What a Tuel Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 fact check The iPhone 6 was released in October. I had one in November 2014. Soooo he was 4 months late for the new release Obviously Tom Brady only gets his phones from Indonesia, and coincidentally Apple released there in February which is later than most places. Why are you hate'n?
webtoe Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 Beyond the just the deflation (which based just on the fumbling stats is a big deal), I think were the "Integrity of the Game" clause really comes in is Brady's refusal to cooperate fully. The NFL does not have subpoena power, which is why the CBA requires players and teams to fully cooperate with investatigations. Every other team that has been investigated recently (Saints, Baltimore, Miami) has fully cooperated. Ravens players all surrendered their cell phones. The Patriots have already been penalized hard for their non-cooperation and accepted it. I think that was more to do with avoiding public airing of more issues than it was to save Brady. Brady has not, and is still not cooperating, and it will set a very bad precedent for future investigations if he is allowed to get away with it.
JohnC Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 Football isn't the marines. "conduct detrimental" probably means different things to different people. If the high school principal called your house and said your son had just crashed his car into the school, and they had discovered he had illegal synthetic marijuana with him, you probably would be more upset than if the principal callled you up and said they the coach of last weeks football opponent had accused your son of letting air of the football. Part of virtually every NFL football game is purposeful cheating. Intentional late hits, trying to hold players without getting caught, purposeful pass interference on plays that would result in a TD if not for the interference. Some of these are not spur of the moment decisions by players. They are techniques and strategies taught. And their is specific penalties spelled out for them. These penalties are the same in the Super Bowl as in a preseason game. And they are the same for 12-0 teams as for 0-12 teams. In short all teams game plan to "cheat". As far as I know, no player has ever been suspended for "conduct detrimental" after making an illegal play that changed the outcome of a game. There was a precedent for penalizing teams in the NFL for not having the balls properly inflated. It had been previously enforced with the Vikings and Jaguars. It was a $25k fine. No lost draft picks no suspensions. Its quite possible the Patriots decided this penalty was worth risking, just like teams decide holding instead of allowing a sack is worthwhile. I think fans would be upset if on occasion a blatant hold was such a game changer that the refs decided to make it a 30 yard penalty and loss of down instead of a 10 yard penalty and repeating the down. The NFLPA/Patriots beef seems to be primarily a version of the arbitrariness of the rule making process and the rule making itself. I actually agree with them on that. Brady's beef seems to be his insistence he didn't do anything wrong. I don't actually understand his reasons for making that assertion. In the long run, the NFL diminishes its brand if people think the rules are just being made up along the way. Your perspective is reflected in this Sally Jenkins' s column in the Washington Post. The process is basically driven by the whim of the commissioner. http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/the-nfls-basic-due-process-is-the-real-issue-in-the-deflategate-controversy/2015/07/30/ebda3b02-3666-11e5-9d0f-7865a67390ee_story.html
Mr. WEO Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 Tags reduced Hargrove's and other player's suspensions on the grounds they were following the code established by the team and the coaching staff, ie they had little choice but to follow orders to fit into the club. " Although I vacate all suspensions, I fully considered but ultimately rejected reducing the suspensions to fines of varying degrees for Hargrove, Smith and Vilma. My affirmation of Commissioner Goodell's findings could certainly justify the issuance of fines. However ... this entire case has been contaminated by the coaches and others in the Saints organization" That doesn't hold water in Tommy Boy's case, because the league ruled that he was the primary orchestrator of the cheating and was the one who contaminated the investigation by not cooperating and lying. Your own quote shows clearly that Tags was going to toss the suspensions no matter what---"contamination" or not. He was just saying he wasn't also going to fine the players (instead of suspension). Make no mistaske, Goodell gave him 8 games for lying to him, not because of the hits he gave for bounties. Goodell was suspending Hargrove for being uncooperative--same as Brady. Tags thought that wasn't worth any suspension at all. He witheld the fine on Hargrove because of the coachs' involvement.
The Wiz Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 Your own quote shows clearly that Tags was going to toss the suspensions no matter what---"contamination" or not. He was just saying he wasn't also going to fine the players (instead of suspension). Make no mistaske, Goodell gave him 8 games for lying to him, not because of the hits he gave for bounties. Goodell was suspending Hargrove for being uncooperative--same as Brady. Tags thought that wasn't worth any suspension at all. He witheld the fine on Hargrove because of the coachs' involvement. Thinking about bounty gate makes me wonder, does Peyton's suspension fall under the precedent that a lot have been talking about? Not sure if player contracts and coaches contacts differ in regard to the personal conduct or integrity of the game stuff.
