Brady 4 game suspension upheld; Will go to court

[thebandit27]

I can only assume that Kessler knows more about the intricacies of the case than the lawyer that wrote that article. That didn't make sense to me either. If what this article says is true, it seems like NY would have been more favorable all along. Frankly, I don't think it matters one bit. If the NFL doesn't cave they will win.

 

I don't think it's going to come to that. Reading how the judge is directing the process, it appears that he's going to push strongly for some type of settlement, using the "hey losing side, here's how I'm going to rule, so if you don't want it to blow up in your face, go settle, and that way I don't have to waste my time hearing this out" method.

Edited August 4, 2015 by thebandit27

[Kelly the Dog]

I don't think it's going to come to that. Reading how the judge is directing the process, it appears that he's going to push strongly for some type of settlement, using the "hey losing side, here's how I'm going to rule, so if you don't want it to blow up in your face, go settle, and that way I don't have to waste my time hearing this out" method.

Perhaps. Then Brady will simply have to admit guilt and it will be reduced to two games. But if the judge says hey losing side, this is how I am going to rule, why would the NFL settle?

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

 

I don't think it's going to come to that. Reading how the judge is directing the process, it appears that he's going to push strongly for some type of settlement, using the "hey losing side, here's how I'm going to rule, so if you don't want it to blow up in your face, go settle, and that way I don't have to waste my time hearing this out" method.

He does seem to be pushing strong for a settlement, which I think is a good thing.

 

I'd take 2 games. Brady doesn't even have to admit guilt for the Deflation. Two games should be enough for this debacle of a coverup and the following media frenzy in aND of itself.

[Go Kiko go]

The latest on the courts: http://sports-law.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/another-home-field-advantage-for-tom.html

 

The second part of that article--where the author talks about this so-called "heightened bar" to showing that an arbitrator was biased--is a serious misreading of those cases.

 

Those cases deal with arbitration arrangements where each party to the arbitration gets to pick their preferred arbitrator, and then those two arbitrators select a third arbitrator, and case is heard by the resulting group of three arbitrators. For example, under that kind of arrangement, Brady would have picked one arbitrator, the NFL would have picked one arbitrator, and those two arbitrators would have picked a third arbitrator, and together those three people would have heard Brady's appeal. That's not what happened here.

 

As one of the courts observed, in those arrangements, "it is industry custom that party arbitrators are frequently not required or expected to be neutral for ruling on disputes" and "each party is most likely to select someone that ... might see the case a little more from the perspective of the party that appointed the Arbitrator." That's a completely different type of arbitration arrangement than the one here, where there was only one arbitrator--Goodell.

[Kelly the Dog]

He does seem to be pushing strong for a settlement, which I think is a good thing.

 

I'd take 2 games. Brady doesn't even have to admit guilt for the Deflation. Two games should be enough for this debacle of a coverup and the following media frenzy in aND of itself.

For what he actually did as far as the balls go, two games is surely enough, IMO. But just stonewalling and lying and never admitting anything really cannot be tolerated and encourages bad behavior. That's a bigger problem than what he actually did and really should not go unpunished.

 

The second part of that article--where the author talks about this so-called "heightened bar" to showing that an arbitrator was biased--is a serious misreading of those cases.

 

Those cases deal with arbitration arrangements where each party to the arbitration gets to pick their preferred arbitrator, and then those two arbitrators select a third arbitrator, and case is heard by the resulting group of three arbitrators. For example, under that kind of arrangement, Brady would have picked one arbitrator, the NFL would have picked one arbitrator, and those two arbitrators would have picked a third arbitrator, and together those three people would have heard Brady's appeal. That's not what happened here.

 

As one of the courts observed, in those arrangements, "it is industry custom that party arbitrators are frequently not required or expected to be neutral for ruling on disputes" and "each party is most likely to select someone that ... might see the case a little more from the perspective of the party that appointed the Arbitrator." That's a completely different type of arbitration arrangement than the one here, where there was only one arbitrator--Goodell.

Thanks for that clarification. A couple of us were wondering why the Brady camp would not choose NY if that were the case.

[thebandit27]

Perhaps. Then Brady will simply have to admit guilt and it will be reduced to two games. But if the judge says hey losing side, this is how I am going to rule, why would the NFL settle?

 

 

He does seem to be pushing strong for a settlement, which I think is a good thing.

 

I'd take 2 games. Brady doesn't even have to admit guilt for the Deflation. Two games should be enough for this debacle of a coverup and the following media frenzy in aND of itself.

 

Now you two have got me thinking...what if Judge Berman does the following?

 

To Goodell: I'm going to rule in Brady's favor, since you have no concrete proof that he was culpable in the act of tampering. If you don't want me to vacate the entire suspension, get back in there and settle, and stop with the nonsense about making him admit guilt.

 

To Brady: I'm not wiping out this suspension, since obviously something was up based on the messages between those two maroons, and the fact that you abruptly destroyed your phone makes me not want to strike this down. If you don't want to miss 4 games, get back in there and settle, and stop with this full-exoneration nonsense.

[Go Kiko go]

 

Thanks for that clarification. A couple of us were wondering why the Brady camp would not choose NY if that were the case.

 

Yeah, i would take all of this talk about New York courts having more favorable law than Minnesota with a big grain of salt. Nothing I've read suggests that these courts differ in any significant way in the way that the evaluate these kinds of cases. Just because they describe the law using different words (which is what most of that article is based on), doesn't necessarily mean they intend to apply different legal standards.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

 

Now you two have got me thinking...what if Judge Berman does the following?

