FireChan Posted August 9, 2015 Posted August 9, 2015 I don't understand some of the logic here. What happened at the bar, in the car, anywhere else DOESN'T MATTER. The second that girl said no and Kane pushed it, it's rape. Period. Doesn't matter if she was all over him at the bar or seemed flirty. She has the right to say no and if she did then Kane should've stopped. Period. End of discussion. No means no, not its open for interpretation. No one is claiming Kane was justified raping this girl. I don't know why you're on this self-evident tangent.
plenzmd1 Posted August 9, 2015 Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) So we're just pretending those actions don't point to probabilities? C'mon.That is 100% correct. No is no , what she did even two seconds before matters not... If she said " stop" , " no" etc, how she was acting does not matter. Nor should it in my mind. I am still in disbelief the News published those quotes when this guy has everything to lose if found Kane was gametes and he served him well into Kane being hammered. No one is claiming Kane was justified raping this girl. I don't know why you're on this self-evident tangent.I may have misunderstood, bought I thought you meant that causet the bar owner inferred woman was all over Kane, that we can somehow infer she prolly said yes and is now looking for a payday. Sorry if I misinterpreted. Edited August 9, 2015 by plenzmd1
FireChan Posted August 9, 2015 Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) That is 100% correct. No is no , what she did even two seconds before matters not... If she said " stop" , " no" etc, how she was acting does not matter. Nor should it in my mind. I am still in disbelief the News published those quotes when this guy has everything to lose if found Kane was gametes and he served him well into Kane being hammered. I may have misunderstood, bought I thought you meant that causet the bar owner inferred woman was all over Kane, that we can somehow infer she prolly said yes and is now looking for a payday. Sorry if I misinterpreted. No. That's not what I meant. Lemme try a new way. Hypothetical solution. There are two girls. One of them is sitting on a guy's lap all night, laughing at his jokes, clearly into him/flirting. The other girl is not doing any of those things. The guy takes each of them into a room, where sexual contact occurs. Which one is more likely to have consented? Clearly the one that has been flirting with him. Does it mean she did? No. Does it mean she "probably" did? Not necessarily. But I'd still say it's more likely than the other case. And looking in from the view of a jury, if that was the only evidence, that shadow of a doubt would be enough to not convict Kane. And that's why the bar report matters. Even though obviously no means no and all that stuff. I'm not saying she deserved it, or played him on, or anything else. Just probabilities and how it looks. Edited August 9, 2015 by FireChan
Johnny Hammersticks Posted August 9, 2015 Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) It only means nothing because there were no rapey vibes in the bar. It provides no evidence that a rape occurred, which is something. I guess this was my point. Well stated. "Rapey vibes"? lmao Edited August 9, 2015 by Johnny Hammersticks
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 9, 2015 Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) I don't understand some of the logic here. What happened at the bar, in the car, anywhere else DOESN'T MATTER. The second that girl said no and Kane pushed it, it's rape. Period. Doesn't matter if she was all over him at the bar or seemed flirty. She has the right to say no and if she did then Kane should've stopped. Period. End of discussion. No means no, not its open for interpretation.Exactly! That's all I am trying to say. "Quid pro quo" simply does NOT factor (usually for the male) in. At least my SHARP/POSH training has sunk in, same with you! We take this every year and it is amazing how many guys simply fight it and think it is open to debate. They are wrong. Like you said, end of discussion. If it comes out that this stuff is true... He's the worst kind of rapist! That is if you can put an amount of degree on levels of rapists. The dude is a puke and not a man. He's anything but what a man is. Doesn't he have a mother? Sisters? You think he wants them violated like this lady is claiming? Sad and disgusting display of human waste if it is true. I am stunned. Edited August 9, 2015 by ExiledInIllinois
plenzmd1 Posted August 9, 2015 Posted August 9, 2015 No. That's not what I meant. Lemme try a new way. Hypothetical solution. There are two girls. One of them is sitting on a guy's lap all night, laughing at his jokes, clearly into him/flirting. The other girl is not doing any of those things. The guy takes each of them into a room, where sexual contact occurs. Which one is more likely to have consented? Clearly the one that has been flirting with him. Does it mean she did? No. Does it mean she "probably" did? Not necessarily. But I'd still say it's more likely than the other case. And looking in from the view of a jury, if that was the only evidence, that shadow of a doubt would be enough to not convict Kane. And that's why the bar report matters. Even though obviously no means no and all that stuff. I'm not saying she deserved it, or played him on, or anything else. Just probabilities and how it looks. I don't if the jury thing is correct, but I could be dead wrong. As I mentioned, the bar owner does not even know if this girl he is talking about is the girl accusing Kane. i felt very irresponsible on the News to publish that article today.
