Brady 4 game suspension upheld; Will go to court

[GG]

 

 

The central issue isn't guilt or innocense (especially in this trivial act); the issue is the integrity of the quasi-judicial process. This process was irredeemably tainted, bordering on corruption. That is the point.

 

100% incorrect. The issue is the integrity of the game, and you have a franchise that has consistently operated on the rules' edges for 15 years, and has at times crossed the edges, and was caught. While the ball deflation may be a minor point, and something that the defenders are hanging their hat on, it's clear the NFL's message to the * is, F*^NG ENOUGH WITH THIS CRAP.

 

You can argue all the legal minutiae about the process and how unfair Goodell & the NFL have been to the *, but that completely misses the point why the league is going hard after them.

[Nanker]

For the past week or so, I have had a number of posts that I have posted on PFT deleted. The only ones that have been deleted were ones questioning Brady's case and/or PFT's coverage of it (PFT has a habit of drawing every inference in favor of Brady).

 

A few days ago, I started to take screen shots of these posts. I have tried to contact Florio to find out whether I am violating some policy of theirs.

 

Very odd.

 

Have any of you had this problem?

Yes.

[Mr. WEO]

Okay, Goodell made errors. Happy? That doesn't make Brady less guilty.

 

But it may make the suspension and appeal reversable. That's the point you and many others can't seem to wrap your heads around. This federal court case doesn't involve guilt., just how the suspension and appeal were handled by the NFL.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Mr. WEO

[NoSaint]

Okay, Goodell made errors. Happy? That doesn't make Brady less guilty.

but it may make him less punished.

[PromoTheRobot]

but it may make him less punished.

Which would be stupid.

[thebandit27]

For the past week or so, I have had a number of posts that I have posted on PFT deleted. The only ones that have been deleted were ones questioning Brady's case and/or PFT's coverage of it (PFT has a habit of drawing every inference in favor of Brady).

 

A few days ago, I started to take screen shots of these posts. I have tried to contact Florio to find out whether I am violating some policy of theirs.

 

Very odd.

 

Have any of you had this problem?

 

All the time...they delete anything that doesn't mesh with the current narrative they're trying to construct.

[NoSaint]

 

All the time...they delete anything that doesn't mesh with the current narrative they're trying to construct.

really, im just surprised to see more than one person discussing PFT comments. Is there ever actual interesting discussion and content in there? I remember it making me appreciate our worst posters for not being as bad as that. has it gotten better?

Which would be stupid.

its not like its incredibly rare that we see people that are probably guilty get away without punishment in society because the person trusted with authority messes up.... its a pretty american concept, even if it doesnt feel great seeing a guilty guy get punishment reduced/vacated.

 

if it makes you feel any better maybe itll save the bills from the nfl going crazy on them some day, even if brady benefits today.

Edited August 6, 2015 by NoSaint

[thebandit27]

really, im just surprised to see more than one person discussing PFT comments. Is there ever actual interesting discussion and content in there? I remember it making me appreciate our worst posters for not being as bad as that. has it gotten better?

its not like its incredibly rare that we see people that are probably guilty get away without punishment in society because the person trusted with authority messes up.... its a pretty american concept, even if it doesnt feel great seeing a guilty guy get punishment reduced/vacated.

 

if it makes you feel any better maybe itll save the bills from the nfl going crazy on them some day, even if brady benefits today.

 

I've commented on there specifically to ask a question of Florio, MDS, or one of the other admin that posts a story.

[Kelly the Dog]

Why didn’t Goodell call Jastremski and McNally?

 

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/04/why-didnt-goodell-call-jastremski-and-mcnally/

Ummm... Because he was the judge, not the prosecuter or the defense.

[Kelly the Dog]

If you read one of my posts a couple of pages back, you'll see that I support the more poetically just suspension (functionally speaking) of a six-games-out stress fracture inflicted by Jerry Hughes on Brady in game 2 of this season.It's possible to believe that the overall case is overwhelmingly against Brady and also to believe that Goodell wilfully mischaracterized the nature of this particular communication between Brady and Jastremski. Take your prosecutorial hat off for a moment and think about it in another light--a non-prosecutorial, plain English interpretation light. He CLEARLY mischaracterized what Brady said, but the defense of Goodell seems to be boiling down to "that's just his opinon, man." I mentioned earlier that this was an unforced error, and it really is--he didn't have to do this, and doing so didn't make his case stronger. Rather, it ended up being the basis of a highly critical lead story in the Washington Post. Knowing this outcome, in what world was this a smart thing for Goodell to write? Think about the real-world ramifications of this (in truth) penny-ante misrepresentation here and try not to drag this down into the case-logic rabbit hole. It's a classic example of Goodell making a stupid decision because he opted for scorched earth tactics rather than a more modest approach based in reality (which would have been plenty powerful in and of itself).

