OCinBuffalo Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/china-business/11766449/China-losing-control-as-stocks-crash-despite-emergency-measures.html I of course defer to the PPP Finance Jedi Coucil. However, this doesn't look just bad, this looks like downward spiral bad. The Chinese are losing control of the things they have tightly controlled ever since they abandoned Communism for whatever we call what they are doing now. The question seems to be: can we turn the tables on them, and start manipulating the dollar? I'm thinking about our $17 trillion debt here, and basic finance: the last thing a debtor wants is for the value of the currency he owes to increase. Or, inflation benefits debtors. If China goes down, what are our options? I don't want the value of our debt going up, and, I see an opportunity here. Therefore, my questions for the Jedi council are: 1. What do you guys make of all this? 2. What should we be doing? 3. Is it really possible that China's fundamentals were never strong enough to bear the manipulation/"encouragement to invest"/bubbles created? Are the fundamentals incapable of preventing a downward spiral, since so much of China is "shadow banks" and false, government coerced, never mind sponsored, contrivances? 4. Does #3 mean we are looking at China becoming a giant sinkhole, where the only way it makes sense to invest, is trying to unlock the rest of the money you already invested, and trying to get some back? How is that not throwing good $ after bad? Why would any investor, who isn't already there, look at China now? No matter what has been frozen, and how long China delays, sooner or later they are going have to let go, and what is stopping everyone from pulling out when they do? Thus, is a major depression in China inevitable? 5. Given mostly yes answers in #4, is it possible for something like: our Fed investment in Chinese equities, bailing them out, in return for 10x the dollar service of our debt, to be acceptable, and to work? 6. What other approaches do you guys have than towards this end? 7. Politically, does the money not matter as much as trying to use this to destroy the Communist government? And, hey, I'm sorry if this is busting any of the Jedi council's balls, in any way. That's not my intent. For the non-Jedi council members who want to participate: can we use this crisis to bail the Chinese stock markets out, in return for a sizable amount of our debt to them being cleared? Or, should we go the other way, see to it that their economy is destroyed, hope that the Communist party goes down with it, and then simply declare our debt to them void, since whatever the new government is has no claims on the old ones deals. Edited July 28, 2015 by OCinBuffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Who exactly is on the PPP Finance Jedi Coucil besides GG, Tom and gatorman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Simply put, prices of most things were overvalued and now the government of China is tampering with the markets with all these restrictions etc. in order to attempt to put more "order" in the markets and it's backfiring, spooking investors and they are bailing. Edited July 28, 2015 by Magox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Who exactly is on the PPP Finance Jedi Coucil besides GG, Tom and gatorman? I'm not part of the Jedi council. I'll offer opinions - 'cause that's what I do - but I defer to you and GG. I'm less a Jedi and more a Wedge Antilles. Gatorman...he's one of those (*^*&%^$^#Imperial Admirals that gets force-strangled by Darth Vader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Who exactly is on the PPP Finance Jedi Coucil besides GG, Tom and gatorman? Aren't you? Along with Magox, TPS, and with junior members being meazza, Chef and TTYT(and I know I'm forgetting one more senior member, at least). Wedge Antilles is hilarously accurate for DC_Tom. birdog is Princess Leia, all platitudes and drama, but doesn't do that much, and is mostly along for the ride. TTYT could also be a convincing Han Solo in this. Simply put, prices of most things were overvalued and now the government of China is tampering with the markets with all these restrictions etc. in order to attempt to put more "order" in the markets and it's backfiring, spooking investors and they are bailing. Yeah, I get that. Duh. Look, the first set of questions was for you, not the second. I want Jedi Finance lingo! Now! If I don't starting hearing it soon? If my questions don't get answered by the council? I'm gonna be who I am always am when I play Star Wars: Boba Fett. And then everybody gets a backpack rocket up the ass. Edited July 28, 2015 by OCinBuffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Who exactly is on the PPP Finance Jedi Coucil besides GG, Tom and gatorman? Talk about company you keep. But on the fundamental issue, China is getting a real-life lesson in market economics. The companies are not worth what the market thought they were worth, and no efforts by the government to prop up the values will work. Well, other than abandoning their soft version of communism. Nothing to do but sit on the sidelines and tell them, we told you so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Talk about company you keep. But on the fundamental issue, China is getting a real-life lesson in market economics. The companies are not worth what the market thought they were worth, and no efforts by the government to prop up the values will work. Well, other than abandoning their soft version of communism. Nothing to do but sit on the sidelines and tell them, we told you so. God DAMMIT! I don't want you to play Uncle Jesse on Dukes of Hazard. Get off your ass, and start Yoda being. Yoda what you are is. Can we do anything with this? Answer the damn questions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 God DAMMIT! I don't want you to play Uncle Jesse on Dukes of Hazard. Get off your ass, and start Yoda being. Yoda what you are is. Can we do anything with this? Answer the damn questions! So you're asking for investment advice from people you've never met who most likely don't care for you? Yeah, that's a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 God DAMMIT! I don't want you to play Uncle Jesse on Dukes of Hazard. Get off your ass, and start Yoda being. Yoda what you are is. Can we do anything with this? Answer the damn questions! Why would any sane investor buy Chinese stocks knowing that the accounting standards are non-existent, shareholder laws are loose and they haven't gone through a real market dislocation yet that tests priority of claims in mass bankruptcies? Yeah, if you want to speculate on market direction and don't care if your holdings suddenly get wiped out, then go ahead and ride it out. But this is not a game for the retail investor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Why would any sane investor buy Chinese stocks knowing that the accounting standards are non-existent, shareholder laws are loose and they haven't gone through a real market dislocation yet that tests priority of claims in mass bankruptcies? "When there's blood in the streets, buy." Works for me. With markets I know, at least. I don't know **** about China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Who exactly is on the PPP Finance Jedi Coucil besides GG, Tom and gatorman? I sense a plot to destroy the council from within Aren't you? Along with Magox, TPS, and with junior members being meazza, Chef and TTYT(and I know I'm forgetting one more senior member, at least). Wedge Antilles is hilarously accurate for DC_Tom. birdog is Princess Leia, all platitudes and drama, but doesn't do that much, and is mostly along for the ride. TTYT could also be a convincing Han Solo in this. Yeah, I get that. Duh. Look, the first set of questions was for you, not the second. I want Jedi Finance lingo! Now! If I don't starting hearing it soon? If my questions don't get answered by the council? I'm gonna be who I am always am when I play Star Wars: Boba Fett. And then everybody gets a backpack rocket up the ass. I took one of those "Which Star Wars Characters Are You" quizzes awhile back and printed out my results at work because it does kind of fit with the reputation I have: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts