dave mcbride Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 Sure, to a megalomaniac troll. Are you winning the rest of the internet today? GO BILLS!!! WEO isn't trolling. He just disagrees with you.
Mr. WEO Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 If you were Brady and the NFLPA, wouldn't you have demanded all 1,000 plus pages of the full report early on? Do you imagine the league would say no to that demand? GO BILLS!!! Do you think the NFL would give that actual document?
K-9 Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 Some of us are trying to have a discussion. That's all. No, you are trying to "win" a debate here. Otherwise, why the white flag comment? GO BILLS!!!
Kelly the Dog Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 Some of us are trying to have a discussion. That's all. No, one person is trying to have a discussion. One person is trolling. I'm trying to answer your questions but you simply refuse read or understand or have previous knowledge of what actually happened and continually play this stupid game. I'm actually an idiot for playing along. I admit.
Mr. WEO Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 WEO isn't trolling. He just disagrees with you. To a superior mind like K-9's, such cannot be possible. Therefore I am a troll! No, you are trying to "win" a debate here. Otherwise, why the white flag comment? GO BILLS!!! Because this is what one says when they can't really join the converstation or consider what's being said.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 Oh, the NFL told you so. Who are you expecting to come out and say that Pash altered the document significantly?? Come on. You are saying that he didn't change it because the NFL told you so--or no one told you he didn't. If the NFLPA had any reason to believe the content was changed they would have made those specific allegations about what was changed and what was not true about the report that Pash made different from what Wells found. I totally understand what they are doing, it's their job. But there aren't even any allegations or accusations other than they were colluding because they were told that Pash edited the thing. But pash wasn't involved in the investigation at all.
K-9 Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 traditionally, the nfl has not supplied that info to players in this spot - it was a major issue in bounty gate in fact. so your arguments that the nflpa/brady would be up in arms if they found something left out might be an issue of them not knowing if anything included was slanted, or there was pertinent info left out. or it could back ktds assertion that all is on the up and up if theyve been supplied it. If I were Brady and the NFLPA I would have demanded it as soon as possible. And if the league denied that request, I'd be all over that from both a legal and public opinion aspect. I'd make it the crux of my argument against the league. Brady and the NFLPA have a right to that information, plain and simple. I'd be shocked to learn they asked for and were denied the entirety of the Wells report. GO BILLS!!!
Kelly the Dog Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 Oh, the NFL told you so. Who are you expecting to come out and say that Pash altered the document significantly?? Come on. You are saying that he didn't change it because the NFL told you so--or no one told you he didn't. No I am saying he didn't change it for the same reasons I told you he didn't change it a few separate times before in this thread.
K-9 Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 To a superior mind like K-9's, such cannot be possible. Therefore I am a troll! Because this is what one says when they can't really join the converstation or consider what's being said. I've got pages of posts in this thread that indicate my participation in the conversation so, you are wrong here, too. GO BILLS!!!
boyst Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 Some of ya'll are embarrassing yourselves The patriots and Brady cheated. There is no doubt. White lies and ignorance or simple negligence to malicious intent. They cheated. Why is this debatable? Because of reading comprehension by some people?
Mr. WEO Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 Some of ya'll are embarrassing yourselves The patriots and Brady cheated. There is no doubt. White lies and ignorance or simple negligence to malicious intent. They cheated. Why is this debatable? Because of reading comprehension by some people? No one here is debating that...
boyst Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 No one here is debating that...they are, though. Declaring victories in mini battles or drama over the nuances of his cheating. That's what is funny.
Mr. WEO Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 they are, though. Declaring victories in mini battles or drama over the nuances of his cheating. That's what is funny. See? There is value in all of this.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 they are, though. Declaring victories in mini battles or drama over the nuances of his cheating. That's what is funny.Exactly. And insinuating that the NFL changed the content of the Wells Report after Wells completed his Investigation automatically implies that they think Brady didn't cheat or didn't lie as much - because if the content wasn't changed for that what is the point of complaining about it. It's immaterial and a technicality that has no bearing on the cash and is just petty bitching.
Mr. WEO Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 Exactly. And insinuating that the NFL changed the content of the Wells Report after Wells completed his Investigation automatically implies that they think Brady didn't cheat or didn't lie as much - because if the content wasn't changed for that what is the point of complaining about it. It's immaterial and a technicality that has no bearing on the cash and is just petty bitching. No, it really doesn't. We have been discussing th independence of Wells as an investigator. You accept without question the NFL's (implied?) claim that Pash din't alter the report in any real way. I am skpetical that an organization that wants an independent reviewer would hire their own lawyer as such and that that lawyer would allow the NFL to edit his independent report in a any way whatsoever. I can't think of a singe reason why Pash would have to "punch up" that report. What would need to be clarified by him (who had "nothing to do with the investigation") for his bosses (Goodell) and others to understand what Wells had sated in the report? Can you at least tell us that?
