Kiko article in Philly

[mannc]

Why do you say this? There is no evidence. Just because numbers dropped off a bit doesn't mean the player is in decline. If DeMarco Murray rushes for less than 1800 yards this year, is he declining?

Maybe it's not a steep decline, but it's a decline nonetheless. It doesn't mean he's not still a good back, it just means he probably will never put up numbers again like he did in 2013. It's not a slam; there are few RBs who are NOT in decline at his age with that number of touches.

[The Poojer]

I really like him as a player and wish to hell he was still on the Bills, but he comes off as kind of a meathead...

[Kirby Jackson]

has he got more from less? The talent in new Orleans on that offense is much, much better then Buffalos.

They have Brees and Payton. It has been run like the Patriots. They turned guys like Lance Moore and Khiry Robinson into good NFL players. When Moore when to Pittsburgh for a year he was a disaster. It is a machine in New Orleans on offense, much like New England. It has been all Payton and Brees. That is starting to turn though as Brees has gotten older and they will depend on Ingram, Spiller and Cooks to make plays.

[Doc]

kiko has more good years ahead of him the McCoy. On paper

And Murray may hit 1800 this year but how many more years will he be able to produce?

Kiko potential he has more good years ahead of him. But he's now an injury risk.

[nucci]

kiko has more good years ahead of him the McCoy. On paper

And Murray may hit 1800 this year but how many more years will he be able to produce?

I asked why does he think McCoy is in decline...Not comparing him to Kiko

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Restructure McCoy. Throw in a party planner.

[DC Greg]

Sigh... miss him already. I really hope McCoy is the absolute best RB in the league for us this year and moving forward. Kiko is going to be an absolute stud in this league.

[Bill from NYC]

 

 

Spiller is not an every down back, and never will be. He is not going to be a Thurman Thomas type of player who bounces off defenders. Spiller is not a between the tackles runner although that is where a high percentage of his runs were made. The problem I have with his persistent critics is that they emphasize what he isn't good at without acknowledging what he is terrific at i.e. making big plays when he has space to work with.

 

Let's see how productive Spiller is with Brees as his qb.? Brees is a quick release and accurate qb who will get the ball to Spiller in space with swing passes and short routes. In New Orleans Spiller will be used where he is most productive, not where he is least productive.

 

In your post you stressed how Spiller has difficulty processing information. If that is the case then present the information differently so he can better absorb and process it. As a runner Spiller doesn't have great instincts. So the solution to that deficiency is to put him in situations where he doesn't have to make those type of reads. Again, play to his strengths, not his weaknesses.

 

 

 

John the above are pretty big problems. How many great running backs were not instinctive? Even monsters like Earl Campbell and John Riggins seemed to know when to turn up field. And creating "space" for a runner looks great on paper, but few backs can always count on huge openings on almost every play, ala Emmit Smith.

Does Spiller have talent? Yep. And RJ and Losman had very good arms and both could even run. There are just too many flaws in Spiller's game my friend. Too many for a team to be able to depend on him. Another wasted draft selection.

[BADOLBILZ]

Maybe it's not a steep decline, but it's a decline nonetheless. It doesn't mean he's not still a good back, it just means he probably will never put up numbers again like he did in 2013. It's not a slam; there are few RBs who are NOT in decline at his age with that number of touches.

 

Well said. And it's not just the numbers.....the Eagles saw him every day and didn't like the trajectory he was on.

[BADOLBILZ]

You did very thorough job in describing Spiller's limitations. What you didn't do is list his assets and what he does exceptionally well. Name a player on offense who had more big plays than Spiller, even with his limited playing time? You don't think having one of the worst OLs and one of the worst qb play during his tenure had an affect on crimping his game, a game predicated on space?

 

Spiller is not an every down back, and never will be. He is not going to be a Thurman Thomas type of player who bounces off defenders. Spiller is not a between the tackles runner although that is where a high percentage of his runs were made. The problem I have with his persistent critics is that they emphasize what he isn't good at without acknowledging what he is terrific at i.e. making big plays when he has space to work with.

