The Wiz Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Court case goes on through the Winter, Tom wins the Super Bowl again, immediately announces retirement. Court case ends, no suspension incurred. Whats better? A suspension and a few more years of Brady, or never seeing him again but he leaves with an officially untarnished legacy?? PollTime! Suspension and a few more years. I'm sure there are players licking those chops at getting a hit on him more than ever at this point. Also I have a hard time thinking that something like this would take as long as the oj murder trial did (135 days) Edited July 28, 2015 by The Wiz
FLFan Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 I wonder at what point Kraft will sit down with Brady and tell him to take one for the team? From the team perspective, unless their lawyers are confident that either the NFLPA will ultimately prevail, or that they will succeed in delaying any action until after the season, they are far better served by Brady's suspension being at the beginning of the year rather than the end. In addition to that, despite the short term issues, The Patriots are part of the NFL management, and their best interest are not served by the NFLPA prevailing in court. It is a sticky situation for Kraft, but I would be surprised if that private conversation between he and Brady did not take place.
LeGOATski Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 "The fact that the NFL would resort to basing a suspension on a smoke screen of irrelevant text messages instead of admitting that they have all of the phone records they asked for is a new low, even for them..." What does this mean? They seem to be implying that the NFL got everything they asked for from Brady, but even Brady admits that he didn't give up the relevant phone records. They're also implying that they know for a fact the unprovided texts are irrelevant. Does that mean the NFLPA has seen all of Brady's relevant phone records? Why would he show them to the NFLPA and not Wells? This makes no sense.
The Wiz Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 "The fact that the NFL would resort to basing a suspension on a smoke screen of irrelevant text messages instead of admitting that they have all of the phone records they asked for is a new low, even for them..." What does this mean? They seem to be implying that the NFL got everything they asked for from Brady, but even Brady admits that he didn't give up the relevant phone records. They're also implying that they know for a fact the unprovided texts are irrelevant. Does that mean the NFLPA has seen all of Brady's relevant phone records? Why would he show them to the NFLPA and not Wells? This makes no sense. Showing them to Wells makes the evidence even more damning. Showing them to the NFLPA is likely to prepare for trial. Although it still doesn't make sense because those text messages would then need to be given to the NFL lawyers if they planned to submit any of them as evidence.
Deranged Rhino Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 Gotta give the NFL credit, they timed this thing perfectly. Right before camps open, hype up the drama. There really is no off season anymore.
LeGOATski Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 Showing them to Wells makes the evidence even more damning. Showing them to the NFLPA is likely to prepare for trial. Although it still doesn't make sense because those text messages would then need to be given to the NFL lawyers if they planned to submit any of them as evidence. Maybe the NFLPA is just using a smoke screen to counter the NFLs smoke screen...
plenzmd1 Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 How badly has Brady's team mismanaged this? Well...Wells and the NFL had no right to Brady's phone. The most that they could do was ask, and he was within his rights saying "no." And, in fact, he could have used that in the appeal of his suspension, to argue that he was being punished for non-cooperation when he was well within his rights to not cooperate. He's also within his rights to destroy the phone...because it's his phone, and he has no responsibility to preserve it for any reason. Except his dumbass representatives, and the NFLPA, announce their intent to seek redress in court if the suspension isn't overturned. THAT means he had a reasonable expectation of the phone and its contents being evidence in a case. So NOW, he's destroying evidence. Which means he tanked not only his appeal, but his court case too. Brilliant strategy. How does this dumbass even win football games? (Oh, that's right. He cheats.) Well, he destroyed the phone March 6, well before the Wells report was published and well before any suspension was announced... So your argument is speciios at best and more likely ..... You are just an idiot!
PlayoffsPlease Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) The appeal will NOT be based on the facts of whether or not the balls were deflated at Brady's or anyone elses direction. The NFLPA has already laid out what the appeal will likely be based on: ■ The NFL had no policy that applied to players; ■ The NFL provided no notice of any such policy or potential discipline to players; ■ The NFL resorted to a nebulous standard of “general awareness” to predicate a legally unjustified punishment; ■ The NFL had no procedures in place until two days ago to test air pressure in footballs; and ■ The NFL violated the plain meaning of the collective bargaining agreement.If that is a basis for a lawsuit, Brady's text messages won't be relevant. And therefore its unlikely a supboena would be granted for those records. Edited July 28, 2015 by PlayoffsPlease
LeGOATski Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 The appeal will NOT be based on the facts of whether or not the balls were deflated at Brady's or anyone elses direction. The NFLPA has already laid out what the appeal will likely be based on: ■ The NFL had no policy that applied to players; ■ The NFL provided no notice of any such policy or potential discipline to players; ■ The NFL resorted to a nebulous standard of “general awareness” to predicate a legally unjustified punishment; ■ The NFL had no procedures in place until two days ago to test air pressure in footballs; and ■ The NFL violated the plain meaning of the collective bargaining agreement. If that is a basis for a lawsuit, Brady's text messages won't be relevant. And therefore its unlikely a supboena would be granted. The only one that seems legit is the third one. The standard of "general awareness." It seems like it could be successfully argued in court, but the NFL stuck to the system constructed by the CBA. How much more definitive could they get, especially when Brady wasn't legally required to cooperate and chose not to?