 

To Goodell: I'm going to rule in Brady's favor, since you have no concrete proof that he was culpable in the act of tampering. If you don't want me to vacate the entire suspension, get back in there and settle, and stop with the nonsense about making him admit guilt.

 

To Brady: I'm not wiping out this suspension, since obviously something was up based on the messages between those two maroons, and the fact that you abruptly destroyed your phone makes me not want to strike this down. If you don't want to miss 4 games, get back in there and settle, and stop with this full-exoneration nonsense.

He can't say that to Goodell because he has no jurisdiction on that actual case of deflating the balls. He can only rule on whether or not Goodell had the authority.

[5 Wide]

Goodell as the arbitrator is something was was collectively bargained for an explicitly included in the latest CBA. Impartial or not, he was granted authority by the NFLPA to act in the manner in which he did for the Deflategate ruling.

[Kelly the Dog]

Although, that is how Jerry Weintraub got all of those stars to all join Ocean's 13. He called up Brad Pitt and said "I've already got Clooney and Damon and Cheadle, you're the only one left. Then called up Clooney and said "I've already got Clooney and Damon and Cheadle, you're the only one left." Then called up Damon and said, "I've already got Clooney and Pitt and Cheadle..."

[Rocky Landing]

 

 

 

Now you two have got me thinking...what if Judge Berman does the following?

 

To Goodell: I'm going to rule in Brady's favor, since you have no concrete proof that he was culpable in the act of tampering. If you don't want me to vacate the entire suspension, get back in there and settle, and stop with the nonsense about making him admit guilt.

 

To Brady: I'm not wiping out this suspension, since obviously something was up based on the messages between those two maroons, and the fact that you abruptly destroyed your phone makes me not want to strike this down. If you don't want to miss 4 games, get back in there and settle, and stop with this full-exoneration nonsense.

 

He can't say that to Goodell because he has no jurisdiction on that actual case of deflating the balls. He can only rule on whether or not Goodell had the authority.

And, the standard of proof in arbitration, as well as civil litigation is a preponderance of evidence, hence Wells' language, "more likely than not."

[Kelly the Dog]

 

And, the standard of proof in arbitration, as well as civil litigation is a preponderance of evidence, hence Wells' language, "more likely than not."

AND the Ideal Gas Law and AEI reports of the science is garbage is all but shot to crap now.

[starrymessenger]

The latest on the courts: http://sports-law.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/another-home-field-advantage-for-tom.html

Odd then that Brady's advisors should have tried to institute the action in Minnesota when they would have been so better served in New York, and surprising too that the league's advisors should have sought New York rather than Minnesota. I guess the author is the only lawyer in the world who knows what he's doing. And far be it from me to suggest that Brady's attempt to have the case heard in Minnesota where a Minnesota judge said the matter had absolutely no legal, factual or logical connection, was a brazen example of jurisdiction shopping.

[thebandit27]

 

And, the standard of proof in arbitration, as well as civil litigation is a preponderance of evidence, hence Wells' language, "more likely than not."

 

Sure, I get that. I'm just playing around with scenarios.

 

I do appreciate the background you're providing.

[TheFunPolice]

What grounds does the judge have to vacate the suspension?

 

The union and the league signed a contract that stated that Gooddell would have the right to hear all appeals. This case is just an attempt to invalidate part of the CBA.

 

Is the judge really going to get into ideal gas laws and PSI readings?

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

Is the judge really going to get into ideal gas laws and PSI readings?

No. That is not what this is about at all. It's about whether or not Goodell should be the arbitrator and whether or not he was overly biased.

[starrymessenger]

What grounds does the judge have to vacate the suspension?

 

The union and the league signed a contract that stated that Gooddell would have the right to hear all appeals. This case is just an attempt to invalidate part of the CBA.

 

Is the judge really going to get into ideal gas laws and PSI readings?

The only substantive issue before the judge, as I understand it, is whether due process was observed. In order to succeed Brady must establish bias on the part of the Commissioner. That can happen even when the properly appointed arbitrator is an interested party, in other words it can happen whether the decision maker is an interested or a third party. That makes sense since any arbitrator, whether "interested" or not, can hypothetically be biased.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

I have a feeling we'll see a settlement now that the judge has asked for one. I can see why. He's either "the guy who let Goddell beat up on Brady" or "the guy who let Brady walk"

 

Two games, Brady doesn't cop to anything, the NFL says it was for not assisting with the investigation. Everyone saves some face and walks away a bit unhappy...the sign of a good compromise.

[Go Kiko go]

Goodell as the arbitrator is something was was collectively bargained for an explicitly included in the latest CBA. Impartial or not, he was granted authority by the NFLPA to act in the manner in which he did for the Deflategate ruling.

 

That's not the end of the inquiry.

 

A court "may make an order vacating [an arbitration] award upon the application of any party to the arbitration . . . where there was evident partiality or corruption in the arbitrators." 10 U.S.C. § 10(a)(2).

 

The mere fact that the parties chose a particular arbitrator through the collective bargaining process does not insulate the arbitrator from a charge of bias.

[Matt in KC]

I have a feeling we'll see a settlement now that the judge has asked for one. I can see why. He's either "the guy who let Goddell beat up on Brady" or "the guy who let Brady walk"

 

Two games, Brady doesn't cop to anything, the NFL says it was for not assisting with the investigation. Everyone saves some face and walks away a bit unhappy...the sign of a good compromise.

Brady's side has to give something up to get down to 2 games. It can't be reduced just because he sued.