gomper Posted August 9, 2015 Posted August 9, 2015 I don't if the jury thing is correct, but I could be dead wrong. As I mentioned, the bar owner does not even know if this girl he is talking about is the girl accusing Kane. i felt very irresponsible on the News to publish that article today. http://www.dailypublic.com/articles/08092015/why-mark-croce-went-news-about-pat-kane
FireChan Posted August 9, 2015 Posted August 9, 2015 I don't if the jury thing is correct, but I could be dead wrong. As I mentioned, the bar owner does not even know if this girl he is talking about is the girl accusing Kane. i felt very irresponsible on the News to publish that article today. I posted prior to that "Assuming they are the same woman."
plenzmd1 Posted August 9, 2015 Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) http://www.dailypublic.com/articles/08092015/why-mark-croce-went-news-about-pat-kane Almost my exact thoughts....and I am not saying Kane is guilty...I am saying have no idea Edited August 9, 2015 by plenzmd1
FireChan Posted August 9, 2015 Posted August 9, 2015 Exactly! That's all I am trying to say. "Quid pro quo" simply does NOT factor (usually for the male) in. At least my SHARP/POSH training has sunk in, same with you! We take this every year and it is amazing how many guys simply fight it and think it is open to debate. They are wrong. Like you said, end of discussion. If it comes out that this stuff is true... He's the worst kind of rapist! That is if you can put an amount of degree on levels of rapists. The dude is a puke and not a man. He's anything but what a man is. Doesn't he have a mother? Sisters? You think he wants them violated like this lady is claiming? Sad and disgusting display of human waste if it is true. I am stunned. Luckily no one is arguing that.
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 9, 2015 Posted August 9, 2015 http://www.dailypublic.com/articles/08092015/why-mark-croce-went-news-about-pat-kane Wow!
NoSaint Posted August 10, 2015 Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) No. That's not what I meant. Lemme try a new way. Hypothetical solution. There are two girls. One of them is sitting on a guy's lap all night, laughing at his jokes, clearly into him/flirting. The other girl is not doing any of those things. The guy takes each of them into a room, where sexual contact occurs. Which one is more likely to have consented? Clearly the one that has been flirting with him. Does it mean she did? No. Does it mean she "probably" did? Not necessarily. But I'd still say it's more likely than the other case. And looking in from the view of a jury, if that was the only evidence, that shadow of a doubt would be enough to not convict Kane. And that's why the bar report matters. Even though obviously no means no and all that stuff. I'm not saying she deserved it, or played him on, or anything else. Just probabilities and how it looks. which if guessing who would you predict would be more prone to engage in consensual sex later? Sure, the one displaying interest But your leaving out the part where she walks out of the room and claims rape, and I'm not comfortable saying "she was flirting so it's more likely she is lying about being raped." Maybe she is, but I really don't care if they danced, or kissed, or held hands at a bar when evaluating whether her rape claim is more or less true. Edited August 10, 2015 by NoSaint
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 10, 2015 Posted August 10, 2015 Can the Kanes steal a play out of the Kennedy playbook? Rapists, booze, death, they all walk. Teddy had Joe Sr. How's Kaner gonna get off this one? Superstar status... The do-re-mi... Almost everybody I talked that are Blackhawks fans seem disgusted... They are disgusted in the local media here. It isn't as medieval here, but I betcha it can be! :-/ which if guessing would you predict would be more prone to engage in consensual sex later? Sure, the one displaying interest But your leaving out the part where she walks out of the room and claims rape, and I'm not comfortable saying "she was flirting so it's more likely she is lying about being raped." Maybe she is, but I really don't care if they danced, or kissed, or held hands at a bar when evaluating whether her rape claim is more or less true. It all reduces down to he said, she said. The immediate medical attention, results will tip the scale either way. I know one is "innocent until proven guilty." IMO, there may be no way to prove his innocence if in fact the medical e v a l points to rape. Did you read the part about statutory... Crazy, does that mean the victim could be 16 (I think it is 16 in NYS?) or younger? Yikes.
bbb Posted August 10, 2015 Posted August 10, 2015 Wow! Wow what? Alan Bedenko is an extreme ahole - he hates everything. WBEN, the Buffalo News, sports (really hates sports), successful businessmen. He's supposedly a lawyer but I hope he's not billing clients for all the time he's blogging and arguing on twitter. He's not from WNY. I don't have any idea why he's even here. Can somebody tell me what his opening few paragraphs has to do with Kane, this case, Croce, anything?: We can Buffalove ourselves to death, but someday this region will undergo a social and cultural enlightenment that’s been far too long in coming. Don’t let the shiny new buildings and downtown playgrounds kid you—we’re still downright medieval in other areas. Whether it’s over 40s in Lanacaster desperately refusing to let go of base racism, or our continued tolerance of political leaders who express hatred and prejudice with impunity, western New York has a long way to go before it truly becomes the city of “good neighbors” it claims to be. Call American Indians “redskins”, you’re not being a good neighbor. Spit out “Damn Asians” or “n***”, you’re not being a good neighbor. Although you knew that, too many of our “neighbors” don’t. Let’s turn now to this story about the allegations that hockey star and very wealthy local Patrick Kane raped a woman.
