Kelly the Dog Posted August 10, 2015 Posted August 10, 2015 Is there a text that tells him to swipe the balls from the refs room? If there had never been a situation where the deflator did his dirty deed before in this way, why would Brady ask him to do it this time? McNAlly never stole the balls in the past... We don't know if he never did it before that way. He has asked the officials to let him walk the balls to the field before but they are supposed to escort him. My assumption here is that because it was a championship game and there would be more cameras around on the sidelines that he did it in the bathroom so he wouldn't have as great a chance of being seen with balls on the sideline. He's not supposed to ever have them.
Mr. WEO Posted August 11, 2015 Posted August 11, 2015 We don't know if he never did it before that way. He has asked the officials to let him walk the balls to the field before but they are supposed to escort him. My assumption here is that because it was a championship game and there would be more cameras around on the sidelines that he did it in the bathroom so he wouldn't have as great a chance of being seen with balls on the sideline. He's not supposed to ever have them. Walt Anderson said it never happened before, I believe. But again, if Brady doesn't know or ask his deflators how/where they plan to do it, why should he be punished for them doing it in the way they did? If he rewards them in general for doing it, why would he be culpable for them stealing the balls?
Kelly the Dog Posted August 11, 2015 Posted August 11, 2015 Walt Anderson said it never happened before, I believe. But again, if Brady doesn't know or ask his deflators how/where they plan to do it, why should he be punished for them doing it in the way they did? If he rewards them in general for doing it, why would he be culpable for them stealing the balls? First, Anderson said in his 19 years he's never had the balls stolen from him before. He would only do maybe 10-15% of Patriots games and it's possible that McNally took the balls after they were delivered to the field other times. Second, I already explained that element a dozen times here. We KNOW for a fact, irrefutable, from several different people directly involved, which no one anywhere disputes, that Tom Brady asked the officials to set the balls at 12.5 for that game. So if Brady asked McNally or Jastremski to "lower" the balls or deflate them in any way that automatically means what he asked them to do is illegal. And we can all agree they wouldn't do it themselves. Therefore Tom Brady asked them to cheat.
Mr. WEO Posted August 11, 2015 Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) First, Anderson said in his 19 years he's never had the balls stolen from him before. He would only do maybe 10-15% of Patriots games and it's possible that McNally took the balls after they were delivered to the field other times. Second, I already explained that element a dozen times here. We KNOW for a fact, irrefutable, from several different people directly involved, which no one anywhere disputes, that Tom Brady asked the officials to set the balls at 12.5 for that game. So if Brady asked McNally or Jastremski to "lower" the balls or deflate them in any way that automatically means what he asked them to do is illegal. And we can all agree they wouldn't do it themselves. Therefore Tom Brady asked them to cheat. Yeah. we all get that. They stole the balls. They lost their jobs. He asked them to cheat. But you're hung up on this "theft" angle. You just said Brady simply told them to lower the balls. He didn't tell them where to do it that game any more than he told them all the other games where they didn't steal them. And there is no report I am aware of where other refs brought up that the pats balls went missing before the 10 minutes before kickoff. Edited August 11, 2015 by Mr. WEO
Kelly the Dog Posted August 11, 2015 Posted August 11, 2015 Yeah. we all get that. They stole the balls. They lost their jobs. He asked them to cheat. But you're hung up on this "theft" angle. You just said Brady simply told them to lower the balls. He didn't tell them where to do it that game any more than he told them all the other games where they didn't steal them. I have no idea what he told them other than to cheat, I'm not sure why it matters. If he told McNally to deflate them he automatically told him to steal the balls because McNally is never supposed to touch the balls at any time and would have to steal them to alter them.
Mr. WEO Posted August 11, 2015 Posted August 11, 2015 I have no idea what he told them other than to cheat, I'm not sure why it matters. If he told McNally to deflate them he automatically told him to steal the balls because McNally is never supposed to touch the balls at any time and would have to steal them to alter them. Except all the other games where he didn't steal them to deflate them? You've painted yourself into a corner..
Kelly the Dog Posted August 11, 2015 Posted August 11, 2015 Except all the other games where he didn't steal them to deflate them? You've painted yourself into a corner.. Not at all. I don't know what he said to them as to how they should do it. How would I? What I know and you know if you think for a second is that if he told them to deflate the balls, we know for a fact he told them to cheat. It doesn't matter how or when they did it. This time they did it by stealing the balls. Other times I'm sure they did it with a needle on the sidelines. Maybe there were other ways too. McNally is NEVER EVER SUPPOSED TO TOUCH THE BALLS HIMSELF. At any time. Ever. So if he is ordered to deflate them he must steal them. Maybe he gets them from the ball boys on the sidelines. Maybe he takes them out of the bag of extra balls on the sidelines. The point is, if he holds one in his hand it is stolen.
