l< j Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 Not sure how else I can explain myself other than to say that the entirety of the Wells report - from the science onward - and which the league based their judgement on - is all predicated on assumptions and what if conditions. You keep fixating on the gauge and the air pressure. It doesn't matter. Distraction and sideshow. All that matters--all--is that balls were stolen by Patriots employees, and Brady knew about it. End of story. Science can't explain it. Science can't debunk it. Guy participated in cheating. As I said, 4 games for this is too light. kj
Pneumonic Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) You keep fixating on the gauge and the air pressure. It doesn't matter. Distraction and sideshow. All that matters--all--is that balls were stolen by Patriots employees, and Brady knew about it. End of story. Science can't explain it. Science can't debunk it. Guy participated in cheating. As I said, 4 games for this is too light. kj That may or may not be true. My pointing out the science was simply in response to a post on what a logical judge would see if he/she did a cursory look at this case. The fundamental issue at hand - whether or not the balls were deflated naturally or not, can be arrived at via objective means (ie science). Edited July 31, 2015 by Pneumonic
K-9 Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 The ONLY reason anything matters (beyond the science) is because of the what if's that were assumed. Had the what if''s been exercised to make the other parties narrative work, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Ah, the old "circumstantial evidence isn't real evidence and can never be inculpable" argument. Again, unreasonable. Here is some DIRECT evidence you can entertain then: Tom Brady refused to cooperate in a league investigation as mandated and, as such, is subject to disciplinary action by the league. GO BILLS!!! That may or may not be true. My pointing out the science was simply in response to a post on what a logical judge would see if he/she did a cursory look at this case. The fundamental issue at hand - whether or not the balls were deflated naturally or not, can be arrived at via objective means (ie science). That is so far from the fundamental issue, I am beginning to think you are one of the Pats* media shills. GO BILLS!!!
IDBillzFan Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 And this email exchange ...... this is about to get very ugly for the league. http://nesn.com/2015/07/patriots-publish-emails-to-nfl-asking-to-correct-false-deflategate-reports/ Wow. Hell truly hath no fury like a woman scorned.
Kelly the Dog Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 Or the sideshow will continue, I suppose. Who is the smart one, the guy who brings politics to the football board?
Pneumonic Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 Ah, the old "circumstantial evidence isn't real evidence and can never be inculpable" argument. Again, unreasonable. Here is some DIRECT evidence you can entertain then: Tom Brady refused to cooperate in a league investigation as mandated and, as such, is subject to disciplinary action by the league. GO BILLS!!! That is so far from the fundamental issue, I am beginning to think you are one of the Pats* media shills. GO BILLS!!! Keep in mind that I am not saying the science is now the fundamental issue. The NFLPA was clear in their petition to vacate based on the following issues: - Brady was not given advance notice - The punishment was without precedent in the context of the CBA - That "general awareness" is an insufficient/unknown standard for assigning responsibility for a deed - That the punishment is outside the range of the fines provided by the CBA - The arbitrator was ruling on authority that he had improperly delegated in the first place. As a science guy I could have saved them alot of time and trouble. But, not made them any $.
