IDBillzFan Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 When the difference between candidates is a guy beholden to only himself vs. one beholden to special interests, who do you take? The one who is beholden to the people. Oh, wait. That's none of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Populism sells. That's the TL;DR version of that over-vocabularized mess of a post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) Except Regan had some core conservative values, e.g., the government should butt out instead of trying to "help" every need that floats in the miasma that perfumes the American political consciousness. I don't think they are alike at all. I think the way they got/get votes is alike. Edited February 1, 2016 by 4merper4mer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 The one who is beholden to the people. Oh, wait. That's none of them. You can always take your ball and go home. I wouldn't blame ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 You can always take your ball and go home. I wouldn't blame ya. I live in California. I don't get a ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 When the difference between candidates is a guy beholden to only himself vs. one beholden to special interests, who do you take? When that guy is a thin skinned narcissistic carnival barker, I take the guy who listens to special interests all the time, for the simple reason that there are many special interests vying for the executive's ear and a successful executive usually does a decent job of balancing the needs & advice of those special interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 When that guy is a thin skinned narcissistic carnival barker, I take the guy who listens to special interests all the time, for the simple reason that there are many special interests vying for the executive's ear and a successful executive usually does a decent job of balancing the needs & advice of those special interests. I don't think that's a possibility anymore. I live in California. I don't get a ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 a successful executive usually does a decent job of balancing the needs & advice of those special interests. Can you give us an example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Can you give us an example? I think Obama has been an awful executive, but even he balances out the various priorities. Yet the reason that I think he's awful, is that most decisions don't follow special interests but his vision of where the country should go, not what's best for the country. That's why I think Trump is going to be awful as a President - he'll be a more reactionary, thinner skinned Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 That's why I think Trump is going to be awful as a President - he'll be a more reactionary, thinner skinned Obama. If Obama's skin was any thinner, he'd have a reservoir tip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 If Obama's skin was any thinner, he'd have a reservoir tip You know Trump. Always wants to be the best, finest, thinnest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 You know Trump. Always wants to be the best, finest, thinnest. The problem is that the Trump's wants, for many voters, are enough. You and I and many people know his train will wreck. And it will probably wreck against Hillary and we'll have to watch as she gets away with spitting in the face of the parents of fallen heroes. There is nothing more disgusting. A large part of the blame for this vile result falls at the feet of the party which trots out losers like Rubio and Jeb. You simply cannot get mad at voters for rejecting this garbage. No matter how much they look down at people....even an infant won't eat a tird just because mama puts it in a spoon and tries to shove it down their throat. This creates opportunities for scheisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 The problem is that the Trump's wants, for many voters, are enough. You and I and many people know his train will wreck. And it will probably wreck against Hillary and we'll have to watch as she gets away with spitting in the face of the parents of fallen heroes. There is nothing more disgusting. A large part of the blame for this vile result falls at the feet of the party which trots out losers like Rubio and Jeb. You simply cannot get mad at voters for rejecting this garbage. No matter how much they look down at people....even an infant won't eat a tird just because mama puts it in a spoon and tries to shove it down their throat. This creates opportunities for scheisters. With talk like that, you should vote Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) So what you're saying is that you don't believe what he is saying that he is going to do and you think that he is a liar. You also think that he is only effective because he is selling youth elixir to the geriatric and wisdom juice to the young and inexperienced. Ok. You don't like him personally or stylistically and feel that he is a blowhard. Ok. I'm not disagreeing with you nor am I saying that he is going to save the country. But what I am saying is that his brand and candidacy is an original one and the rest of the field are carbon copies of each other and caricatures of their own selves. For kicks watch the 2008 republican gop debates (I have two recorded on dvd that I would be willing to send to you). The candidates say the exact same things. Exactly. It's like playing pink Floyd over "Wizard of Oz" at the second roar of the lion. It's uncannily familiar and repetitive. It's the same ****. They say the same ****. Their about the same **** ... every year, cyclically and ad infinitum. Trump may not bring anything that he claims. But at least the **** that he says is offered genuinely and without the type of background noise, distortion, prevarication, and hedging that every other candidacy, every other year, seems to offer in spades. Every other candidate is saying what he is saying. They're just indirect, and offer allusions, and express their "sales tactic" with more political adroitness. They are all trying to tap into the central nerve of the country's dissatisfaction. That's why theyre all complaining about "Washington" (even though they're mostly in congress) and distancing themselves from anyone who looks "establishment" ... unless they need money. Trump is just doing it better. And I believe "better," in this context, relates to his comfortability being himself and expressing his unadulterated beliefs rather than the other candidates who filter themselves through some instrumentality of risk-averse political correctness that is designed to sustain their political efficacy and sustainability past this election cycle. Cruz, Rubio, and Christie are thinking as