Kiko article in Philly

[Green Lightning]

I am most interested in seeing the meeting on the field between Kiko and Jerome Felton. The legend versus a battering ram.

[BADOLBILZ]

Never heard that once.

 

 

I mean.....how do you word that if you are the media?

 

Toward the end of Spillers rookie season when everyone was wondering why Spiller was struggling to get on the field Steve Tasker let it slip on tv that Spiller couldn't process the play calls in the huddle.

 

He said Spiller was used to seeing the plays signaled in on cards from the sideline.

 

I kid you not.

 

Then Spiller famously couldn't follow blocks.

 

Then the all-22's exposed that Spiller didn't appear to understand play design.

 

Then last year.....Spiller......A 5 year vet.....couldn't follow blocks.

 

This isn't peewee football.

 

The game has been see and react for him.

 

Then when the bullets are flying he goes full throttle with immense effort and runs himself out of breath.

 

He's kind of a modern day Forrest Gump.

 

It's really unfortunate because he is by all accounts a sweet guy.

 

And as much as experience will help him I think he lost a step over the past couple of seasons as well.

 

It was another case of the Bills just not really doing their homework on a prospect.

 

He did terribly on his wonderlic and while that sometimes happens and isn't a problem.....it often is and should have lead to a more critical analysis of his time at Clemson.

 

After all, Leodis was the same way and it took him 6 years to not stink despite All-Pro physical traits and they had already had been thru the worst of it with him by this time.

Edited August 3, 2015 by #BADOL

[Agent 91]

maybe i missed it in all info but where was wood said to have had a bad practice?

Ask Stefan Charles and Corbin Bryant lol

[QB Bills]

Another TBD myth that has somehow become fact here: Kiko was nothing special after the first month.

 

Just because he got his interceptions in the first few games he played, doesn't mean his play tapered off. And just because the guy was good enough to play every snap as a rookie MLB (that's still hard to fathom) doesn't automatically mean he was tired. He took a bad angle on two runs (TB, ATL games) and other than that, the guy was a beast out there. Amazing at sniffing out plays in the backfield. I think he would have killed it playing the weakside.

 

I hated the trade at the time, and I hope I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure I will hate the trade at the end of the season too.

Another TBD myth that has somehow become fact here: Kiko was nothing special after the first month.

 

Just because he got his interceptions in the first few games he played, doesn't mean his play tapered off. And just because the guy was good enough to play every snap as a rookie MLB (that's still hard to fathom) doesn't automatically mean he was tired. He took a bad angle on two runs (TB, ATL games) and other than that, the guy was a beast out there. Amazing at sniffing out plays in the backfield. I think he would have killed it playing the weakside here this year.

 

I hated the trade at the time, and I hope I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure I will hate the trade at the end of the season too.

[Agent 91]

We would be better off if we could have got and can get now an OG who can play OC. Urbik to OC isn't my ideal situation. But, if we could have got the #1 rated OC this past draft who plays OC better then anything else I would be fine with moving Wood to RG. The Bills have to realize they suck at OL and grading out talent so they have to be open for some outside the box thinking.

I respectfully think Miller is the first step to proving you wrong. I really liked Erving out of FL State but I think you will see Miller turn into the best OL man we have

[BADOLBILZ]

You always have great opinions Badol...my glass half-full ones are as follows:

 

I don't believe Bradham will play like a core this year and will show that he's replaceable. He thrived in Shwartz's system but struggled in Pettine's is my evidence.

 

The growth is cap space will allow Glenn to get a deal done I believe particularly after M. Williams extends.

 

Alonzo was a loss = he thrived in Pettine's system and can play in space -- I know this sounds crazy but I think Ty Powell has these same skills and is bigger (1" Shorter but 10 lbs heavier) and faster (4.6 flat 40 to Alonso's 4.64 best) and was making drop plays all over the place in mini-camp. He's less likely to get engulfed like Alonso was the second half of his rookie year...Powell probably is more stout against the run and while not as great as Alonso in coverage (but who knows after the third knee injury) but is serviceable.