l< j Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 That may or may not be true. My pointing out the science was simply in response to a post on what a logical judge would see if he/she did a cursory look at this case. The fundamental issue at hand - whether or not the balls were deflated naturally or not, can be arrived at via objective means (ie science). That is absolutely NOT the fundamental issue at hand. It is completely beside the point what PSI the balls were inflated to. All we need to know is that balls were stolen with the intent to change the air pressure. Succeeding or failing at that, or having an outcome that benefits the cheating team: doesn't matter. And we know that it happened, no one is denying that it happened.. And Brady knew that it happened. How can a fan of this game not be outraged at that? kj Keep in mind that I am not saying the science is now the fundamental issue. The fundamental issue at hand - whether or not the balls were deflated naturally or not, can be arrived at via objective means (ie science). Make up your mind. - The punishment was without precedent in the context of the CBA Because the cheating was without precedent in the entire history of the NFL. kj
K-9 Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 Keep in mind that I am not saying the science is now the fundamental issue. The NFLPA was clear in their petition to vacate based on the following issues: - Brady was not given advance notice - The punishment was without precedent in the context of the CBA - That "general awareness" is an insufficient/unknown standard for assigning responsibility for a deed - That the punishment is outside the range of the fines provided by the CBA - The arbitrator was ruling on authority that he had improperly delegated in the first place. As a science guy I could have saved them alot of time and trouble. But, not made them any $. Round and round it goes. I can't presume how a judge will rule, but every point outlined above, EVERY ONE, has been masterfully addressed and debunked in Goodell's report. Based on the structure of their respective reports, from the logic to the language, Goodell has a better team working for him. GO BILLS!!!
Pneumonic Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 Round and round it goes. I can't presume how a judge will rule, but every point outlined above, EVERY ONE, has been masterfully addressed and debunked in Goodell's report. Based on the structure of their respective reports, from the logic to the language, Goodell has a better team working for him. GO BILLS!!! It's now a labour law battle where I think it's a flip of the coin type outcome.
Pneumonic Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 didn't the judge tell the two parties to cut the shite? yet Boob Kraft is still at it. More fines? Contempt of court? Kraft is an owner so, if anyone is going to get disciplined, it would have to be the NFL not the NFLPA.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) Kraft is an owner so, if anyone is going to get disciplined, it would have to be the NFL not the NFLPA. the court (Berman) issues a warning right? So my question is can the Judge Berman issue a stricter warning and or punishment to the party not obeying his demands? and I also wouldn't mind Roger sending another fine Kraft's way. IMO He too has gotten off lightly and the hubris is a bit too much Edited July 31, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
The Wiz Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 @Rachel__Nichols: The #Patriots are releasing a bunch of the email correspondence they had with the #NFL office over #DeflateGate: http://t.co/6UoDEweojMHmmm so the patriots fired these guys but they are worried about their well-being? the court (Berman) issues a warning right? So my question is can the Judge Berman issue a stricter warning and or punishment to the party not obeying his demands? and I also wouldn't mind Roger sending another fine Kraft's way. IMO He too has gotten off lightly and the hubris is a bit too much I believe they can to the team. Don't think so too Brady.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 Hmmm so the patriots fired these guys but they are worried about their well-being? I believe they can to the team. Don't think so too Brady. I guess my translator is broken. I was referring to the mentioned email which I thought someone said came from Kraft, I never mentioned Brady*** If I misread the above
Pneumonic Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 I guess my translator is broken. I was referring to the mentioned email which I thought someone said came from Kraft, I never mentioned Brady*** If I misread the above I think the confusion lies in your post, 1244, above where you ask if the judge told the TWO parties to cut it out. You then implied that Kraft was one of the parties (presumably on Brady's side) when in fact, he's on the owner side. At any rate, Brady's side (ie the NFLPA) hasn't said anything to upset the judge.
The Wiz Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 I think the confusion lies in your post, 1244, above where you ask if the judge told the TWO parties to cut it out. You then implied that Kraft was one of the parties (presumably on Brady's side) when in fact, he's on the owner side. At any rate, Brady's side (ie the NFLPA) hasn't said anything to upset the judge. I was just covering all the bases in one post even though you only meant Kraft.
DC Tom Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 And this email exchange ...... this is about to get very ugly for the league. http://nesn.com/2015/07/patriots-publish-emails-to-nfl-asking-to-correct-false-deflategate-reports/ How is this getting ugly for the league? The Patriots have already admitted responsibility, paid the fine, and fired the two employees involved. And now they're !@#$ing around with a federal case. This should get ugly for the Patriots, if anyone.
