SCD Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 I'm all for lifting his suspension providing that he is required to throw left handed for the entire season. With, or without deflated footballs?
Mr. WEO Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 It clearly wasn't a sting operation. I think trying to answer what that term means answers the question pretty quickly. The refs followed normal protocol and only took steps they could (halftime measurements etc. when then thought something might be wrong in that specific game. I think the league and referees hear a lot of whining/finger pointing all the time and only took these extra steps when at least 3 things came together: 1 - Proactive message teams had complained about ball pressure 2- Balls leaving referee monitoring/control before the game ("He's not supposed to do that") 3 - Specific complaint ("this ball is too soft"). Even with those, they curtailed the measurement (Colts balls) etc. to deliver their main product, the second half of the game, on time. And even if it was a "sting operation" so what? This is still the approved process for applying discipline that is deserved; the Pats just don't like it. When the patriots are again accused of cheating before an AFCC game the usual protocol is not to warn them? The usual protocol is not to go over to their sideline after you realize a team freshly accused by their current opponent of cheating has taken the balls soemwhere after you verified their pressure? This makes no sense at all. And how exactly did Jackson's INT ball go from a souvenir to be stuffed in a bag and given back to him after the game to a ball brought immediately by....someone...to the proper authorities prompting a sudden examination of all of the NE balls? As to why the "sting" is being discussed, you would have to go back and read more of these posts to get context. A sting is a distinct possiblity given these unusual circumstances (your dismissal of it is not convincing) and therefore Wells's veracity can be doubted. In the end, even that doesn't matter because he got 5 million to produce the document that Goodell wanted him to produce so he would have "independent" backup of his punishment of NE. He wanted no part of the blowback he got for hammering the Saints on Bountygate. I didn't say the idea that it was a sting was a stupid idea, I was referring to your harebrained idea that this was all a big conspiracy that the NFL planted and wanted and was good for business. The obvious answer is the easiest to believe. It was ten mlnutes before the championship game. Anderson was doing a lot of things. Actually the REASON that McNally was able to steal the balls was because Anderson left the officials room for a few minutes because he had extra duties. Then came back and they were missing but the game was starting soon so he went to the field and the game started. It just never occurred to him in that time they tool them to a bathroom. No sting. I said that the question of a sting was discussed before. You said it was stupid then as well. Then you went on to disparage my insightful notice of the NFl's masterful amnipulation of everyone since.
Kelly the Dog Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 If it was a sting the lead official and the NFL knowing let the Patriots, the team they are allegedly trying to catch because of the sacred integrity of the game, play a half of a Championship Game with altered balls, just to catch them with altered balls to save the integrity of the game. Nearly impossible IMO. When the patriots are again accused of cheating before an AFCC game the usual protocol is not to warn them? The usual protocol is not to go over to their sideline after you realize a team freshly accused by their current opponent of cheating has taken the balls soemwhere after you verified their pressure? This makes no sense at all. And how exactly did Jackson's INT ball go from a souvenir to be stuffed in a bag and given back to him after the game to a ball brought immediately by....someone...to the proper authorities prompting a sudden examination of all of the NE balls? As to why the "sting" is being discussed, you would have to go back and read more of these posts to get context. A sting is a distinct possiblity given these unusual circumstances (your dismissal of it is not convincing) and therefore Wells's veracity can be doubted. In the end, even that doesn't matter because he got 5 million to produce the document that Goodell wanted him to produce so he would have "independent" backup of his punishment of NE. He wanted no part of the blowback he got for hammering the Saints on Bountygate. I said that the question of a sting was discussed before. You said it was stupid then as well. Then you went on to disparage my insightful notice of the NFl's masterful amnipulation of everyone since. I was including your stupid conspiracy theory in it was discussed before. If anyone else posted it was a sting I wouldn't have included the stupid conspiracy issue to the word. I would have simply tried to discredit the idea because it doesn't make sense. See above.
Mr. WEO Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 If it was a sting the lead official and the NFL knowing let the Patriots, the team they are allegedly trying to catch because of the sacred integrity of the game, play a half of a Championship Game with altered balls, just to catch them with altered balls to save the integrity of the game. Nearly impossible IMO. I was including your stupid conspiracy theory in it was discussed before. If anyone else posted it was a sting I wouldn't have included the stupid conspiracy issue to the word. I would have simply tried to discredit the idea because it doesn't make sense. See above. We have both agreed that the altered balls had little effect on game outcome. I'm sure the league felt this was as well, as they did nothing about it when they first heard about it. Mine was not a "conspiracy" description. Just an observation as to how the NFL has played the public to its advantage once the cheating finally was documented. Pretty simple, really.