Lurker Posted August 10, 2015 Posted August 10, 2015 Wow! Absolute nonsense. This writer's dancing at the edge of a defamation case. Doesn't surprise me though, given the nature of that "publication." :...a full 80% of that article — give or take — is devoted to SkyBar owner Mark Croce going out of his way to portray Kane’s accuser as a lying, gold-digging whore of a B word."
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 10, 2015 Posted August 10, 2015 Wow what? Alan Bedenko is an extreme ahole - he hates everything. WBEN, the Buffalo News, sports (really hates sports), successful businessmen. He's supposedly a lawyer but I hope he's not billing clients for all the time he's blogging and arguing on twitter. He's not from WNY. I don't have any idea why he's even here. Can somebody tell me what his opening few paragraphs has to do with Kane, this case, Croce, anything?: We can Buffalove ourselves to death, but someday this region will undergo a social and cultural enlightenment thats been far too long in coming. Dont let the shiny new buildings and downtown playgrounds kid youwere still downright medieval in other areas. Whether its over 40s in Lanacaster desperately refusing to let go of base racism, or our continued tolerance of political leaders who express hatred and prejudice with impunity, western New York has a long way to go before it truly becomes the city of good neighbors it claims to be. Call American Indians redskins, youre not being a good neighbor. Spit out Damn Asians or n***, youre not being a good neighbor. Although you knew that, too many of our neighbors dont. Lets turn now to this story about the allegations that hockey star and very wealthy local Patrick Kane raped a woman. Sadly he is right. I don't know why I am opening my fat trap here and getting all sad by this mess. I will just end up getting ripped a new one. Sorry for piling on my hometown... But I go back almost every other month for the last 2 decades. Other places have evolved more over that period. It isn't very culturally diverse especially coming from where I am here. I know that seems hard to believe. We all have our worts. Maybe because this (here) is really my home now. There is no denying the parochialism that is South BFLO... The pockets of homgeneity. My own family scares me. The same that is exhibited w/the South Side Chicago Irish... But it is worse in BFLO. He's right. Harsh but right. I am going to take flak for this.... But so be it... And I go back to S.Cheektowaga/West Seneca. Yes, it can be downright culturally medieval. That's what I was talking about "wow." I tend to agree w/him and I love my hometown. I want to see it succeed, but there are issues it has to get past. Again... I am gonna take flak for this, so be it. It has been building in me for a long time. I guess this story makes it bubble out. I will just stop now let people have their peace w/me.
bbb Posted August 10, 2015 Posted August 10, 2015 I'm not going to give you flak for it. I'm just going to add a letter and call you a flake!.............Did you know what the meaning of Exiled was when you made up your screen name? Again, what the !@#$ does any of this have to do with Kane or Croce???
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted August 10, 2015 Posted August 10, 2015 http://www.dailypublic.com/articles/08092015/why-mark-croce-went-news-about-pat-kane It is unintentionally fund that the author (Alan Bedenkdo) writes about "over 40s in Lanacaster desperately refusing to let go of base racism, or our continued tolerance of political leaders who express hatred and prejudice with impunity, western New York has a long way to go before it truly becomes the city of “good neighbors” it claims to be", especially since Mr. Bedenko lives in the whitest community in WNY (Clarence) that is well-known for its exclusionary zoning and enforcement practices.
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 10, 2015 Posted August 10, 2015 Did you know what the meaning of Exiled was when you made up your screen name? Yes. PartiallyExiledInIllinois is too long. ;-) I really should change it to EricInIllinois, it still keeps the EiL. It has a lot to do w/... Kane's "South Buffaloness" has always been a problem. It is one hell of a place. It is unintentionally fund that the author (Alan Bedenkdo) writes about "over 40s in Lanacaster desperately refusing to let go of base racism, or our continued tolerance of political leaders who express hatred and prejudice with impunity, western New York has a long way to go before it truly becomes the city of good neighbors it claims to be", especially since Mr. Bedenko lives in the whitest community in WNY (Clarence) that is well-known for its exclusionary zoning and enforcement practices. Yeah... That will always be the dig on the area. Many pockets to escape to while calling others out. I admit, he isn't the best voice for his diatribe against the area... But others do see it. I wouldn't be the best either if I lived there, heck I am certainly not the best because I don't don't full time. Again he is harsh and I know that stings people. Is my liberal slip showing? ;-) ;-)
CountDorkula Posted August 10, 2015 Posted August 10, 2015 Yes. PartiallyExiledInIllinois is too long. ;-) I really should change it to EricInIllinois, it still keeps the EiL. It has a lot to do w/... Kane's "South Buffaloness" has always been a problem. It is one hell of a place. I have to agree with this. The South Buffalo pride is one thing that cannot be understated. I see all over Social media people from S Buffalo defending Kane. Ive also been part of a near brawl at Doc Sullivans because we "weren't from S Buffalo" But he is innocent until proven, I think people just need to learn to shut up, and think for two seconds before opening their stupid fat mouths.
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