Read what he actually said and you have your answer. It's like page 7-12 or so of his report. He was in a summary of ALL the reasons that he concluded Brady was responsible. In total he didn't mischaracterize it at all. They seemed to cherry pick a paragraph that made it appear as if that was the reason he concluded Brady was lying when it wasn't at all.

[NoSaint]

Ummm... Because he was the judge, not the prosecuter or the defense.

you really believe goodell had nothing to do with assembling who would speak at the hearing?

[Pneumonic]

 

 

 

You're wasting your time responsing to Pneumonic. He/she is a Patriots** shill that is on this board for the sole purpose of defending their actions on this subject.

 

They cheated, Brady lied, it's obvious to anyone that has followed the story with any level of detail and attempted to remain unbiased.

 

Now, now. The point of posting these other links is to offer up the other side of the media's perspective, now that people actually have access to more relevant documents that relate to the other side of the story. Up until a few days ago, it was all 1 sided information that the media, and viewers, were referencing to base their conclusions on.

if the NFLs goal was accuracy and not guilt, youd think theyd err on the side of requesting more info, not assuming the worst there is kind of the whole point of the article. its another one of those "it wouldve been really easy to button up this loose thread and make the request, even if denied" situations.

 

The reality is that now that these documents have been released, it seems much more "probable than not" that it is the "NFL" which has more guilt in all of this then does Brady.

[Beerball]

But it may make the suspension and appeal reversable. That's the point you and many others can't seem to wrap your heads around. This federal court case doesn't involve guilt., just how the suspension and appeal were handled by the NFL.

or perhaps some, like me, don't care. I "know" that the deflation was done with Brady's approval and likely at his request. He cheated. He lied. I really don't need to know more or get caught up in the minutia about what could have/ should have been done procedurally. Some of you thrive on picking a side and then sticking to it no matter what.

[thebandit27]

 

Now, now. The point of posting these other links is to offer up the other side of the media's perspective, now that people actually have access to more relevant documents that relate to the other side of the story. Up until a few days ago, it was all 1 sided information that the media, and viewers, were referencing to base their conclusions on.

 

No, the information has been steadily streaming out from both sides.

 

I asked you directly, on multiple occasions, what NFL team you cheer for...you've ignored it each time. I also notice that you specifically make it a point to talk about what an embarrassment the league is on this subject, while blindly accepting Brady's incongruous stammering as a testimony that even closely resembles what an innocent person would say.

 

A guy that calls himself "The Deflator" took footballs (after they were measured) into a room with no cameras, claiming that he had to use a urinal that doesn't exist. He stayed there long enough to remove an appreciable amount of air from 12 footballs. Those footballs were later found to be deflated to a degree that neither the Ideal Gas Law nor the Van der Waals equation can explain, even including all contributing factors. Those same two equations also cannot account for why those balls deflated more than the other team's balls.

 

This same "Deflator" has dozens of incriminating text messages that implicate that the QB directs them to fill the balls to a certain degree. In fact, the organization in question fired said "Deflator" and his accomplice; an explanation of that has never been given by the way.

 

The QB claims to (a) not know Mr. "Deflator" and (b) not have spoken to him or his partner in ball-handling about football prep, which he then goes back on in open court. He also destroys his cell phone containing all of his correspondence on the very day he's set to speak with the investigator about the controversy, claiming that he does so whenever he gets a new phone (which is proven not to be the case). He then goes on to provide, for both actions, what reads as the most twisted, convoluted testimony possible to explain his discussions with the ball handlers and his destruction of his phone.

 

Moreover, we, as fans, are supposed to believe that Tom Brady, who petitioned the NFL to give QBs more freedom to prepare footballs the way they like, who meticulously and pedantically studies every aspect of the game (and game preparation), and who is on record as saying that he likes his footballs a bit lower on the pressure scale, provided absolutely no feedback to these two maroons regarding preparing the ball, and had no idea what they were doing?

 

I'm sorry, but there's no explanation for all of this that fits in with the "I didn't do it" defense.

 

EDIT: I'll also add that there was no categorical denial in your response. So I will ask again: what NFL team do you cheer for?

Edited August 6, 2015 by thebandit27

[Kelly the Dog]

you really believe goodell had nothing to do with assembling who would speak at the hearing?

The NFLPA was asked to have McNally and Jastremski come speak as witnesses. They said no, with an outrageously insane reason. That Tom wants to face his accusers and not his friends (which is hysterical considering that Brady says he never spoke to McNally at any time. Goodell was acting as the Arbitrator. But he cannot subpoena anyone to show up. The only witnesses for the league there were Wells, Vincent, Marlow, and Exponent Guys who did the actual investigation, and for the other side a few guys who spoke about the Wells reports statistics against it for the NFLPA. Plus Brady of course.