Mr. WEO Posted August 11, 2015 Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) Not at all. I don't know what he said to them as to how they should do it. How would I? What I know and you know if you think for a second is that if he told them to deflate the balls, we know for a fact he told them to cheat. It doesn't matter how or when they did it. This time they did it by stealing the balls. Other times I'm sure they did it with a needle on the sidelines. Maybe there were other ways too. McNally is NEVER EVER SUPPOSED TO TOUCH THE BALLS HIMSELF. At any time. Ever. So if he is ordered to deflate them he must steal them. Maybe he gets them from the ball boys on the sidelines. Maybe he takes them out of the bag of extra balls on the sidelines. The point is, if he holds one in his hand it is stolen. Holy cow. He's an equipment guy on the pats team and they are the pats balls. As for the stealing stuff, this is how the team responded to the Wells report regarding this: http://nesn.com/2015/05/patriots-jim-mcnally-didnt-stealthy-take-footballs-from-locker-room/ Edited August 11, 2015 by Mr. WEO
Kelly the Dog Posted August 11, 2015 Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) Holy cow. He's an equipment guy on the pats team and they are the pats balls. As for the stealing stuff, this is how the team responded to the Wells report regarding this: http://nesn.com/2015/05/patriots-jim-mcnally-didnt-stealthy-take-footballs-from-locker-room/ He's not the equipment guy. He's the Officials Locker Room Attendant. His job, as far as the balls are concerned, is to bring a bag of balls from the Patriots lockeroom to the officials locker room. That's it. Nothing else. The Patriots explanation is typically laughable. It's abundantly very clear in the rules that McNally cannot do what he did. Their explanation is nobody told him he couldn't steal them. And some people there must have seen him. Edited August 11, 2015 by Kelly the Dog
K8prisoner Posted August 11, 2015 Posted August 11, 2015 arguing with patriots schills over the facts tha brady is a cheater. bellichek cheats every sunday... billy and tommy only became good because they were one step ahead of the leaguye becaiuse the coaches in the nfl actuall were hampered by the concept of, HONOR, PLAYING WITHIN THE RULES , PERSONA; PRIVACY AND ... everyt other thing that Benjamin Franlin warned us about the scum Khazars and the self jstifications that have muddied the waters we drink, killed the banking system that Jackson won against and kennedy and Lincoln died for and is now finally creating a line the cross in the pastime they have used to distract us while they steal our lives and liberties our forefathers fought so hard to win for us... the irony is the rub it in our faces every time the patriots win because their owner and all their agents have made a commitment to stick kit to us because they have confuse inbtelligence with the abilty to double deal and dou ble cross a fellow human being.. ( wbhy they have been booted out of everyb city on earthn and now use a wonderful people to hide behind everytime the get called out... KTD and any other who fight againbst and any who like to argue by being devils advocate like Mr weo... you are all great and interesting people but 35 pages about injustice over having too little balls???? The Talmudic scholars are laughing their asses off at you guys... I love you for fighting with the bills... we got screwed out of at least 2 supoer bowls and ha ve been robbed of many other games and created a inferiority complex because someone had a problem with buffalo or ralph... who knows.. You are arhuing over who stole balls? The fluoridated water stole all of our balls. do I get my tinfoil crown now.. they left us with sports to have meaning and buffalo they have been cruel as much as our vguys have been cruelk to ourselves like some kind of bet in 1995 like trding places,, stealing ball..balls not BIG ENOUGH.. funny deh.. lets get 31 teams to kick Kraft and all his agents even on message bords back to the basement where new England deserves to be with grogan as their last true star... lets mKE SURE NO FORGETS ABOUT ALL THE GAME RTAPES AND SIGNALS THEY STOLE FOPR 20 YEARS AND WILL KEEP DOIN WITH NSA AND CIA CONNECTIONS TRO ACTUALLY STEAL FOOT BALL GAMES ... CAN YOU EVER BELIEVE ANYTRHING SOO NUNAMERICAN... WE CAN DO THIS BY USING ONLY PAPER GAME PLANS AND PAPER NOTES AND BASEBALL SIGNAL WHERE ONLY THREE MEN KNOW THE ACTIVATORS FOR EACH SIGNALS... IF THE LEAGUE DOES THIS AND HAS A COMPLETELY SEPARATE GAME SIGNAL AND ACTIIVator for every second half against this paper tiger team they will look as mediocre as they are as their front line is nearly done asa they were their only rewal