NoSaint Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 No, it really doesn't. We have been discussing th independence of Wells as an investigator. You accept without question the NFL's (implied?) claim that Pash din't alter the report in any real way. I am skpetical that an organization that wants an independent reviewer would hire their own lawyer as such and that that lawyer would allow the NFL to edit his independent report in a any way whatsoever. I can't think of a singe reason why Pash would have to "punch up" that report. What would need to be clarified by him (who had "nothing to do with the investigation") for his bosses (Goodell) and others to understand what Wells had sated in the report? Can you at least tell us that? i still doubt it was anything significant, despite diverging into this topic. id venture my earlier sentiment that the league kind of treated this as a press release instead of a piece of evidence covers it. id be surprised if they fabricated anything out of thin air (though they have before), but would not be shocked if they dropped some "unlikely to change conclusions but provides some red meat" type of sentences.
dave mcbride Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) No, it really doesn't. We have been discussing th independence of Wells as an investigator. You accept without question the NFL's (implied?) claim that Pash din't alter the report in any real way. I am skpetical that an organization that wants an independent reviewer would hire their own lawyer as such and that that lawyer would allow the NFL to edit his independent report in a any way whatsoever. I can't think of a singe reason why Pash would have to "punch up" that report. What would need to be clarified by him (who had "nothing to do with the investigation") for his bosses (Goodell) and others to understand what Wells had sated in the report? Can you at least tell us that? I don't disagree with this, actually. Fwiw, in my first real job out of college, I worked as a paralegal at a big DC law firm that employed both Tagliabue and Jeff Pash. Pash gave a lunchtime talk to the paralegals one day, and during the Q & A I asked a question about the Freeman McNeill case (the firm handled the NFL's business). His answer was that plan B system that was in existence at the time was good for everyone and more or less indicated that McNeill had a poor case that would result in a loss for the players. He was slightly haughty about it too. I've been a bit biased about him ever since, and hence my thinking about him might be unfair. But at least you know where I'm coming from. I've never regarded him as a particularly admirable person, although of course I don't know him personally. Edited August 12, 2015 by dave mcbride
Kelly the Dog Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 i still doubt it was anything significant, despite diverging into this topic. id venture my earlier sentiment that the league kind of treated this as a press release instead of a piece of evidence covers it. id be surprised if they fabricated anything out of thin air (though they have before), but would not be shocked if they dropped some "unlikely to change conclusions but provides some red meat" type of sentences. If they changed anything that mattered, the little pisspot Wells would have thrown a hissy fit. The point is, sure, we can argue whether or not the NFL should or should not have done that, and we already have, and I think we all agree it was not smart or downright dumb. No one here that I have seen is arguing that. But in order for any of it to make any difference whatsoever, you would have to believe he changed content, and that notion is preposterous because of several reasons that have already been laid out and debated to death. It was dumb. Yes. Did it change anything that actually matters? No. Because if Pash did it, it's a 10x bigger scandal than Deflategate itself. I don't disagree with this, actually. Fwiw, in my first real job out of college, I worked as a paralegal at a big DC law firm that employed both Tagliabue and Jeff Pash. Pash gave a lunchtime talk to the paralegals one day, and during the Q & A I asked a question about the Freeman McNeill case (the firm handled the NFL's business). His answer was that plan B system that was in existence at the time was good for everyone and more or less indicated that McNeill had a poor case that would result in a loss for the players. I've been a bit biased about him ever since, and hence my thinking about him might be unfair. But at least you know where I'm coming from. I've never regarded him as a particularly admirable person, although of course I don't know him personally. I don't really either. Nor do I think Wells is all that admirable. Nor do I think Goodell is all that admirable. It's downright almost impossible to find one person in this whole mess who is admirable. But unless you want to even consider the fact that Jeff Pash altered the findings and conclusions of Wells to make Brady more guilty when he wasn't, and Wells and Goodell just played along with that, arguing that he did anything other than edit/wordsmith something that he shouldn't have edited is something everyone already agrees on.
dave mcbride Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 I don't really either. Nor do I think Wells is all that admirable. Nor do I think Goodell is all that admirable. It's downright almost impossible to find one person in this whole mess who is admirable. But unless you want to even consider the fact that Jeff Pash altered the findings and conclusions of Wells to make Brady more guilty when he wasn't, and Wells and Goodell just played along with that, arguing that he did anything other than edit/wordsmith something that he shouldn't have edited is something everyone already agrees on. I of course have no idea. I don't find it probable, but honestly, I wouldn't put it past him. Those guys play hardball, and Pash in particular always has. As I recall, he was the attack dog for Tags (who seemed very nice and had a reputation for being very nice). If I were you, at this point I wouldn't assume anything about the level of editing he did. ALSO: for those who want to follow this in real time: https://twitter.com/PPVSRB
The Dean Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 I'm guessing somewhere in this 101 page thread, this has already been addressed. But believe it or not, I'm too busy to read the whole damn things. A client of mine is a very busy Arbitration judge, mostly dealing with union/management issues. We got to talking about the Brady thing. He basically thinks the issue comes down to this: The NFLPA agreed to give Goodell and the NFL the power to make these decisions, and dole out the punishment. The court only needs to look at the legality of the contract. If it's in order, the court shouldn't be able to overturn the suspension. Now, we know that isn't the way it's going to go down. But it's probably the way it should, IMO.
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