 

I think picking up Shady is a 3 year hope that we are competitive -- if Shady is on the Bills for 3 years the cap hit for a cut is less than $6 million and 4 years is less than $3 million

 

That's my side.

 

If they can keep finding LB's without having to expend picks that will make a huge difference.

 

As the hoodie has said......in order to stay bad in the NFL you have to do A LOT of things bad.

 

Good organizations can make bad trades or lose good players and overcome it.

 

The Bills of the past 15 years could not. Their mistakes compounded.

 

As for the news about Wood having a bad practice......that shouldn't come as a big surprise, he was simply awful last year.

 

If they can't matchup in the middle of the LOS it's going to make things difficult on guys like Cassel and EJ who aren't nimble in the pocket.

[boyst]

I respectfully think Miller is the first step to proving you wrong. I really liked Erving out of FL State but I think you will see Miller turn into the best OL man we have

I am going to cross my fingers and hope we are on the right path. But, history shows me as being more accurate in believing we have trouble finding good lineman.

[mannc]

Another TBD myth that has somehow become fact here: Kiko was nothing special after the first month.

 

Just because he got his interceptions in the first few games he played, doesn't mean his play tapered off. And just because the guy was good enough to play every snap as a rookie MLB (that's still hard to fathom) doesn't automatically mean he was tired. He took a bad angle on two runs (TB, ATL games) and other than that, the guy was a beast out there. Amazing at sniffing out plays in the backfield. I think he would have killed it playing the weakside.

 

I hated the trade at the time, and I hope I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure I will hate the trade at the end of the season too.

Thank you. It's hilarious that the trade to Philly immediately turned Kiko from a legend around here to a guy who was never really that good. I hate the trade. Chip stole a 4th from us last year for a guy who may well have been cut, and this year he stole Kiko for a RB who is in decline and had fallen out of favor in Phily. I hope I'm wrong, but with this franchise, skepticism is rarely misplaced. Edited August 3, 2015 by mannc

[dave mcbride]

Thank you. It's hilarious that the trade to Philly immediately turned Kiko from a legend around here to a guy who was never really that good. I hate the trade. Chip stole a 4th from us last year for a guy who may well have been cut, and this year he stole Kiko for a RB who is in decline and had fallen out of favor in Phily. I hope I'm wrong, but with this franchise, skepticism is rarely misplaced.

Absolutely, although I'm not as down on the trade as you are because I don't buy at all that McCoy's 2014 performance suggests he's in decline. As for Alonso, he actually played reasonably well over the whole season, and led the team in tackles by a lot in the final game. I don't put too much stock in tackle stats -- someone has gotta make 'em, and someone gets credit for one on every non-td play regardless of how poorly the D played on that play -- but he was productive and (most importantly) clearly pretty damn good. I have to laugh at the folks who say this sort of stuff because you just know they'd be showering praise if he were still here.

Edited August 3, 2015 by dave mcbride

[mannc]

Absolutely, although I'm not as down on the trade as you are because I don't buy at all that McCoy's 2014 performance suggests he's in decline. As for Alonso, he actually played reasonably well over the whole season, and led the team in tackles by a lot in the final game. I don't put too much stock in tackle stats -- someone has gotta make 'em, and someone gets credit for one on every non-td play regardless of how poorly the D played on that play -- but he was productive and (most importantly) clearly pretty damn good. I have to laugh at the folks who say this sort of stuff because you just know they'd be showering praise if he were still here.

I think McCoy is still a good back, but I also think he benefitted tremendously from playing in the Chip Kelly system. He is not a north-south runner and I'm just not sure how he will do in this offense. It seems a lot of people in Philly had the same complaints about McCoy that we had about Spiller, although McCoy obviously was far more productive.