 

Let's see how productive Spiller is with Brees as his qb.? Brees is a quick release and accurate qb who will get the ball to Spiller in space with swing passes and short routes. In New Orleans Spiller will be used where he is most productive, not where he is least productive.

 

In your post you stressed how Spiller has difficulty processing information. If that is the case then present the information differently so he can better absorb and process it. As a runner Spiller doesn't have great instincts. So the solution to that deficiency is to put him in situations where he doesn't have to make those type of reads. Again, play to his strengths, not his weaknesses.

 

Good coaches accentuate players strengths and do their best to mask their limitations. The opposite was done in Buffalo. That is one of the reasons why this franchise has been a good example of what not to do. Don't be surprised now that Spiller is with a more astute coaching staff that he will be an important contributor to his new team.

 

People often confuse Spillers lack of understanding of where the play was designed to go with a lack of "instincts".

 

A large amount of his big plays are created by him not following the design of a play and in the process catching a defense that is expecting him to follow his blocking, off-guard.

 

Of course a lot more of the time those end up becoming fruitless efforts.

 

The All-22's do not lie.

 

I will also add that he is not smooth in the passing game.

 

He's hectic and often fights the football.

 

The further he gets downfield the harder his hands get and the hesitation he requires to make receptions negates much of the advantage his speed provides.

 

He's not an enigma as some people see him......he's just a guy who looks the part but only has a portion of what is necessary to be a great back.

[3rdand12]

John the above are pretty big problems. How many great running backs were not instinctive? Even monsters like Earl Campbell and John Riggins seemed to know when to turn up field. And creating "space" for a runner looks great on paper, but few backs can always count on huge openings on almost every play, ala Emmit Smith.

Does Spiller have talent? Yep. And RJ and Losman had very good arms and both could even run. There are just too many flaws in Spiller's game my friend. Too many for a team to be able to depend on him. Another wasted draft selection.

Spiller best trait was second gear for two reasons. First its one hell of a second> you can see it quite distinctly watching games. Especially under Chan.

I guess he stops thinking and just does.

That is what a coach needs to do for him. He is not a chess player when viewing the field, which is fine. Under the right circumstance. i expect N O will provide that opportunity much better than Marrone and Hackett did. I wish him well and think if he can make it work. I will be watching for him !

 

Kiko

man you guys are brutal.

His potential did not even have enough time to develop.

The kid could be as cognitive as Kuechly as far as play recognition and speed to the ball.

The knees will decide his fate, But i will root for him too.

McCoy trade.

I would rather a QB. But this is probably the next best thing along with Clay Felton and Harvin. The money does not gain interest if unspent in the NFL.

 

Its all good.

[Doc]

Well said. And it's not just the numbers.....the Eagles saw him every day and didn't like the trajectory he was on.

You could say the same about Kiko.

[JohnC]

John the above are pretty big problems. How many great running backs were not instinctive? Even monsters like Earl Campbell and John Riggins seemed to know when to turn up field. And creating "space" for a runner looks great on paper, but few backs can always count on huge openings on almost every play, ala Emmit Smith.

Does Spiller have talent? Yep. And RJ and Losman had very good arms and both could even run. There are just too many flaws in Spiller's game my friend. Too many for a team to be able to depend on him. Another wasted draft selection.

We have been dueling over the Spiller issue since he was drafted, and continue to do so even after his departure. I belatedly got you to come around on Gilmore, so there is still some hope (trace amount) for you to come around on this issue.

 

Spiller is no longer a Bill and he no longer is playing behind a less than mediocre line and playing with incapable qbs. Let's see how he does playing with Brees and with a HC who knows how to utilize the strengths of a uniquely talented back. In the not too distant future you will being watching highlights of a Saints's game and will say to yourself: gosh jolly another asset is traded away to another team contributing to their success.

