Pneumonic Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 This (as many of your posts) is intellectually dishonest at best. People on here have been rather measured in their responses to you, and have even taken you at your word that you are a "scientist." With a post as reaching as this one, I have to wonder. Whether or not you are a "scientist" (quotation marks earned, at this point), you have abandoned any credibility as being open-minded, unbiased, or honest. What are you questioning? That it is illegal to deflate balls? My defn of the application of Occam's principle or that the guy who Occam's Principle is named after hails from Ockham England? Or, all of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 If this was not allowed, there would be few posters left... Of course it's allowed, just as my opinion of it is allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 No! His positions correspond to mine. In addition, I rooted for the Pats in the SB against the Seahawks. So does that make my views suspicious or invalid? Am I a traitor to whatever imaginary cause? So you can read what follows and believe in Brady's innocence? No, the information has been steadily streaming out from both sides. I asked you directly, on multiple occasions, what NFL team you cheer for...you've ignored it each time. I also notice that you specifically make it a point to talk about what an embarrassment the league is on this subject, while blindly accepting Brady's incongruous stammering as a testimony that even closely resembles what an innocent person would say. A guy that calls himself "The Deflator" took footballs (after they were measured) into a room with no cameras, claiming that he had to use a urinal that doesn't exist. He stayed there long enough to remove an appreciable amount of air from 12 footballs. Those footballs were later found to be deflated to a degree that neither the Ideal Gas Law nor the Van der Waals equation can explain, even including all contributing factors. Those same two equations also cannot account for why those balls deflated more than the other team's balls. This same "Deflator" has dozens of incriminating text messages that implicate that the QB directs them to fill the balls to a certain degree. In fact, the organization in question fired said "Deflator" and his accomplice; an explanation of that has never been given by the way. The QB claims to (a) not know Mr. "Deflator" and (b) not have spoken to him or his partner in ball-handling about football prep, which he then goes back on in open court. He also destroys his cell phone containing all of his correspondence on the very day he's set to speak with the investigator about the controversy, claiming that he does so whenever he gets a new phone (which is proven not to be the case). He then goes on to provide, for both actions, what reads as the most twisted, convoluted testimony possible to explain his discussions with the ball handlers and his destruction of his phone. Moreover, we, as fans, are supposed to believe that Tom Brady, who petitioned the NFL to give QBs more freedom to prepare footballs the way they like, who meticulously and pedantically studies every aspect of the game (and game preparation), and who is on record as saying that he likes his footballs a bit lower on the pressure scale, provided absolutely no feedback to these two maroons regarding preparing the ball, and had no idea what they were doing? I'm sorry, but there's no explanation for all of this that fits in with the "I didn't do it" defense. EDIT: I'll also add that there was no categorical denial in your response. So I will ask again: what NFL team do you cheer for? IMO, it takes an exceptional amount of willful ignorance to make that conclusion While perhaps late for your timeline, I did answered you (earlier today) after I read your query. Not that I've seen. And even if you had, would it be so difficult to re type a team name? No matter, the evasiveness tells me all I need to know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) Quick fact question--has anyone seen Brady or the Pats* claim that it was normal for someone like McNally to receive so much swag from Brady? If they did, you'd think that Brady and the Pats* would be shouting that from the rooftop as part of their defense. If they aren't doing that, and there are no such other folks at McNally's level receiving things like autographed game worn jerseys and free sneakers, then that's really about all a reasonable person needs to know.... Edited August 7, 2015 by MattM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l< j Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Given what you now know about equipment infractions across all major team sports in the US, why do you think Brady deserves a suspension amounting to 12.5 percent of the season (forget the penalty for the coverup) when no league -- including the NFL!!! -- suspends players for anything close to that amount for similar infractions? That's an actual FACT, and that's why I always thought your argument in defense of the actual penalty was a bit half-baked -- the thinking of a prosecutorial mind (rather than a fair mind). Find me another example in the history of any pro sports league where a player and team employees conspired to STEAL game balls or pucks or whatever from a game official. This is not in any way equivalent to a pitcher using a foreign substance, a corked bat, or a wide goalie pad. Find me an example from another sport that is remotely equivalent and then I'll be happy to compare punishments. You are the Distractor. kj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Find me another example in the history of any pro sports league where a player and team employees conspired to STEAL game balls or pucks or whatever from a game official. This is not in any way equivalent to a pitcher using a foreign substance, a corked bat, or a wide goalie pad. Find me an example from another sport that is remotely equivalent and then I'll be happy to compare punishments. You are the Distractor. kj San Diego altered the balls by putting stickum on them. Balls were being heating up in a cold weather game (violation of equipment tampering) between the Vikings and Panthers. Minimal fines were incurred in each incident. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/07/ball-tampering-involving-panthers-vikings-produced-a-far-different-reaction/ http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/07/ball-tampering-involving-panthers-vikings-produced-a-far-different-reaction/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 San Diego altered the balls by putting stickum on them. Balls were being heating up in a cold weather game (violation of equipment tampering) between the Vikings and Panthers. Minimal fines were incurred in each incident. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/07/ball-tampering-involving-panthers-vikings-produced-a-far-different-reaction/ http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/07/ball-tampering-involving-panthers-vikings-produced-a-far-different-reaction/ Of note, mister "I love Tahmmy Boy", there was no denial of those occurrences. No trashing of phones, no lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRQ_BillsFan Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) Find me another example in the history of any pro sports league where a player and team employees conspired to STEAL game balls or pucks or whatever from a game official. This is not in any way equivalent to a pitcher using a foreign substance, a corked bat, or a wide goalie pad. Find me an example from another sport that is remotely equivalent and then I'll be happy to compare punishments. You are the Distractor. kj This to me is a key point. Why steal the balls? I simply don't believe it happens all the time. This is the playoffs. A championship game. Edited August 7, 2015 by SRQ_BillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 This to me is a key point. Why steal the balls? I simply don't believe it happens all the time. This is the playoffs. A championship game. Moreover, why steal the balls, take them into a bathroom where there's no camera, stay in there for a minute and 40 seconds (long enough to remove appreciable air from a dozen footballs), and only then deliver them to the field? Oh wait, it was to use the urinal. Except, of course, that there's no urinal in that bathroom. If this were the only inconsistency in a single person's story, then perhaps the "no foul play" defense could be considered plausible. Combined with the half-dozen other inconsistencies, it makes for an easy preponderance of evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Moreover, why steal the balls, take them into a bathroom where there's no camera, stay in there for a minute and 40 seconds (long enough to remove appreciable air from a dozen footballs), and only then deliver them to the field? Oh wait, it was to use the urinal. Except, of course, that there's no urinal in that bathroom. If this were the only inconsistency in a single person's story, then perhaps the "no foul play" defense could be considered plausible. Combined with the half-dozen other inconsistencies, it makes for an easy preponderance of evidence. But what about the science? There's no science in your scenario, so the entire premise is invalidated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) San Diego altered the balls by putting stickum on them. Balls were being heating up in a cold weather game (violation of equipment tampering) between the Vikings and Panthers. Minimal fines were incurred in each incident. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/07/ball-tampering-involving-panthers-vikings-produced-a-far-different-reaction/ http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/07/ball-tampering-involving-panthers-vikings-produced-a-far-different-reaction/ This is very ridiculous, and not similar at all. If McNally pulled out a pin in front of the officials and started to deflate the footballs after they had checked them, right in front of them, and started deflating the balls to Brady's preferred PSI, the officials would have confronted him, and this certainly wouldn't be what it is. They did far worse in the way they did it, and they did it with Brady's ok. This is leagues different than those situations in which equipment people did things in blatent view of everyone, unknowingly doing it seemingly unaware it was against the rules. (They are allowed to use hand warmers to warm the balls) Also, I am reading that the stick em san diego thing wasn't technically against the rules, but they fined them and said it is frowned upon, the Chargers appealed, and it was reversed. Also it seems as though there was a decent outrage by the Charger fan base to fire everyone involved. Very "not on my team"esque http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000091683/article/san-diego-chargers-fined-20k-by-nfl-in-towel-case The whole story is a little odd. It technically wasn't against the rules to use the towels, but it's no longer going to be allowed. The Chargers didn't gain an advantage, but they were fined anyway. Edited August 7, 2015 by What a Tuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 But what about the science? There's no science in your scenario, so the entire premise is invalidated. Simple...given the information from Goodell's ruling that clears up the gauge confusion, there's zero science that explains the deflation from naturally-occurring factors. The gauge "controversy" was what the science argument had to hang its collective hat upon--they can no longer do so reliably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in KC Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 What's up with all the name-calling? San Diego altered the balls by putting stickum on them. Balls were being heating up in a cold weather game (violation of equipment tampering) between the Vikings and Panthers. Minimal fines were incurred in each incident. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/07/ball-tampering-involving-panthers-vikings-produced-a-far-different-reaction/ http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/07/ball-tampering-involving-panthers-vikings-produced-a-far-different-reaction/ The Panthers one is directly addressed in the appeal decision on page 15: The conduct at issue here is also very different from the ball-warming incident in Minnesota last year, in which a Carolina Panthers ball attendant was observed warming a ball on the Vikings’ sideline; there was no evidence of any intentional attempt to violate or circumvent the rules, no player involvement, and no effort to conceal the ball attendant’s conduct. As (NFL executive VP of football operations) Mr. (Troy) Vincent testified, the ball never got into the game and the matter “was addressed immediately. Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/nfl-blog/article29140732.html#storylink=cpy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Not that I've seen. And even if you had, would it be so difficult to re type a team name? No matter, the evasiveness tells me all I need to know Not that it matters but, what you call evading was simply me not noticing your posted question. Once we were engaged, and you asked me directly, I responded. Moreover, why steal the balls, take them into a bathroom where there's no camera, stay in there for a minute and 40 seconds (long enough to remove appreciable air from a dozen footballs), and only then deliver them to the field? Oh wait, it was to use the urinal. Except, of course, that there's no urinal in that bathroom. If this were the only inconsistency in a single person's story, then perhaps the "no foul play" defense could be considered plausible. Combined with the half-dozen other inconsistencies, it makes for an easy preponderance of evidence. Maybe the dude doesn't know the difference between a urinal and a toilet? Or, he simply refers to both the same? Sure, there is a difference which most people should know but, then again, most people should also know that air pressure naturally drops when going from hot to cold conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Not that it matters but, what you call evading was simply me not noticing your posted question. Once we were engaged, and you asked me directly, I responded. Maybe the dude doesn't know the difference between a urinal and a toilet? Or, he simply refers to both the same? Sure, there is a difference which most people should know but, then again, most people should also know that air pressure naturally drops when going from hot to cold conditions. Occum's Shaver predicts he knows the difference between a toilet and urinal but he is from Mass. so maybe he pooped in the urinal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Not that it matters but, what you call evading was simply me not noticing your posted question. Once we were engaged, and you asked me directly, I responded. Gotcha...so you're a Pats* fan...I'm shocked. Maybe the dude doesn't know the difference between a urinal and a toilet? Or, he simply refers to both the same? Sure, there is a difference which most people should know but, then again, most people should also know that air pressure naturally drops when going from hot to cold conditions. Sure it does, just not anywhere near as much as it did on that day. The science does not predict footballs in the low 11's in pressure provided that NE* was honest about setting the footballs at 12.5 psi. As I said, if that one discrepancy were the only inconsistency, then perhaps the "no foul play" defense could be considered plausible. It's not even close to the only one. As I've pointed out before: A guy that calls himself "The Deflator" took footballs (after they were measured) into a room with no cameras, claiming that he had to use a urinal that doesn't exist. He stayed there long enough to remove an appreciable amount of air from 12 footballs. Those footballs were later found to be deflated to a degree that neither the Ideal Gas Law nor the Van der Waals equation can explain, even including all contributing factors. Those same two equations also cannot account for why those balls deflated more than the other team's balls. This same "Deflator" has dozens of incriminating text messages that implicate that the QB directs them to fill the balls to a certain degree. In fact, the organization in question fired said "Deflator" and his accomplice; an explanation of that has never been given by the way. The QB claims to (a) not know Mr. "Deflator" and (b) not have spoken to him or his partner in ball-handling about football prep, which he then goes back on in open court. He also destroys his cell phone containing all of his correspondence on the very day he's set to speak with the investigator about the controversy, claiming that he does so whenever he gets a new phone (which is proven not to be the case). He then goes on to provide, for both actions, what reads as the most twisted, convoluted testimony possible to explain his discussions with the ball handlers and his destruction of his phone. Moreover, we, as fans, are supposed to believe that Tom Brady, who petitioned the NFL to give QBs more freedom to prepare footballs the way they like, who meticulously and pedantically studies every aspect of the game (and game preparation), and who is on record as saying that he likes his footballs a bit lower on the pressure scale, provided absolutely no feedback to these two maroons regarding preparing the ball, and had no idea what they were doing? I'm sorry, but there's no explanation for all of this that fits in with the "I didn't do it" defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Maybe the dude doesn't know the difference between a urinal and a toilet? Or, he simply refers to both the same? Sure, there is a difference which most people should know but, then again, most people should also know that air pressure naturally drops when going from hot to cold conditions. I don't know what this discussion is even about, but I have to ask: have you ever met a person who referred to a toilet as a urinal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Simple...given the information from Goodell's ruling that clears up the gauge confusion, there's zero science that explains the deflation from naturally-occurring factors. The gauge "controversy" was what the science argument had to hang its collective hat upon--they can no longer do so reliably. Except the science shown in this report is easily refutable by anyone who analyzes the data in an unbiased manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Except the science shown in this report is easily refutable by anyone who analyzes the data in an unbiased manner. I gotta hand it to you. When you pick a lost caused, you really stick with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Except the science shown in this report is easily refutable by anyone who analyzes the data in an unbiased manner. And yet you still haven't explained why the Colts balls deflated at a 50% lower rate in the same conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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