NoSaint Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) Thinking about bounty gate makes me wonder, does Peyton's suspension fall under the precedent that a lot have been talking about? Not sure if player contracts and coaches contacts differ in regard to the personal conduct or integrity of the game stuff. completely different and cant be compared in the slightest. the coaches are not governed by the CBA. the players appealed and won while Payton was in a tough spot because he was suspended for a year, and had to seek the commissioners reinstatement at the end, which was conditional on behaving how the league likes. he had no way to really appeal, and if he tried there was sentiment the league may try to further bury him. Edited July 31, 2015 by NoSaint
K-9 Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 Your perspective is reflected in this Sally Jenkins' s column in the Washington Post. The process is basically driven by the whim of the commissioner. http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/the-nfls-basic-due-process-is-the-real-issue-in-the-deflategate-controversy/2015/07/30/ebda3b02-3666-11e5-9d0f-7865a67390ee_story.html This again. Of course the process is driven by the commissioner. Perhaps the NFLPA should elect not to give him that collectively bargained responsibility when the next CBA is negotiated. But back to reality, what aspect of this process did Goodell prosecute outside of his purview? GO BILLS!!!
thebandit27 Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 Thinking about bounty gate makes me wonder, does Peyton's suspension fall under the precedent that a lot have been talking about? Not sure if player contracts and coaches contacts differ in regard to the personal conduct or integrity of the game stuff. At that time, there was no personal conduct policy. Currently, ALL NFL personnel (league employees, coaches, players, etc) are subject to the same policy.
l< j Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 The analogy I like is this: Brady committed an offense like doing 55 mph in a 30 mph zone. A lot of people do it, and lot of the time the cops decide it's not worth getting out of bed for. Most people grumble about the ticket but cough it up. Others, more savvy, get it pled down to a non-moving violation. Brady is the guy who asked to cop "Do I smell bacon...oh it's just a pig" and is then shocked when he gets a reck less driving ticket as well, shouts that he'll have that cops badge and shows up in Traffic Court thinking he's Matlock. You forgot the part where he steals the radar gun, the most important part. kj
KD in CA Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 Your perspective is reflected in this Sally Jenkins' s column in the Washington Post. The process is basically driven by the whim of the commissioner. http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/the-nfls-basic-due-process-is-the-real-issue-in-the-deflategate-controversy/2015/07/30/ebda3b02-3666-11e5-9d0f-7865a67390ee_story.html Nice of Sally to let us know right in the title that her dreck isn't worth reading. The 'whim of the commissioner' is the 'due process'.
GG Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 Your own quote shows clearly that Tags was going to toss the suspensions no matter what---"contamination" or not. He was just saying he wasn't also going to fine the players (instead of suspension). Make no mistaske, Goodell gave him 8 games for lying to him, not because of the hits he gave for bounties. Goodell was suspending Hargrove for being uncooperative--same as Brady. Tags thought that wasn't worth any suspension at all. He witheld the fine on Hargrove because of the coachs' involvement. Why don't you read the actual Tags decision before leaping to your logic? The parallel in this case is that Hargrove was McNally/Jastremski and Brady was the Saints coaches. Tags was very clear where he thought blame lay. Finally, given the comprehensive, overt and ongoing nature of the obstruction by coaches and their direct instructions to Hargrove to lie, combined with their control over his football career, it is clear that Hargrove was under tremendous pressure to follow the chain of command in order to keep his job. I have concluded that there is not sufficient evidence to demonstrate in these unique circumstances that Anthony Hargrove's alleged misconduct is deserving of a suspension. I therefore vacate the suspension imposed on Hargrove.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 Your perspective is reflected in this Sally Jenkins' s column in the Washington Post. The process is basically driven by the whim of the commissioner. http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/the-nfls-basic-due-process-is-the-real-issue-in-the-deflategate-controversy/2015/07/30/ebda3b02-3666-11e5-9d0f-7865a67390ee_story.html I read her piece. I usually don't agree with her what do you call it analysis? At that time, there was no personal conduct policy. Currently, ALL NFL personnel (league employees, coaches, players, etc) are subject to the same policy. isn't it expected by any employer that every employee represents a good image? Don't they take yearly personal conduct policy training classes?
