Kelly the Dog Posted July 30, 2015 Posted July 30, 2015 Also, I should point out, one of the major reasons they are arguing that is because Doty in MN struck down the Peterson case on those grounds. That he wasn't informed of his punishment before. In that case it was legitimate, because the NFL tried to change the rules on him and punish him by a rule that wasn't in place when he committed the act. So Doty ruled in the NFLPAs favor. He wasn't informed of the punishment because it didn't exist. That doesn't apply at all here.
Best Player Available Posted July 30, 2015 Posted July 30, 2015 I have no doubt in my mind that Brady will be standing when the dust settles in this war. The bell tolls for thee, Roger. You overplayed your hand. maybe not. The NFL nation is far larger than R. Kraft, and the pats* apologists. Safe to say that Goodell will no longer be on Krafts gift list though.
Pneumonic Posted July 30, 2015 Posted July 30, 2015 For those who want the other half of the story ....... NFLPA's petition to vacate https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/PDFs/Media%20Resources/7.29.15%20petition%20to%20vacate.pdf
Freddie's Dead Posted July 30, 2015 Posted July 30, 2015 thats not saying those 3 are innocent but we have no idea if they are as guilty as everyone immediately assumes. The next one they didnt turn in is always going to be assumed to be the smoking gun. Those 18 minutes of silence undid the Dickster.
NoSaint Posted July 30, 2015 Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) For those who want the other half of the story ....... NFLPA's petition to vacate https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/PDFs/Media%20Resources/7.29.15%20petition%20to%20vacate.pdf Skimming through. Lots of their arguments are likely familiar to those that have debated a bit with me. Even a direct quote from the tagliabue review of bounty gate and hargroves penalty. Specifically that plenty have players have lied and not cooperated without penalty. Also cites that only fines have been levied for equipment tampering. Also the structural issues with Goodell hearing the appeal. Hopefully that it appears that I actually did a decent job outlining the clear complaints from previous incidents and they are actually being used here will help assure some that I wasn't just defending Brady aimlessly but actually critiquing the NFL handling from a semi-educated position. Whether it holds up in court, I won't claim to know but having followed bounty gate, and less so petersons case - there are some parallels and it might not be good for the NFL. Could be enough to have the courts persuade them to get someone like tagliabue to step in for a decision again. Not saying it will but doesn't strike me as a stretch. Whether or not you think Brady should be penalized it blows my mind that roger sat over an appeal that he was being called as a material witness in and used the firm that produced the "independent" wells report as nfl counsel in the hearings. Forgetting Brady completely, I don't get why the NFL would want to set itself up for those obvious objections instead of getting a 3rd party to hear it and using a different firm as their representation. I know it'll be met with "players fault for agreeing to the cba" but.... Jeeeze. Edited July 30, 2015 by NoSaint
BuffaloBob Posted July 30, 2015 Posted July 30, 2015 One thing I guarantee Brady knew was that if there were incriminating texts on that phone, he knew that if he wanted to end up in federal court, he didn't want those texts available for subpoena once there. If I we're part of the NFL counsel team, I would argue that Brady was coming to court with unclean hands. He clearly knew what he was doing when he destroyed that phone, and now the NFL will never have chance to see that evidence. Well played by Brady's high priced legal team, but it stinks out loud.
DC Tom Posted July 30, 2015 Posted July 30, 2015 For those who want the other half of the story ....... NFLPA's petition to vacate https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/PDFs/Media%20Resources/7.29.15%20petition%20to%20vacate.pdf They should have read the CBA. None of that is accurate.
Augie Posted July 30, 2015 Posted July 30, 2015 Despite how I feel personally, I do worry that Brady and his team may just outsmart Goodell and the League. Some of the things they say and do just seem so stupid, I can't help but wonder if they aren't two steps ahead in this chess game. Maybe throw out some red herrings to inflame people and get emotional reactions, but those will not be decided in federal court, where the scope may be much more limited? There have been some reports that they have an agenda with Goodell and that's why they're pushing this. I hope it's not true, but I tend to be a worrier. Even I will try to ignore this post....
Kelly the Dog Posted July 30, 2015 Posted July 30, 2015 They should have read the CBA. None of that is accurate. That never occurred to them because rules don't apply to Brady. Florio was arguing, essentially, that because the NFL had never suspended a player exactly like this before, they couldn't, until they bargained at the table on a new CBA. Even though, of course, they have, as Goodell explained it was treated like a PED violation when a player didn't cooperate with the investigation.
Saxum Posted July 30, 2015 Posted July 30, 2015 Edit: It wouldn't surprise me if he's getting some sort of endorsement fee for posting it there. I wonder if Brady will get endorsement from a "security" destruction firm just like Marino got endorsements when he was on IR.
Kelly the Dog Posted July 30, 2015 Posted July 30, 2015 There's nothing in the rules that says an elephant can't pitch.