[NoSaint]

or perhaps some, like me, don't care. I "know" that the deflation was done with Brady's approval and likely at his request. He cheated. He lied. I really don't need to know more or get caught up in the minutia about what could have/ should have been done procedurally. Some of you thrive on picking a side and then sticking to it no matter what.

were discussing a legal situation here, you act like those nits have no bearing on the outcome of the case and are just a distraction when its actually the core of what the judge is reviewing. it may be minutia in your moral judgement of brady but in evaluating the NFLs discipline system, roger goodell, and the final outcome of the case the decisions made regarding the "minutia" could be very important.

The NFLPA was asked to have McNally and Jastremski come speak as witnesses. They said no, with an outrageously insane reason. That Tom wants to face his accusers and not his friends (which is hysterical considering that Brady says he never spoke to McNally at any time. Goodell was acting as the Arbitrator. But he cannot subpoena anyone to show up. The only witnesses for the league there were Wells, Vincent, Marlow, and Exponent Guys who did the actual investigation, and for the other side a few guys who spoke about the Wells reports statistics against it for the NFLPA. Plus Brady of course.

i feel like you completely side stepped my point that it would have been really easy for the NFL to send a letter to the goon squad and say "hey could you show up and talk to us" instead of simply chalking it up as "the nflpa didnt want them to speak so we are counting them as supporting our side" without even asking if they would come. you can pick at whether it would be goodell or pash that should send the letter, or that the nflpa didnt invite them.... but isnt it easier to just be able to say "yea the nfl probably shouldve done that" instead of going full on "firechan in support of johnny manziel" in how you discuss this? admitting that the nfl wasnt perfect isnt conceding that the whole thing was a sham.

[RI Bills Fan]

were discussing a legal situation here, you act like those nits have no bearing on the outcome of the case and are just a distraction when its actually the core of what the judge is reviewing. it may be minutia in your moral judgement of brady but in evaluating the NFLs discipline system, roger goodell, and the final outcome of the case the decisions made regarding the "minutia" could be very important.

 

i feel like you completely side stepped my point that it would have been really easy for the NFL to send a letter to the goon squad and say "hey could you show up and talk to us" instead of simply chalking it up as "the nflpa didnt want them to speak so we are counting them as supporting our side" without even asking if they would come. you can pick at whether it would be goodell or pash that should send the letter, or that the nflpa didnt invite them.... but isnt it easier to just be able to say "yea the nfl probably shouldve done that" instead of going full on "firechan in support of johnny manziel" in how you discuss this? admitting that the nfl wasnt perfect isnt conceding that the whole thing was a sham.

 

Isn't the real question; Did the NFL have the authority to call the "Goon Squad" as witnesses? Or was it a case of that being entirely the NFLPA's decision?

[Pneumonic]

Gathering up ALL of the evidence, it is pretty obvious to me what transpired here.

 

Goodell took the gamble that he could:

1. Disregard collectively bargained policies in issuing his initial discipline.
2. Short circuit an independent appeals process in order to gain support for his discipline, despite it being handed out based on assumptions and non proven truths.
3. Forever seal off evidence of this malfeasance from the public.
4. Convince Brady to accept the punishment or win in court on a technicality focusing on the limited scope of appeals when it comes to arbitration awards.

 

What Goodell didn’t anticipate was that Brady would be unwaveringly in his innocence and would not settle under the NFL’s pressure tactics. Nor did he expect that a federal judge would not obfuscate the truth to the public in order to fight the NFL's PR battle for them.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Pneumonic

[Mr. WEO]

or perhaps some, like me, don't care. I "know" that the deflation was done with Brady's approval and likely at his request. He cheated. He lied. I really don't need to know more or get caught up in the minutia about what could have/ should have been done procedurally. Some of you thrive on picking a side and then sticking to it no matter what.

 

 

Well... this is the entire bassis of the appeal. What else should we be talking about? We have conceded he cheated. Now he is appealing the procedural process by which he was punished and the appeal of the punishement.

 

I don't understand your criticism.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Mr. WEO

[Matt in KC]

...
i feel like you completely side stepped my point that it would have been really easy for the NFL to send a letter to the goon squad and say "hey could you show up and talk to us" instead of simply chalking it up as "the nflpa didnt want them to speak so we are counting them as supporting our side" without even asking if they would come. you can pick at whether it would be goodell or pash that should send the letter, or that the nflpa didnt invite them.... but isnt it easier to just be able to say "yea the nfl probably shouldve done that" instead of going full on "firechan in support of johnny manziel" in how you discuss this? admitting that the nfl wasnt perfect isnt conceding that the whole thing was a sham.

The NFL would have been fine with, and actually preferred, no appeal . The point of an appeal is not to do the investigation again, but to hear and respond to the punished player's arguments that it was flawed. Brady apparently did not want to contest the McNally and Jastremski testimony and evidence.

 

What I don't understand is how Brady can be punished, if he is, with not making those two available to the initial investigation. That is not his responsibility, is it?