nfl anchor... spread ir around that their cheating days are over... stop grousing about deflated balls... like THEY WANT YOU ALL TO DO!!... get some balls and call them out on the real cheating they are still doing and are planning to secure their legacy and try to legitimize it by using balls to hide and distract from stealinfg all the game plans ands adjustments off the tablets that kraft prob paid to have a back door and a few teams like our tyrod taylor teams know the pats scam... THe pats are too lame to play anyone straight up so they self justify cheating and destroying a game I used to love by being a step ahead of everyone that prides themselves at being an honorable men which kraft bellicheat and brady are not... don't waste your breasth arguing minutia... let em have it every game by invading each tteam they play message board and let them know of the bills game tAPES THAT WERE DESTROYED BY GOODELL AND THE LONDON GAME TAPE OF NCDANIELS THAT SHOULD HAVE GOT HIM KICKED OUTR OF THE league IF THE NFL ISNT SLIGHLY RIGGED IN SOME WAY... JUST A TAD... ESPECIALLY TOWARDS THE PATSIes... sorry about caps at the end and my bad grammar and spelling... I got sucked into this before as I remembered a few things after researching krafts involvement in a much larger picture.. I used to believe sports were not to be touched like families in the mob but have learned rthat a few teams have used their connections to create a nfl/ wwe type that they believe is more like life... give me sports back please...and mt privacy and a currency backed by gold.... "'
Mr. WEO Posted August 11, 2015 Posted August 11, 2015 He's not the equipment guy. He's the Officials Locker Room Attendant. His job, as far as the balls are concerned, is to bring a bag of balls from the Patriots lockeroom to the officials locker room. That's it. Nothing else. And walk them out of the officials room without a anyone caring, if you read that article.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 11, 2015 Posted August 11, 2015 And walk them out of the officials room without a anyone caring, if you read that article. I did and just responded to it above. It was funny. No one told him he couldn't steal them is their excuse. I assume no one expected him to stop in a bathroom and alter them. No one would have cared, even though he stole them, if he just delivered them to the field.
Mr. WEO Posted August 11, 2015 Posted August 11, 2015 I did and just responded to it above. It was funny. No one told him he couldn't steal them is their excuse. Your edit came after my response. The implication isn't that what he did wasn't illegal. You're being disingenuous with your summary of the article. Clearly they are saying that many saw him walking out with the balls, no one thought he was "stealing" them. They just watched him roll past. They weren't really concerned as to what he was doing breaking those rules. It's like the cop who sees me and everyone else speeding on 590 every morning, but he just watches us go by, rarely stopping anyone, despite our obvious flouting of traffic laws.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 11, 2015 Posted August 11, 2015 Your edit came after my response. The implication isn't that what he did wasn't illegal. You're being disingenuous with your summary of the article. Clearly they are saying that many saw him walking out with the balls, no one thought he was "stealing" them. They just watched him roll past. They weren't really concerned as to what he was doing breaking those rules. It's like the cop who sees me and everyone else speeding on 590 every morning, but he just watches us go by, rarely stopping anyone, despite our obvious flouting of traffic laws. You're talking about the Patriots response. No Patriot official was there. They wouldn't know he was stealing them. He is allowed to take them if he asks and if he is escorted to the field by an official. That is allowed. So if they saw him walk out with them, AND they knew the rules, it shouldn't have raised their ire. He could have got permission from Anderson for all they know. And there could have been an official waiting outside to escort him to the field. No one thinks a team is going to steal the balls and alter them. No one is looking for someone trying to screw them. He can take the balls if he asks for them from Anderson and Anderson agrees. But he didn't. None of those guys would know he was stealing them if he walked right past them. He has taken them to the field several times before. An official is supposed to escort him though. Not to mention that everyone there was getting ready for a Championship Game not looking out for an attendant stealing the balls. I know the rules. Apparently you don't.