webtoe Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 Basically they are going to try and get off on a technicality The appeal will NOT be based on the facts of whether or not the balls were deflated at Brady's or anyone elses direction. The NFLPA has already laid out what the appeal will likely be based on: ■ The NFL had no policy that applied to players; ■ The NFL provided no notice of any such policy or potential discipline to players; ■ The NFL resorted to a nebulous standard of “general awareness” to predicate a legally unjustified punishment; ■ The NFL had no procedures in place until two days ago to test air pressure in footballs; and ■ The NFL violated the plain meaning of the collective bargaining agreement. If that is a basis for a lawsuit, Brady's text messages won't be relevant. And therefore its unlikely a supboena would be granted.
K-9 Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 The appeal will NOT be based on the facts of whether or not the balls were deflated at Brady's or anyone elses direction. The NFLPA has already laid out what the appeal will likely be based on: ■ The NFL had no policy that applied to players; ■ The NFL provided no notice of any such policy or potential discipline to players; ■ The NFL resorted to a nebulous standard of “general awareness” to predicate a legally unjustified punishment; ■ The NFL had no procedures in place until two days ago to test air pressure in footballs; and ■ The NFL violated the plain meaning of the collective bargaining agreement. If that is a basis for a lawsuit, Brady's text messages won't be relevant. And therefore its unlikely a supboena would be granted. Why would that be relevant if the case won't be about whether or not the balls were deflated? Which I agree with. The air pressure and "the science" has always been a sideshow. If you haven't already read KellyTheFairandBalancedDog's link to the Forbes article, it's worth it. After reading that article and looking at the bullet points outlined above, Brady has no chance on the merits. His best chance appears to be to show bias by Goodell. Given the wide latitude given the commissioner regarding the question of integrity of the game and maintaining the public trust in the game, I don't think he stands much of a chance on those grounds, either. GO BILLS!!!
BaaadThingsMan Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 If it goes to court couldn't the 2 locker room attendants be called in and questioned further, possibly having their cell phones or other materials turned over as evidence as well? I'm betting those fellas still have plenty of evidence to give.
DC Tom Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 Well, he destroyed the phone March 6, well before the Wells report was published and well before any suspension was announced... So your argument is speciios at best and more likely ..... You are just an idiot! I believe the NFLPA had announced their intention to take this all the way to court even before that.
LeGOATski Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 If it goes to court couldn't the 2 locker room attendants be called in and questioned further, possibly having their cell phones or other materials turned over as evidence as well? I'm betting those fellas still have plenty of evidence to give. They would have no need for that if it's only about determining Goodell's ability to provide fair and unbiased arbitration. But, the NFLPA's statement doesn't even address the arbitration issue, unless that's what they're referring to with the last bullet point.
The Wiz Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 They would have no need for that if it's only about determining Goodell's ability to provide fair and unbiased arbitration. But, the NFLPA's statement doesn't even address the arbitration issue, unless that's what they're referring to with the last bullet point. Likely the last one because it is pretty much "the NFL did something we didn't like". It's so broad that they can throw everything they feel like within the CBA at them. Which in its own right again, is someone complaining about something they agreed to.
Big Turk Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Oh, this is great: Albert Breer @AlbertBreer 1m1 minute ago Brady communicated to the commissioner that he routinely destroys his phone for security reasons. As Maury would say: the lie detector test determined THAT WAS A LIE!! Edited July 28, 2015 by matter2003
NoSaint Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 I really hope the 4 games stick. But as I think about it, this is just setting up for the inevitable 2-game settlement. Allegedly they were pretty close to settling at 1 Which would be a very bills-y outcome for us. Though the very patriot outcome would be week 17 after they've clinched he serves it
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) I really hope the 4 games stick. But as I think about it, this is just setting up for the inevitable 2-game settlement. I honestly don't think so. I am watching Schefter on ESPN 2 and he said he heard that a one game settlement as a possibility if he just admitted some culpability. NOOOOOOOOPE. Edited July 28, 2015 by WhitewalkerInPhilly
Rocky Landing Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 Schadenfreude, anyone? http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/find-new/3460656/posts
LeGOATski Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 Likely the last one because it is pretty much "the NFL did something we didn't like". It's so broad that they can throw everything they feel like within the CBA at them. Which in its own right again, is someone complaining about something they agreed to. I downloaded the CBA so I'd be familiar with the appropriate sections. I guess a good lawyer could manipulate the meaning of the words to favor the NFLPA, but the "plain meaning" seems to be in favor of the NFL.
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