[BarleyNY]

Thank you. It's hilarious that the trade to Philly immediately turned Kiko from a legend around here to a guy who was never really that good. I hate the trade. Chip stole a 4th from us last year for a guy who may well have been cut, and this year he stole Kiko for a RB who is in decline and had fallen out of favor in Phily. I hope I'm wrong, but with this franchise, skepticism is rarely misplaced.

Yup. Kelly has made a lot of stupid personnel moves, but somehow the Bills are his trade B word. It boggles my mind.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Kiko is a great player. He will be great for the next 10 years if health holds up. I have no issues with trading Kiko because 1 of Bradham, Kiko, Brown were not going to get many snaps. My problem is why not try for Foles. Maybe they did. I know they tried for Bradford.

[Mr. WEO]

Payton is not the offensive genius that Chan was. Brees is arguably better then Fitz was at this point in his career. Without Jimmy Graham the Saints will struggle.

 

 

Now that's some funny stuff right there.

[Doc]

I am going to cross my fingers and hope we are on the right path. But, history shows me as being more accurate in believing we have trouble finding good lineman.

The Bills have done well with early picks on the OL recently (Wood prior to last year, Glenn, Levitre, possibly Miller). Later picks haven't panned-out as well, although I think Hendy could be a stud LT. And Incog is looking good.

 

Thank you. It's hilarious that the trade to Philly immediately turned Kiko from a legend around here to a guy who was never really that good. I hate the trade. Chip stole a 4th from us last year for a guy who may well have been cut, and this year he stole Kiko for a RB who is in decline and had fallen out of favor in Phily. I hope I'm wrong, but with this franchise, skepticism is rarely misplaced.

I think McCoy is still a good back, but I also think he benefitted tremendously from playing in the Chip Kelly system. He is not a north-south runner and I'm just not sure how he will do in this offense. It seems a lot of people in Philly had the same complaints about McCoy that we had about Spiller, although McCoy obviously was far more productive.

Kiko's legend was created after a great first half of his rookie season. But you'd have to have blinders on to not see that he faded badly mid- to late-season. The hope was that it was the rookie wall and he'd play great for a whole season in his 2nd year. Then he tore his ACL again, working out. And the defense improved immensely. So the Bills realized they didn't necessarily need him and had a chance to get an All-Pro RB whose "decline" was still good enough for 3rd best in the NFL. To me it was a no-brainer but time will tell.

 

And McCoy was an All-Pro RB before Kelly (2011).

[bigK14094]

 

I mean.....how do you word that if you are the media?

 

Toward the end of Spillers rookie season when everyone was wondering why Spiller was struggling to get on the field Steve Tasker let it slip on tv that Spiller couldn't process the play calls in the huddle.

 

He said Spiller was used to seeing the plays signaled in on cards from the sideline.

 

I kid you not.

 

Then Spiller famously couldn't follow blocks.

 

Then the all-22's exposed that Spiller didn't appear to understand play design.

 

Then last year.....Spiller......A 5 year vet.....couldn't follow blocks.

 

This isn't peewee football.

 

The game has been see and react for him.

 

Then when the bullets are flying he goes full throttle with immense effort and runs himself out of breath.

 

He's kind of a modern day Forrest Gump.

 

It's really unfortunate because he is by all accounts a sweet guy.

 

And as much as experience will help him I think he lost a step over the past couple of seasons as well.

 

It was another case of the Bills just not really doing their homework on a prospect.

 

He did terribly on his wonderlic and while that sometimes happens and isn't a problem.....it often is and should have lead to a more critical analysis of his time at Clemson.

 

After all, Leodis was the same way and it took him 6 years to not stink despite All-Pro physical traits and they had already had been thru the worst of it with him by this time.

I would point out that McGahee also required those sideline signals to run plays while in Buffalo, couldn't "get" the O play in the huddle.........so this problem is not unheard of.....Spiller will be the same player we saw here IMHO....strengths and weaknesses.

[White Linen]

I agree for the most part about kiko, but I think spiller will have a breakout season. he's primed for more success than ever and I just want him to stay healthy. he deserves it.