much about being viable in 2020-2024 as they are about winning now. So much calculation and hedging in the **** they say. They are professional political candidates and the country is over that ****. I believe that the country can detect Trump's sincerity even as its articulated maniacally and indelicately. In contrast, it seems that you believe that he is saying whatever he needs to and there is no substance behind his words. I guess we will see which one is correct - your incredulousness or the country's embracing of a sui generis political type. For the record, I may be willing to see if that level of 'whatever you want to call it' will translate into a different direction that the country hasn't experienced during the last 50 years of carbon copy politicians. And maybe, just maybe, Trumps "tapping into blah blah ..." just honesty reflects how he feels about ****. I will give you all the credit in the world if you actually know what Trump feels or wants, because all I hear from him is, "I don't know what is going on, but those guys are screwing it up, and if you elect me I will fix the thing that I don't know, but know that isn't working. But, there's one more thing. I won't reveal how I'm going to fix it until I'm elected. " Admit it, you have a lot Ronco products at home, don't you? Edited February 1, 2016 by GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I will give you all the credit in the world if you actually know what Trump feels or wants, because all I hear from him is, "I don't know what is going on, but those guys are screwing it up, and if you elect me I will fix the thing that I don't know, but know that isn't working. But, there's one more thing. I won't reveal how I'm going to fix it until I'm elected. " Admit it, you have a lot Ronco products at home, don't you? You left out the part where everyone knows that any of the other alternatives will screw it up with 100% certainty. I'm not one of them, but many Americans seem to feel like voting for Trump is like throwing a Hail Mary, going for two and getting the onside kick to stay in the game. Unfortunately he will probably nominate Andy Reid for VP to manage the clock in these desperate times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 You left out the part where everyone knows that any of the other alternatives will screw it up with 100% certainty. I'm not one of them, but many Americans seem to feel like voting for Trump is like throwing a Hail Mary, going for two and getting the onside kick to stay in the game. Unfortunately he will probably nominate Andy Reid for VP to manage the clock in these desperate times. That's an interesting analogy that the greatest nation in the world would feel that it needs to throw a Hail Mary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 You left out the part where everyone knows that any of the other alternatives will screw it up with 100% certainty. I'm not one of them, but many Americans seem to feel like voting for Trump is like throwing a Hail Mary, going for two and getting the onside kick to stay in the game. Unfortunately he will probably nominate Andy Reid for VP to manage the clock in these desperate times. Well, using this thread as an indictment, I haven't read too many folks presenting cases for any other viable candidate. You want to say Trump is the worst, and sucks, fine. But the last 10 pages of the "GOP" thread have been exactly about one single person. I haven't read a case in 3 weeks for any other GOP candidate. It's anti-Hilary, anti-Bernie, anti-Trump over and over and over. If one of these "alternatives" can't even be presented in this topic, what does that say about them? That they're great candidates for election? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Well, using this thread as an indictment, I haven't read too many folks presenting cases for any other viable candidate. You want to say Trump is the worst, and sucks, fine. But the last 10 pages of the "GOP" thread have been exactly about one single person. I haven't read a case in 3 weeks for any other GOP candidate. It's anti-Hilary, anti-Bernie, anti-Trump over and over and over. If one of these "alternatives" can't even be presented in this topic, what does that say about them? That they're great candidates for election? You shouldn't be surprised that just like the regular debates, the air in this conversation is sucked out by The Donald. The case for the other candidates is fragmented because it's such a diverse field and fully expected this early in the race. I've said before, I prefer governors from large states because they are battle tested in the legislative process. Another thing that scares me about Trump is that he probably won't shy away from using the imperial powers of the executive to force his will. And that's the big question about Cruz's supposed Constitutionalist credentials, will he reverse Obama's kingdom of the Presidency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 You shouldn't be surprised that just like the regular debates, the air in this conversation is sucked out by The Donald. The case for the other candidates is fragmented because it's such a diverse field and fully expected this early in the race. I've said before, I prefer governors from large states because they are battle tested in the legislative process. Another thing that scares me about Trump is that he probably won't shy away from using the imperial powers of the executive to force his will. And that's the big question about Cruz's supposed Constitutionalist credentials, will he reverse Obama's kingdom of the Presidency? Malarkey. You can't on one hand sit there and say that everyone dazzled by the Trump show is a moron and that you're above his antics, and on the other say he's the reason that no one, including yourself, is talking about the other GOPers. If you prefer Governor's from large states, who is your candidate of choice? Or are you waiting for a savior to jump in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I've said before, I prefer governors from large states because they are battle tested in the legislative process. Another thing that scares me about Trump is that he probably won't shy away from using the imperial powers of the executive to force his will. Funny...that's the reason I'm starting to lean towards voting for him. The only way the imperial powers of the presidency are going to be reined in is if someone in the office abuses it so badly that both parties unify to restore the constitutional balance to the government. And Trump may very well be that man. Yes, I'll consider voting for Trump, because I'm coming to the conclusion that we have to destroy the country to save it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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