 

The point I have unsuccessfully tried to make with you regarding Spiller is that although he is not a player who fits the conventional mold for a back and although it is easy to point out flaws in his game he still possesses sparkling assets that could be utilized to be an impactful player.

 

To be honest I am happy for Spiller because now he is with an organization that will wisely use his talents instead of being with a dullard organization that accentuates his limitations. Good coaching is not about highlighting what you can't do so much as it is allowing you to do what you can do best.

Spiller best trait was second gear for two reasons. First its one hell of a second> you can see it quite distinctly watching games. Especially under Chan.

I guess he stops thinking and just does.

That is what a coach needs to do for him. He is not a chess player when viewing the field, which is fine. Under the right circumstance. i expect N O will provide that opportunity much better than Marrone and Hackett did. I wish him well and think if he can make it work. I will be watching for him !

 

 

You are astute and perspicacious!

[3rdand12]

We have been dueling over the Spiller issue since he was drafted, and continue to do so even after his departure. I belatedly got you to come around on Gilmore, so there is still some hope (trace amount) for you to come around on this issue.

 

Spiller is no longer a Bill and he no longer is playing behind a less than mediocre line and playing with incapable qbs. Let's see how he does playing with Brees and with a HC who knows how to utilize the strengths of a uniquely talented back. In the not too distant future you will being watching highlights of a Saints's game and will say to yourself: gosh jolly another asset is traded away to another team contributing to their success.

 

The point I have unsuccessfully tried to make with you regarding Spiller is that although he is not a player who fits the conventional mold for a back and although it is easy to point out flaws in his game he still possesses sparkling assets that could be utilized to be an impactful player.

 

To be honest I am happy for Spiller because now he is with an organization that will wisely use his talents instead of being with a dullard organization that accentuates his limitations. Good coaching is not about highlighting what you can't do so much as it is allowing you to do what you can do best.

You are astute and perspicacious!

okay if there is going to be a veritable flourish of deceptively insidious, potentially derogatory name calling, and such. I will be implored to delegate yourself to an ignoble ignore status. Is that what you wish?

 

nearly as soon as i figure out how that feature works.

hopefully by then my temper will have settled down.

Go CJ ! and get you some space then kick it.

seriously Go Spiller!

 

; )

Edited August 4, 2015 by 3rdand12

[PromoTheRobot]

Yup. Kelly has made a lot of stupid personnel moves, but somehow the Bills are his trade B word. It boggles my mind.

Seriously? His B word? That's extreme. Are the Colts our B word because of Jerry Hughes?

[BADOLBILZ]

You could say the same about Kiko.

 

Perhaps I suppose, but the difference is that you didn't hear anything implied or otherwise like that from the Bills.

 

As I have said before, McCoy was going to be released so the Bills basically traded Alonso for his negotiating rights.

 

And if you thought that was the "plan" that doesn't jive with the story from both sides that the deal went from initial discussion to trade in a half hour.

 

IMO it was just a hasty decision and I don't know if they would have done it if they knew in advance that McCoy was going to balk and they would have to re-do his deal.

 

But by then they had to do it.

[beerme1]

 

 

To be honest I am happy for Spiller because now he is with an organization that will wisely use his talents instead of being with a dullard organization that accentuates his limitations. Good coaching is not about highlighting what you can't do so much as it is allowing you to do what you can do best.

 

 

HEY! You missed the off season!

[Doc]

Perhaps I suppose, but the difference is that you didn't hear anything implied or otherwise like that from the Bills.

 

As I have said before, McCoy was going to be released so the Bills basically traded Alonso for his negotiating rights.

 

And if you thought that was the "plan" that doesn't jive with the story from both sides that the deal went from initial discussion to trade in a half hour.

 

IMO it was just a hasty decision and I don't know if they would have done it if they knew in advance that McCoy was going to balk and they would have to re-do his deal.

