So it seems to me that either EJ is relegated to third string or Ryan is an idiot. Since Ryan seemed to make a mess of the QB situation with the Jets, the later possibility isn't entirely remote. You do know EJ got a bunch of reps with the twos today, right?
BackInDaDay Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 The only problem with this, is that the scrimmage and preseason game did not have repeated mistakes at a frustrating rate. i was primarily talking about a controlled practice environment, but the fact that EJ couldn't impress the staff enough with his performance in either the scrimmage or preseason game, only confirms that he's not 'getting it'. i wanted very much for him to take control and earn the starter's job.. failing that, i wanted him to earn the backup.. but it's not what i want or you want, or what EJ wants.. it's what can he do.
FireChan Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 No, you see Tennehill is awesome, and EJ sucks. That's the narrative we've been told, and we must stick to it. Please remove the facts, I've seen EJ throw an incomplete pass. If EJ throws for 4k yards and 20+ TD's this year, I think everyone will call him awesome.
BackInDaDay Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 Well, there's that and there's also the entire part he just made up in his head about what's going on behind closed doors and how the coaches feel. its a coach's job to teach players to get better.. that means testing / challenging them in practice, in order to understand where they need improvement, and then teaching them how to improve. i don't know how well EJ, or any other player on this professional roster responds to being taught, but i do know that this is what coaches and trainers do - in every sport - at every level.
fridge Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 If EJ throws for 4k yards and 20+ TD's this year, I think everyone will call him awesome. The post I was referring to showed the similarities between EJ's first 14 games and how it's better than Tannehill's first 16. From a comparative standpoint, the argument is: why the pitchforks and torches now, when EJ's ceiling is potentially higher than Tannehill's, and he showed no greater signs at this point in his career than EJ? You do understand that the people who want EJ to start, want him to start because that's a good way to groom someone into being a franchise quarterback, right? I'm not saying that EJ is the end-all-be-all, but I am saying that it's ludicrous for everyone to give up on him when he's performing on par or better than most franchise QB's at this point in their career. If the Bills decide to go with Cassel, and we perform in the 10 win range and make the playoffs this year or next because of our defense (and I'm not saying that playing EJ in any way negates making the playoffs), that's great and all - but come 2017 we've got no franchise QB and an aging defense. Oh, the solution is to draft one you say? Well unless it's Andrew Luck he's going to need a few years to figure it out. You have clearly proven that you won't give that guy those years, so now what? Rinse and repeat, I suppose.
metzelaars_lives Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) In 2013, Ryan Tannehill second year in NFL his stats were 58% com pct.12 tds and 13 int. 76.1 QB rating. that's 16 games second year in NFL. Manuel after 14 games 58% com pct.16 tds. and 12 int. and only going into his 3rd year in the NFL you want to cut him. Not saying he is a going to be all pro, but I think he has chance to start in the NFL.. Taylor doesn't have any starts in the NFL, but he has been in the NFL two years longer. I like both Taylor and Manuel I want both of them to do good. If Taylor starts I hope he can last the entire year. Would be nice to have two decent young QBs. Well that was actually his first year as a true rookie. His second year, he threw for 24 TD's and 17 INT's and almost 4,000 yards. But I think it's pretty clear that Tannehill has hit his ceiling and has no more room to improve. I mean granted, he only started playing the position of QB five years ago but folks, we've seen what he can do. All he does is throw short passes. With Manuel, his ceiling is limitless. I wouldn't trade Manuel for Tannehill right now. I don't want a guy who is guaranteed to never be better than a competent, middle of the pack QB and has hit his ceiling after a mere three years in the league. I like the mystery of the unknown with Manuel. He's big, strong, can move, he's got a rocket for an arm and he's a natural born leader. Hey if "Moron" didn't intentionally ruin him last year, I have no doubt he'd be running away with this QB competition. To me, Tannehill is more Meh than Manuel. Edited August 17, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
fridge Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 Well that was actually his first year as a true rookie. His second year, he threw for 24 TD's and 17 INT's and almost 4,000 yards. But I think it's pretty clear that Tannehill has hit his ceiling and has no more room to improve. I mean granted, he only started playing the position of QB five years ago but folks, we've seen what he can do. All he does is throw short passes. With Manuel, his ceiling is limitless. I wouldn't trade Manuel for Tannehill right now. I don't want a guy who is guaranteed to never be better than a competent, middle of the pack QB and has hit his ceiling after a mere three years in the league. I like the mystery of the unknown with Manuel. He's big, strong, can move, he's got a rocket for an arm and he's a natural born leader. Hey if "Moron" didn't intentionally ruin him last year, I have no doubt he'd be running away with this QB competition. To me, Tannehill is more Meh than Manuel. how old are you?
metzelaars_lives Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 The post I was referring to showed the similarities between EJ's first 14 games and how it's better than Tannehill's first 16. From a comparative standpoint, the argument is: why the pitchforks and torches now, when EJ's ceiling is potentially higher than Tannehill's, and he showed no greater signs at this point in his career than EJ? You do understand that the people who want EJ to start, want him to start because that's a good way to groom someone into being a franchise quarterback, right? I'm not saying that EJ is the end-all-be-all, but I am saying that it's ludicrous for everyone to give up on him when he's performing on par or better than most franchise QB's at this point in their career. If the Bills decide to go with Cassel, and we perform in the 10 win range and make the playoffs this year or next because of our defense (and I'm not saying that playing EJ in any way negates making the playoffs), that's great and all - but come 2017 we've got no franchise QB and an aging defense. Oh, the solution is to draft one you say? Well unless it's Andrew Luck he's going to need a few years to figure it out. You have clearly proven that you won't give that guy those years, so now what? Rinse and repeat, I suppose. +(how do I insert the infinity sign on here??) You have hit the nail on the head. For a first round pick in his third camp, Manuel looks amazing. At worst, he's well ahead of where he should be. It's a shame the Bills brass doesn't see it like us. I posted the same thing on here yesterday- I don't care about winning some silly playoff game. I want a franchise QB. And if that means the Bills suffer through a couple 8 win seasons with EJ, then so be it. By 2017-18 or so, the guy is guaranteed to be a complete stud. And I'm sure Kyle Williams and the vets on D would agree with us. People just refuse to see the bigger picture.
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