JohnC Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Wait, the league is supposed to reduce the suspension by 75%, despite the fact that Brady admits that he didn't cooperate in the investigation, and has contradicted himself repeatedly in his attempts to explain away his alleged involvement in the deflating? That sounds excessive. I've said all along that I expected 4 games reduced to 2 on appeal. To me, that seems fair. How has he contradicted himself? Under oath he has stated that he was not involved in a conspiracy. On that issue he has not deviated from his position. I am not wedded to any specific amount of games, although I consider the four game suspension absurdly unfair. If there is an agreement of one or two games that would be fine. The issue from Brady's standpoint is that he is not willing to acknowledge that he participated in the deflation of the balls below the acceptable limit. I have no problem with him maintaining his position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Schefter and Rapaport are both saying people close to Brady insist he is not willing to settle for any suspension at all. I assume the earlier reports were trial balloons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 How has he contradicted himself? Under oath he has stated that he was not involved in a conspiracy. On that issue he has not deviated from his position. I am not wedded to any specific amount of games, although I consider the four game suspension absurdly unfair. If there is an agreement of one or two games that would be fine. The issue from Brady's standpoint is that he is not willing to acknowledge that he participated in the deflation of the balls below the acceptable limit. I have no problem with him maintaining his position. "I destroy all of my cell phones when I replace them with new ones" Proceeds to provide cell phone before last as evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I cant wait for Brady to retire. Feels like he has been playing forever and that there is no end in sight CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in KC Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 How has he contradicted himself? Under oath he has stated that he was not involved in a conspiracy. On that issue he has not deviated from his position. I am not wedded to any specific amount of games, although I consider the four game suspension absurdly unfair. If there is an agreement of one or two games that would be fine. The issue from Brady's standpoint is that he is not willing to acknowledge that he participated in the deflation of the balls below the acceptable limit. I have no problem with him maintaining his position. I've appreciated your posts on this topic, including the link to today's update. Why do you the 4 game suspension is absurdly unfair? I certainly think the investigation met the required threshold to consider him guilty. Do you just think the penalty is too high, compared to. . . past fines for similar equipment violations? And preemptively, sorry if you've said this previously, maybe even multiple times. (I don't see it in the last 5 pages.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 How has he contradicted himself? Under oath he has stated that he was not involved in a conspiracy. On that issue he has not deviated from his position. I am not wedded to any specific amount of games, although I consider the four game suspension absurdly unfair. If there is an agreement of one or two games that would be fine. The issue from Brady's standpoint is that he is not willing to acknowledge that he participated in the deflation of the balls below the acceptable limit. I have no problem with him maintaining his position. Aside from the obvious cell phone destruction gaffe that Hokie alluded to, there's also: - Claiming he never expressed a preference for a firmer/softer football, when in fact he had done so multiple times in the past - Saying he didn't know McNally (or at least, that he didn't know his name), when in fact he was providing him with autographed merchandise on multiple occasions - Then there's the matter of his testimony while under oath, which was convoluted and confused at best. Stuff like Brady not knowing who he confronted about the pressure in the Jets game, whether or not he discussed inflation conditions with Jastremski, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Best quote was from: Kessler: "No one in the NFL knew anything about the ideal gas law, which is surprising because I think I studied that in 9th grade." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Best quote was from: Kessler: "No one in the NFL knew anything about the ideal gas law, which is surprising because I think I studied that in 9th grade." LOL! Was the onus on the league to "know anything about the ideal gas law" or the experts they hired? Is Kessler suggesting that Exponent and Prof. Marlow didn't know anything about the ideal gas law? Reviewing Kessler's briefs and listening to his style when addressing the court leaves me unimpressed. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Watch Brady get the four full games and still win the frickin frackin Superbowl again this year. Like Jordan, the more you piss him off, the better he gets. That Tom Brady, he's just so smug. I can't stand him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmasThoman Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I wanted to fill you in on an interesting insight I heard from someone whom I consider to be fairly reliable (he also knows some of the dealings with the PR firm the Patriots outsourced for the social media flood that you guys bang your head against in every comment section on PFT and ESPN, and quite frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if they're using dummy accounts here that were activated long ago, but I digress): Essentially, the league knows that Bill Beliceck is behind this entire process, and was the main party responsible for instructing the ball boys in how to do what they do by way of stealing and deflating balls to a specific PSI. Believe it or not, Brady is actually innocent, to the extent that he did not command his underlings, OR orchestrate this operation. Because of Spygate, the league was faced with the prospect of essentially banning Beliceck for life, which