Mr. WEO Posted August 11, 2015 Posted August 11, 2015 You're talking about the Patriots response. No Patriot official was there. They wouldn't know he was stealing them. He is allowed to take them if he asks and if he is escorted to the field by an official. That is allowed. So if they saw him walk out with them, AND they knew the rules, it shouldn't have raised their ire. He could have got permission from Anderson for all they know. And there could have been an official waiting outside to escort him to the field. No one thinks a team is going to steal the balls and alter them. No one is looking for someone trying to screw them. He can take the balls if he asks for them from Anderson and Anderson agrees. But he didn't. None of those guys would know he was stealing them if he walked right past them. He has taken them to the field several times before. An official is supposed to escort him though. Not to mention that everyone there was getting ready for a Championship Game not looking out for an attendant stealing the balls. I know the rules. Apparently you don't. Wow, NO ONE should have figured that a "locker room attendant" who works for the team that the NFL and Walt Anderson were specifically warned before the game was deflating footballs waltzes unattended through their locker room with all of the pats balls? No one thought the pats might be "stealing" their own balls to deflate them? Everyone in that room suddenly figured that Walt Anderson, who was tipped off that the pats would do something fishy with the balls, suddenly would allow the pats locker room attendant to walk out with those balls unescorted? Yeah, that's a reasonable assumption. Sure Walt had probably never done that under any circumstance, but no doubt they would all assume ol Walt suddenly changed his practice on that specific day. We all know the rules. No one in that locker room seemed to be worried about those exact when they were warned before the game nor when some dude just walked out with all the balls.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 11, 2015 Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) Wow, NO ONE should have figured that a "locker room attendant" who works for the team that the NFL and Walt Anderson were specifically warned before the game was deflating footballs waltzes unattended through their locker room with all of the pats balls? No one thought the pats might be "stealing" their own balls to deflate them? Everyone in that room suddenly figured that Walt Anderson, who was tipped off that the pats would do something fishy with the balls, suddenly would allow the pats locker room attendant to walk out with those balls unescorted? Yeah, that's a reasonable assumption. Sure Walt had probably never done that under any circumstance, but no doubt they would all assume ol Walt suddenly changed his practice on that specific day. We all know the rules. No one in that locker room seemed to be worried about those exact when they were warned before the game nor when some dude just walked out with all the balls. You clearly don't know the rules or what happened. No one was told there was any problem with deflated balls. Anderson had left the room. NO ONE would have thought anything was wrong if McNally walked past them and said Look at me, I have the balls. You're looking at something in retrospect and assuming these people are on the lookout. I just told you, and it's in the report, that McNally has taken the bag of balls out of the room several times before. Why would anyone think that was wrong? No one there knew anything was wrong. I guess if you stretched it, you could say that Anderson could have or should have worried more in the ten minutes the balls were missing that they were altered. I very much doubt it ever crossed his mind. He's hurrying to start the Championship Game. He was pissed the balls were missing and even started swearing, but I doubt it occurred to him that McNally would have taken the balls to a bathroom and let air out of them. That's really stretching it. In fact, after the fact during the investigation, Anderson said he didn't really worry about the allegation because he knew he would be measuring them. Again, I guess you could say in retrospect that he should have known the patriots were theives and cheaters more than he did. But what does that really change? If he would have measured them before the game he would have found out they cheated. Edited August 11, 2015 by Kelly the Dog
K-9 Posted August 11, 2015 Posted August 11, 2015 McNAlly never stole the balls in the past... Irrelevant. Would McNally have stolen them the one time if Brady hadn't previously rewarded him for ensuring the balls were inflated to Brady's specification? GO BILLS!!!
SRQ_BillsFan Posted August 11, 2015 Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) And walk them out of the officials room without a anyone caring, if you read that article. Right because no one else carrys bags of equipment around an NFL stadium before a game. Must have really stuck out, how could no one have seen him? They should have known to lock the balls in a vault. Otherwise it was just an invitation to STEAL them. The refs had no other responsibility. Since when is stealing not stealing if you don't lock your things up and then be on a lookout for it. There could have been a million things in the bags being carried by a Pats equipment guy wearing the correct credentials to be where he was. This was not some random guy off the street that did not belong in the room. Edited August 11, 2015 by SRQ_BillsFan
GG Posted August 11, 2015 Posted August 11, 2015 Wow, NO ONE should have figured that a "locker room attendant" who works for the team that the NFL and Walt Anderson were specifically warned before the game was deflating footballs waltzes unattended through their locker room with all of the pats balls? No one thought the pats might be "stealing" their own balls to deflate them? Everyone in that room suddenly figured that Walt Anderson, who was tipped off that the pats would do something fishy with the balls, suddenly would allow the pats locker room attendant to walk out with those balls unescorted? Yeah, that's a reasonable assumption. Sure Walt had probably never done that under any circumstance, but no doubt they would all assume ol Walt suddenly changed his practice on that specific day. We all know the rules. No one in that locker room seemed to be worried about those exact when they were warned before the game nor when some dude just walked out with all the balls. So let me get this straight - just because the NFL didn't proactively stop an employee of one of its franchises from breaking the rules, that absolves the franchise of breaking the rules?
Matt in KC Posted August 11, 2015 Posted August 11, 2015 So let me get this straight - just because the NFL didn't proactively stop an employee of one of its franchises from breaking the rules, that absolves the franchise of breaking the rules? If that is true, I'm starting to think all of the officials need to be armed, and guards posted throughout the stadium.
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