 

He already had a breakout season in 2012. It's going to be very difficult to handle a work load which he won't be asked to do - that will be Ingram. So you'll see option 2 numbers from him. They realize Sproles made a big impact and they hope Spiller can fill that void. I don't think he can entirely - but I hope he plays well.

[JohnC]

 

I mean.....how do you word that if you are the media?

 

Toward the end of Spillers rookie season when everyone was wondering why Spiller was struggling to get on the field Steve Tasker let it slip on tv that Spiller couldn't process the play calls in the huddle.

 

He said Spiller was used to seeing the plays signaled in on cards from the sideline.

 

I kid you not.

 

Then Spiller famously couldn't follow blocks.

 

Then the all-22's exposed that Spiller didn't appear to understand play design.

 

Then last year.....Spiller......A 5 year vet.....couldn't follow blocks.

 

This isn't peewee football.

 

The game has been see and react for him.

 

Then when the bullets are flying he goes full throttle with immense effort and runs himself out of breath.

 

He's kind of a modern day Forrest Gump.

 

It's really unfortunate because he is by all accounts a sweet guy.

 

And as much as experience will help him I think he lost a step over the past couple of seasons as well.

 

It was another case of the Bills just not really doing their homework on a prospect.

 

He did terribly on his wonderlic and while that sometimes happens and isn't a problem.....it often is and should have lead to a more critical analysis of his time at Clemson.

 

After all, Leodis was the same way and it took him 6 years to not stink despite All-Pro physical traits and they had already had been thru the worst of it with him by this time.

You did very thorough job in describing Spiller's limitations. What you didn't do is list his assets and what he does exceptionally well. Name a player on offense who had more big plays than Spiller, even with his limited playing time? You don't think having one of the worst OLs and one of the worst qb play during his tenure had an affect on crimping his game, a game predicated on space?

 

Spiller is not an every down back, and never will be. He is not going to be a Thurman Thomas type of player who bounces off defenders. Spiller is not a between the tackles runner although that is where a high percentage of his runs were made. The problem I have with his persistent critics is that they emphasize what he isn't good at without acknowledging what he is terrific at i.e. making big plays when he has space to work with.

 

Let's see how productive Spiller is with Brees as his qb.? Brees is a quick release and accurate qb who will get the ball to Spiller in space with swing passes and short routes. In New Orleans Spiller will be used where he is most productive, not where he is least productive.

 

In your post you stressed how Spiller has difficulty processing information. If that is the case then present the information differently so he can better absorb and process it. As a runner Spiller doesn't have great instincts. So the solution to that deficiency is to put him in situations where he doesn't have to make those type of reads. Again, play to his strengths, not his weaknesses.

 

Good coaches accentuate players strengths and do their best to mask their limitations. The opposite was done in Buffalo. That is one of the reasons why this franchise has been a good example of what not to do. Don't be surprised now that Spiller is with a more astute coaching staff that he will be an important contributor to his new team.

[boyst]

 

 

Now that's some funny stuff right there.

has he got more from less? The talent in new Orleans on that offense is much, much better then Buffalos.

[nucci]

Thank you. It's hilarious that the trade to Philly immediately turned Kiko from a legend around here to a guy who was never really that good. I hate the trade. Chip stole a 4th from us last year for a guy who may well have been cut, and this year he stole Kiko for a RB who is in decline and had fallen out of favor in Phily. I hope I'm wrong, but with this franchise, skepticism is rarely misplaced.

Why do you say this? There is no evidence. Just because numbers dropped off a bit doesn't mean the player is in decline. If DeMarco Murray rushes for less than 1800 yards this year, is he declining?

[boyst]

Why do you say this? There is no evidence. Just because numbers dropped off a bit doesn't mean the player is in decline. If DeMarco Murray rushes for less than 1800 yards this year, is he declining?

kiko has more good years ahead of him the McCoy. On paper

And Murray may hit 1800 this year but how many more years will he be able to produce?