The Wiz Posted July 30, 2015 Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Despite how I feel personally, I do worry that Brady and his team may just outsmart Goodell and the League. Some of the things they say and do just seem so stupid, I can't help but wonder if they aren't two steps ahead in this chess game. Maybe throw out some red herrings to inflame people and get emotional reactions, but those will not be decided in federal court, where the scope may be much more limited? There have been some reports that they have an agenda with Goodell and that's why they're pushing this. I hope it's not true, but I tend to be a worrier. Even I will try to ignore this post....That's the buffalo bills fan mentality we've been missing. Good job! Edited July 30, 2015 by The Wiz
3rdand12 Posted July 30, 2015 Posted July 30, 2015 No no, that's the special hell. Brady isn't good enough for that. allow me to take up a search for my original copy of Dante's Inferno. I think its a signed copy actually.
Augie Posted July 30, 2015 Posted July 30, 2015 That's the buffalo bills fan mentality we've been missing. Good job! I've just been at it for soooo long. Listening to NFL radio on Sirius late this afternoon gave me the willies. I'm not saying we're doomed, but it never hurts to take a peek and see if you might be getting outflanked. General Custer probably thought he had a good thing going.... until he didn't. Any time something looks too good to be true, just take a second look. I wonder how limited the scope is in federal court. It's not about right and wrong, it's about law and procedure. Let all the federal judges chime in. (For the record, if you start from at the beginning, I'm in the torch him camp.)
DC Tom Posted July 30, 2015 Posted July 30, 2015 That never occurred to them because rules don't apply to Brady. Florio was arguing, essentially, that because the NFL had never suspended a player exactly like this before, they couldn't, until they bargained at the table on a new CBA. Even though, of course, they have, as Goodell explained it was treated like a PED violation when a player didn't cooperate with the investigation. Florio's argument was extraordinarily retarded. Florio's argument is equivalent to "If I rip off the quarterback's leg and beat him with it, I can't be suspended because the CBA doesn't explicitly state that I can't be suspended for ripping off the QB's leg and beating him with it." It's the dumbest !@#$ing logic imaginable.
3rdand12 Posted July 30, 2015 Posted July 30, 2015 Despite how I feel personally, I do worry that Brady and his team may just outsmart Goodell and the League. Some of the things they say and do just seem so stupid, I can't help but wonder if they aren't two steps ahead in this chess game. Maybe throw out some red herrings to inflame people and get emotional reactions, but those will not be decided in federal court, where the scope may be much more limited? There have been some reports that they have an agenda with Goodell and that's why they're pushing this. I hope it's not true, but I tend to be a worrier. Even I will try to ignore this post.... another overthinker spotted. from one who knows how to spot one. and over thinker i mean. An overthinker i meant. appearing extremeley stupid should absolutely throw a flag up for those discerning citizens of good and all it stands for. I am quite suspicious at this point in the parley
DC Tom Posted July 30, 2015 Posted July 30, 2015 I've just been at it for soooo long. Listening to NFL radio on Sirius late this afternoon gave me the willies. I'm not saying we're doomed, but it never hurts to take a peek and see if you might be getting outflanked. General Custer probably thought he had a good thing going.... until he didn't. Any time something looks too good to be true, just take a second look. I wonder how limited the scope is in federal court. It's not about right and wrong, it's about law and procedure. Let all the federal judges chime in. (For the record, if you start from at the beginning, I'm in the torch him camp.) Mostly about procedure. Right and wrong is pretty much decided now, because "binding arbitration."
3rdand12 Posted July 30, 2015 Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) I've just been at it for soooo long. Listening to NFL radio on Sirius late this afternoon gave me the willies. I'm not saying we're doomed, but it never hurts to take a peek and see if you might be getting outflanked. General Custer probably thought he had a good thing going.... until he didn't. Any time something looks too good to be true, just take a second look. I wonder how limited the scope is in federal court. It's not about right and wrong, it's about law and procedure. Let all the federal judges chime in. (For the record, if you start from at the beginning, I'm in the torch him camp.) Thats the nit isn't it Auger? procedural and justified are words that worry me about all this Edited July 30, 2015 by 3rdand12
Augie Posted July 30, 2015 Posted July 30, 2015 Mostly about procedure. Right and wrong is pretty much decided now, because "binding arbitration." Exactly my concern. Pretty Boy is wrong, but I don't want to get outsmarted on some stupid procedural point and see the Cheaters walk away smelling like roses. They'd be fine with that.... I might lose my interest in the league.
K-9 Posted July 30, 2015 Posted July 30, 2015 There's nothing in the rules that says an elephant can't pitch. Looney Tunes reference! Good work here! In just the little review I've done so far, it seems Brady is placing a lot of hope on the Petersen precedent and that Troy Vincent issued the discipline. The former is easily rendered irrelevant because it expressly dealt with a punishment retroactively administered and the later is simply not true as Goodell authorized Vincent to levy the punishment and notify the Patriots*. Oh, and Brady needs to read his CBA issued 'Standard Player Contract' for clarity on this idea that he didn't have notice of punishment for conduct detrimental. Seems a bit of a stretch. GO BILLS!!!
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