MattM Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 Your perspective is reflected in this Sally Jenkins' s column in the Washington Post. The process is basically driven by the whim of the commissioner. http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/the-nfls-basic-due-process-is-the-real-issue-in-the-deflategate-controversy/2015/07/30/ebda3b02-3666-11e5-9d0f-7865a67390ee_story.html Do yourself a favor and Google "Sally Jenkins" and "Lance Armstrong". Sally was one of Lance's staunchest defenders until the bitter end. Here's one of many, many articles castigating her for her defense of that cheater. Do you see a pattern here (in addition to the pattern of Patriot* cheating, spinning, lying, covering up)? http://dcist.com/2012/12/sally_jenkins_finally_writes_about.php
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 Obviously Tom Brady only gets his phones from Indonesia, and coincidentally Apple released there in February which is later than most places. Why are you hate'n? you forgot to mention after floating in the ocean for months and washing ashore off the coast of Africa.
The Wiz Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 completely different and cant be compared in the slightest. the coaches are not governed by the CBA. the players appealed and won while Payton was in a tough spot because he was suspended for a year, and had to seek the commissioners reinstatement at the end, which was conditional on behaving how the league likes. he had no way to really appeal, and if he tried there was sentiment the league may try to further bury him. That's kind of what I thought but wasn't sure how it applies to coaches if it all. Thanks for clarifying.
OCinBuffalo Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) Do yourself a favor and Google "Sally Jenkins" and "Lance Armstrong". Sally was one of Lance's staunchest defenders until the bitter end. Here's one of many, many articles castigating her for her defense of that cheater. Do you see a pattern here (in addition to the pattern of Patriot* cheating, spinning, lying, covering up)? http://dcist.com/2012/12/sally_jenkins_finally_writes_about.php Um, yikes. It's one thing that today's "journalists" will bend any truth, and tell any pre-prepared story, in order to keep their access to athletes, teams, and leagues. But, this? Ain't that. This is playing Barbies, and having the Lance and Tom dolls hang out with and maybe... kiss Barbie(Sally). And of course this is part of the larger story, lazy sports journalism, yes, but caused by marketing replacing journalism. Rather than checking up on the Patriots* for cheating, ESPN would much rather "build their brand" around Tom Brady, the "Patriot Way"(which, ask any Chiefs fan, doesn't exist), Jerry Craft, and the entire New England media market. That's because the phrase "build their brand" is all ESPN knows. The quality of their work?(See: Mike Rodak) Irrelevant, build the brand. NBA sucks? Irrelevant, have Colin Cowherd disparage hockey to the point of absurdity, and build the brand. Things like Tom Brady cheating simply don't compute for these people. Edited July 31, 2015 by OCinBuffalo
dave mcbride Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 Do yourself a favor and Google "Sally Jenkins" and "Lance Armstrong". Sally was one of Lance's staunchest defenders until the bitter end. Here's one of many, many articles castigating her for her defense of that cheater. Do you see a pattern here (in addition to the pattern of Patriot* cheating, spinning, lying, covering up)? http://dcist.com/2012/12/sally_jenkins_finally_writes_about.php Good piece on Jenkins - thanks for the link.
Kelly the Dog Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 Lost in all this is that for all the "the science is garbage" and Ideal Gas Law and AEI crowd, Goodell's report shot the **** out of all of that. No one is talking about it because it is all about the phone and coverup, but he gave the answer that knocks down virtually all of that. The ideal gas law could not have fit or explain the drop, the Wells report was correct in their assumption of what gauge Anderson used, which is the basis of pretty much ALL of the science is garbage argument. And the argument is all but proof.
MattM Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 Lost in all this is that for all the "the science is garbage" and Ideal Gas Law and AEI crowd, Goodell's report shot the **** out of all of that. No one is talking about it because it is all about the phone and coverup, but he gave the answer that knocks down virtually all of that. The ideal gas law could not have fit or explain the drop, the Wells report was correct in their assumption of what gauge Anderson used, which is the basis of pretty much ALL of the science is garbage argument. And the argument is all but proof. I noticed that, too, in reading the decision. It's really quite a tight defense of his ruling, which is why the attack has now turned to the process and not the substance so much. What happened to the days when people owned up to their mistakes?
NoSaint Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 I noticed that, too, in reading the decision. It's really quite a tight defense of his ruling, which is why the attack has now turned to the process and not the substance so much. What happened to the days when people owned up to their mistakes? well, honestly, most appeals to this level are process and not substance, unless they were grossly out of line in the substance (and that is normally reflected in gross negligence in the process too).
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