LeGOATski Posted August 1, 2015 Posted August 1, 2015 How is this getting ugly for the league? The Patriots have already admitted responsibility, paid the fine, and fired the two employees involved. And now they're !@#$ing around with a federal case. This should get ugly for the Patriots, if anyone. Because it wasn't getting swept under the rug. They only admitted to guilt and paid the fine to protect Brady! They're the victims here!! Leave the Pats alone!!!!
K-9 Posted August 1, 2015 Posted August 1, 2015 Well, at least we will have a final resolution by Sept. 4. It speaks well for both sides that they agreed they agreed to that. No injunction, no temporary restraining order, just a final decision by the court. Glad this won't drag on like we thought it might. GO BILLS!!!
MattM Posted August 1, 2015 Posted August 1, 2015 I think the confusion lies in your post, 1244, above where you ask if the judge told the TWO parties to cut it out. You then implied that Kraft was one of the parties (presumably on Brady's side) when in fact, he's on the owner side. At any rate, Brady's side (ie the NFLPA) hasn't said anything to upset the judge. Oh, please--the judge is not stupid. He knows who's on whose side here and I suspect after his "tone it down"/scorched earth admonition he won't be pleased at all with the Pats* releasing those e-mails.
ThurmasThoman Posted August 1, 2015 Posted August 1, 2015 (edited) This story is becoming repulsive to me. The Patriots broke the rules, again. They have been having a 200-day-long temper tantrum on a national stage--I feel as if I'm watching a 6 year old kick and scream on the kitchen floor after being sent to his room to take a timeout for being caught with his hand in an empty cookie jar; crumbs on his shirt; melted chocolate on his face; and a half eaten cookie in his other hand, while 10 of his friends from elementary school sit by and say even though you were given the longest timeout in family history last weekend for being busted video taping your mother's time in the kitchen, to know exactly when she takes a 5 minute break to take the trash out thus giving you the optimal window to steal cookies in; and even though every other member of your family knows you steal cookies and have been accusing you of doing so for years; and even though you petitioned your family to have full access to the cookie jar after mom bakes the cookies but before dessert time, and Mom dubiously said "ok"; and even though once you were given access to that cookie jar, the number of cookies in it decreased at a rate so much faster than every other cookie jar in the city; and even though other members of the family said "look out at this cookie jar at this specific time, he's going to steal a cookie"; and even though you got caught stealing that specific cookie; and even though you hired 2 people to stand next to the cookie jar, watch for mom, and then text you to say "oh mr cookie monster, it's time to eat :)"; and even though you destroyed the cellphone that said "oh mr cookie monster, it's time to eat :)"; and even though there's video evidence of one of your newly-hired friends taking the cookie jar down from the shelf, bringing it into a closet for 2 minutes, and then putting it back on the shelf; and even though you whined so much about being caught with your hand in a cookie jar that the family had to hire lawyers and get a third party to rule that "it was more probable than not that you were stealing cookies", to add some "impartial voice of justice" to a process that always should have (and always was going to) result in you getting a time out for a few minutes; even though ALL that is true-- his 10 friends from elementary school still sit by and high five each other... "more probable than not... totally an inside job... amiriteorwutguyz... *high five*" Long story short: it's the fans of the Patriots that are making this more frustrating than Tom Brady himself. We've always said they were bandwagon fans--but to be so unable to accept the bad part of sports...after being so ungracious as "champions" for the past decade and a half (I live in the New England region, theyre bad, beleive me)... it's just incredibly frustrating to watch an entire fan base fight tooth and nail against their comeuppance. Why follow sports if you're going to bury your head in the sand when things don't go your way? It's the bad spots that make the victories so much fun. Why defend the honor of a cheater? That's the heart of it, right there. Why defend the honor of a known cheater? It's as if the entire fan base is willing to turn their back on the moral system of the universe, but then demand that the rest of the country respects their accomplishments. Lol. Edited August 1, 2015 by JohnnyGold
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