would have invalidated the last decade and a half of NFL football. So, the ball boys were gagged and fired (that's what she said), Kraft paid a fine, and this now public debacle was heaped on Brady, because the public smelled blood in the water, and the Patriots absolutely CAN NOT walk away from this with no penalty after Spygate. HOWEVER, there IS no evidence that pins it on Brady, and he DID destroy his phone because him and Giselle have been on the rocks for months and he gets a new phone every 3 months. Beliceck, Goodell, and Kraft (who are still very much buddy buddy), assumed Brady would gladly be "the fall guy", and cooperate, and take a game or 2 suspension. Apparently Brady balked at this notion (which actually makes me respect him), and the league was painted into a corner. The word is: win lose or draw this is Belicecks last season coaching and Brady is moving on from New England after this season because he is disgusted by how it went down, but because the league writes his paycheck, he cant turn state. Take it for what it's worth, but I believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) LOL! Was the onus on the league to "know anything about the ideal gas law" or the experts they hired? Is Kessler suggesting that Exponent and Prof. Marlow didn't know anything about the ideal gas law? Reviewing Kessler's briefs and listening to his style when addressing the court leaves me unimpressed. GO BILLS!!! At this stage I can't imagine the NFL truly believes anything that anyone, involved in their side of this fiasco, concluded. The basis for their argument seems to be that none of it matters because what Goodell says, goes. Edited August 19, 2015 by Pneumonic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I wanted to fill you in on an interesting insight I heard from someone whom I consider to be fairly reliable (he also knows some of the dealings with the PR firm the Patriots outsourced for the social media flood that you guys bang your head against in every comment section on PFT and ESPN, and quite frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if they're using dummy accounts here that were activated long ago, but I digress): Essentially, the league knows that Bill Beliceck is behind this entire process, and was the main party responsible for instructing the ball boys in how to do what they do by way of stealing and deflating balls to a specific PSI. Believe it or not, Brady is actually innocent, to the extent that he did not command his underlings, OR orchestrate this operation. Because of Spygate, the league was faced with the prospect of essentially banning Beliceck for life, which would have invalidated the last decade and a half of NFL football. So, the ball boys were gagged and fired (that's what she said), Kraft paid a fine, and this now public debacle was heaped on Brady, because the public smelled blood in the water, and the Patriots absolutely CAN NOT walk away from this with no penalty after Spygate. HOWEVER, there IS no evidence that pins it on Brady, and he DID destroy his phone because him and Giselle have been on the rocks for months and he gets a new phone every 3 months. Beliceck, Goodell, and Kraft (who are still very much buddy buddy), assumed Brady would gladly be "the fall guy", and cooperate, and take a game or 2 suspension. Apparently Brady balked at this notion (which actually makes me respect him), and the league was painted into a corner. The word is: win lose or draw this is Belicecks last season coaching and Brady is moving on from New England after this season because he is disgusted by how it went down, but because the league writes his paycheck, he cant turn state. Take it for what it's worth, but I believe it. I cannot describe just how much I would love for this to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 At this stage I can't imagine the NFL truly believes anything that anyone, involved in their side of this fiasco, concluded. The basis for their argument seems to be that none of it matters because what Goodell says, goes. Actually their argument is that Brady cheated and none of the other stuff matters because we know he cheated and then lied about it. Now there is some chance that their negligence and stupidity after the fact may get him off on a technicality. I still don't think that will happen but it's possible because they are acting so stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I wanted to fill you in on an interesting insight I heard from someone whom I consider to be fairly reliable (he also knows some of the dealings with the PR firm the Patriots outsourced for the social media flood that you guys bang your head against in every comment section on PFT and ESPN, and quite frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if they're using dummy accounts here that were activated long ago, but I digress): Essentially, the league knows that Bill Beliceck is behind this entire process, and was the main party responsible for instructing the ball boys in how to do what they do by way of stealing and deflating balls to a specific PSI. Believe it or not, Brady is actually innocent, to the extent that he did not command his underlings, OR orchestrate this operation. Because of Spygate, the league was faced with the prospect of essentially banning Beliceck for life, which would have invalidated the last decade and a half of NFL football. So, the ball boys were gagged and fired (that's what she said), Kraft paid a fine, and this now public debacle was heaped on Brady, because the public smelled blood in the water, and the Patriots absolutely CAN NOT walk away from this with no penalty after Spygate. HOWEVER, there IS no evidence that pins it on Brady, and he DID destroy his phone because him and Giselle have been on the rocks for months and he gets a new phone every 3 months. Beliceck, Goodell, and Kraft (who are still very much buddy buddy), assumed Brady would gladly be "the fall guy", and cooperate, and take a game or 2 suspension. Apparently Brady balked at this notion (which actually makes me respect him), and the league was painted into a corner. The word is: win lose or draw this is Belicecks last season coaching and Brady is moving on from New England after this season because he is disgusted by how it went down, but because the league writes his paycheck, he