 

But by then they had to do it.

 

You expected the Bills to publicly trash Alonso? Kromer barely was with them by the time the trade went down.

 

And Kelly's criticisms were that McCoy wasn't hitting the holes fast enough for his liking. Probably because anything longer than a 5 second play for Kelly is an eternity.

 

But rest-assured, while the trade went down fast, it wasn't a hasty decision. Again, the BIlls' defense improved despite (I'm not saying because of) Alonso's absence last year and the running game was weak. So on the face of it, trading a player who you didn't need for a top-3 RB is a no-brainer. Add in Kiko injuring his knee again and it's a no-brainer.

[JohnC]

 

Perhaps I suppose, but the difference is that you didn't hear anything implied or otherwise like that from the Bills.

 

As I have said before, McCoy was going to be released so the Bills basically traded Alonso for his negotiating rights.

 

And if you thought that was the "plan" that doesn't jive with the story from both sides that the deal went from initial discussion to trade in a half hour.

 

IMO it was just a hasty decision and I don't know if they would have done it if they knew in advance that McCoy was going to balk and they would have to re-do his deal.

 

But by then they had to do it.

If McCoy would have been cut there is a strong probability that he wouldn't have signed with the Bills. You are putting too much emphasis on the detail of how he was acquired instead of assessing what his addition does for the team. It was obvious that Spiller was not the type of back the organization wanted as their marquee back for an offense that would lean on the running game. They acquired a prime back (upper tier) to fit that role. For what this new regime wants to do on offense it was a good match.

 

As someone else stated (Doc) our defense played well in Kiko's absence. Is he a good player and an up and coming player? Yes. But in the mix and match world of filling out a roster you usually have to give up something to get something. My concern is not if Philly got the better of the deal, it is whether the Bills got better with the addition. In my opinion they did.

Edited August 4, 2015 by JohnC

[BADOLBILZ]

If McCoy would have been cut there is a strong probability that he wouldn't have signed with the Bills. You are putting too much emphasis on the detail of how he was acquired instead of assessing what his addition does for the team. It was obvious that Spiller was not the type of back the organization wanted as their marquee back for an offense that would lean on the running game. They acquired a prime back (upper tier) to fit that role. For what this new regime wants to do on offense it was a good match.

 

As someone else stated (Doc) our defense played well in Kiko's absence. Is he a good player and an up and coming player? Yes. But in the mix and match world of filling out a roster you usually have to give up something to get something. My concern is not if Philly got the better of the deal, it is whether the Bills got better with the addition. In my opinion they did.

 

I am well aware that there is a strong probability that he wouldn't have signed with the Bills. Hence just being for "negotiating rights".

 

And I do understand your point about the Bills getting a deal done. They have traditionally struggled to add players that the new coaching staffs needed to succeed. Bad starts....wasted first seasons......have undermined guys like Gregg Williams and Chan Gailey and Doug Marrone.

 

But my main point is that they made a hasty decision and subsequently overpaid for a player that might not even been a good fit for their running game because of both style and mileage.

 

If they were going to do the trade it should have been a 5th or 6th round pick.....a pick that turns into a Tony Steward.......not an outstanding young player that you would have valued at a first round level prior to an ACL tear.....far from a career threatening injury.....who was on a cheap contract for several more years when you have a lot of expensive contracts tying up your cap now and in the immediate future.

 

The keys to this trade may be Doug Whaley's ability to keep the pipeline full of players capable of replacing the impact of players who will be departing andGreg Roman finding a way to maximize McCoy's production.

 

It's possible that Roman wanted a different type of back.....that he didn't want disciplined north-south runners like he had at Stanford and SF.

 

If not then it is interesting to me that Chip Kelly wanted Frank Gore so badly while we didn't hear anything about Gore teaming up with Roman in Buffalo.

 

Maybe he wants to run a different attack than we have seen from him before.