cant turn state. Take it for what it's worth, but I believe it. Where there's smoke, there's usually fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I wanted to fill you in on an interesting insight I heard from someone whom I consider to be fairly reliable (he also knows some of the dealings with the PR firm the Patriots outsourced for the social media flood that you guys bang your head against in every comment section on PFT and ESPN, and quite frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if they're using dummy accounts here that were activated long ago, but I digress): Essentially, the league knows that Bill Beliceck is behind this entire process, and was the main party responsible for instructing the ball boys in how to do what they do by way of stealing and deflating balls to a specific PSI. Believe it or not, Brady is actually innocent, to the extent that he did not command his underlings, OR orchestrate this operation. Because of Spygate, the league was faced with the prospect of essentially banning Beliceck for life, which would have invalidated the last decade and a half of NFL football. So, the ball boys were gagged and fired (that's what she said), Kraft paid a fine, and this now public debacle was heaped on Brady, because the public smelled blood in the water, and the Patriots absolutely CAN NOT walk away from this with no penalty after Spygate. HOWEVER, there IS no evidence that pins it on Brady, and he DID destroy his phone because him and Giselle have been on the rocks for months and he gets a new phone every 3 months. Beliceck, Goodell, and Kraft (who are still very much buddy buddy), assumed Brady would gladly be "the fall guy", and cooperate, and take a game or 2 suspension. Apparently Brady balked at this notion (which actually makes me respect him), and the league was painted into a corner. The word is: win lose or draw this is Belicecks last season coaching and Brady is moving on from New England after this season because he is disgusted by how it went down, but because the league writes his paycheck, he cant turn state. Take it for what it's worth, but I believe it. This all makes way too much sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I cannot describe just how much I would love for this to be true. There doesn't seem to be any reason or chance in hell that Belichick did it without Brady's knowledge. It's possible I guess that Brady wasn't behind it and went along with it and it wasn't Brady's original idea. But there is no way BB did this to his QB that wins him all those games. It makes zero sense. It makes sense if Brady knew about it and was complicit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 LOL! Was the onus on the league to "know anything about the ideal gas law" or the experts they hired? Is Kessler suggesting that Exponent and Prof. Marlow didn't know anything about the ideal gas law? Reviewing Kessler's briefs and listening to his style when addressing the court leaves me unimpressed. GO BILLS!!! When asked by Judge Berman in what order he was submitting his four arguments his reply was apparently that they could be taken in any order since each of them was sufficient to dispose of the case in Brady's Favour. If he really said that the man is an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Actually their argument is that Brady cheated and none of the other stuff matters because we know he cheated and then lied about it. I think, would hope, they are too smart to believe what you suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 There doesn't seem to be any reason or chance in hell that Belichick did it without Brady's knowledge. It's possible I guess that Brady wasn't behind it and went along with it and it wasn't Brady's original idea. But there is no way BB did this to his QB that wins him all those games. It makes zero sense. It makes sense if Brady knew about it and was complicit. Makes zero sense? It makes perfect sense. Why would he implicate someone if he didn't have to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I've appreciated your posts on this topic, including the link to today's update. Why do you the 4 game suspension is absurdly unfair? I certainly think the investigation met the required threshold to consider him guilty. Do you just think the penalty is too high, compared to. . . past fines for similar equipment violations? And preemptively, sorry if you've said this previously, maybe even multiple times. (I don't see it in the last 5 pages.) The investigation has not met the threshold. (That's my opinion.) The league has made the argument that the Wells investigation was independent. When it was demonstrated that it wasn't true the league's position changed to it is irrelevant whether it was independent or not. The judge has basically discredited not only the basis of the Wells report but also the conclusion of the report. When the judge asked the league attorneys what direct evidence did they have regarding Brady's participation in the alleged conspiracy in the deflation of the balls their response was that they had none. The league has reduced their argument to this: We have the authority to make a determination regardless of the facts and the guidelines used in prior cases. In the San Diego "stickum" ball case no player was fined. The franchise was fined $25,000. In a cold weather game in Minnesota where the balls were heated (against the rules) the team was fined $25,000. No player was held accountable. Let's put things in perspective: the alleged ball tampering had no bearing on the game and no bearing on anyone's performance. The league has spent reportedly $5 million for an investigation that was a sham and it has dragged out this moronic case for more than half a year and still counting. Whatever happened wasn't worthy of the league's incredibly disproportionate response compared to the level of the alleged transgression. The only smart thing that the league has done on this issue is to standardize how the balls are now inflated and now maintain control of the balls instead of allowing teams to handle the balls. In other words the problem has simply been resolved on this inconsequential issue that has distracted the public from the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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