Kelly the Dog Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 We have both agreed that the altered balls had little effect on game outcome. I'm sure the league felt this was as well, as they did nothing about it when they first heard about it. Mine was not a "conspiracy" description. Just an observation as to how the NFL has played the public to its advantage once the cheating finally was documented. Pretty simple, really. They didn't and wouldn't know if it would have any affect on the game. Can you imagine the outrage if the Patriots were great in the first half and horrible in the second? That would have been a throwing the World Series scandal. People are so quick to alleged conspiracies and outrageous Keystone Cop blundering of the NFL on every level when the obvious easiest most sense reason is right in front of them. Does Goodell make asinine decisions sometimes? Hell yes. Does the NFL screw up sometimes? Of course. They also lord over the best run biggest money making machine in the history of sports and television. They are not going to let the Patriots play a Championship Game with altered balls just so they can catch them with altered balls. It's stupid.
Nanker Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 With, or without deflated footballs? To be fair, I'd let that be decided by the pre-game coin flip. The winner can choose to kick off, or receive. The loser can choose to let Brady*** play with regulation inflated balls or his usual girly-man soft balls.
NoSaint Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 It clearly wasn't a sting operation. I think trying to answer what that term means answers the question pretty quickly. The refs followed normal protocol and only took steps they could (halftime measurements etc. when then thought something might be wrong in that specific game. I think the league and referees hear a lot of whining/finger pointing all the time and only took these extra steps when at least 3 things came together: 1 - Proactive message teams had complained about ball pressure 2- Balls leaving referee monitoring/control before the game ("He's not supposed to do that") 3 - Specific complaint ("this ball is too soft"). Even with those, they curtailed the measurement (Colts balls) etc. to deliver their main product, the second half of the game, on time. And even if it was a "sting operation" so what? This is still the approved process for applying discipline that is deserved; the Pats just don't like it. If this is a huge violation though, why not take simple actions like a memo out of the gate, or an extra quick measurement of a couple balls after 1? If not 1, certainly 2? If you have a prior complaint AND the balls disappearing why not recheck then instead of waiting for a defensive player to complain if they happen to touch a ball and notice? Forget guilt here, but just simple logistics... The NFL flubbed a bit of the game day stuff, no? Especially if it's a violation that warrants a $5m investigation and heavy penalties, and high scrutiny.... What in the world was the league thinking?
Mr. WEO Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 If this is a huge violation though, why not take simple actions like a memo out of the gate, or an extra quick measurement of a couple balls after 1? If not 1, certainly 2? If you have a prior complaint AND the balls disappearing why not recheck then instead of waiting for a defensive player to complain if they happen to touch a ball and notice? Forget guilt here, but just simple logistics... The NFL flubbed a bit of the game day stuff, no? Especially if it's a violation that warrants a $5m investigation and heavy penalties, and high scrutiny.... What in the world was the league thinking? It's also just simple logic. If it wasn't worth looking into befrore a championship game, why is it such a big deal after ? Hoiw did the refs get Jackson's INT ball? ANd why--because an equipment manager could tell immediatley that the ball was 2 PSI below regulation? That's a stretcch.
Kelly the Dog Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 It's also just simple logic. If it wasn't worth looking into befrore a championship game, why is it such a big deal after ? Hoiw did the refs get Jackson's INT ball? ANd why--because an equipment manager could tell immediatley that the ball was 2 PSI below regulation? That's a stretcch. It's not that it wasn't worth looking into, it was a simple, single accusation from one team about another. From what I have read over the last 20-30 years this kind of stuff happens all the time and they wouldn't just assume it was true, nor make a big deal out of it. As far as the balls go, the equipment guys feel the balls all the time. Plus, Conan had Drew Brees on his show just after this happened. He gave Brees three balls and had him hold and squeeze them. Brees guessed their PSI pressure exactly right all three times, and they didn't give him three choices or anything, they just said what do you think this one is. It was also the second time the Colts noticed it so that would lend more credence.
Mr. WEO Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 It's not that it wasn't worth looking into, it was a simple, single accusation from one team about another. From what I have read over the last 20-30 years this kind of stuff happens all the time and they wouldn't just assume it was true, nor make a big deal out of it. As far as the balls go, the equipment guys feel the balls all the time. Plus, Conan had Drew Brees on his show just after this happened. He gave Brees three balls and had him hold and squeeze them. Brees guessed their PSI pressure exactly right all three times, and they didn't give him three choices or anything, they just said what do you think this one is. It was also the second time the Colts noticed it so that would lend more credence. So you say any old equipmnet manager has the ball pressure touch of a Drew Brees and one such guy immediately knew the ball was clearly underinflated (Jackson, a guy who handles a football at some point probably every day of the season, did not notice) and he immediately brought it to the attention of the authorities? And, despite the refs and the NFL being warned that the pats were going to deflate the balls for that game, and the fact that this IS the patriots, the NFL and the refs had no reason to suspect that this was anymore than good ol' traditional "gamesmanship" by the Colts? Something tells me you would have been far more suspcious in that circumstance than you claim the refs ought not have been....
Dan Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) So you say any old equipmnet manager has the ball pressure touch of a Drew Brees and one such guy immediately knew the ball was clearly underinflated (Jackson, a guy who handles a football at some point probably every day of the season, did not notice) and he immediately brought it to the attention of the authorities? And, despite the refs and the NFL being warned that the pats were going to deflate the balls for that game, and the fact that this IS the patriots, the NFL and the refs had no reason to suspect that this was anymore than good ol' traditional "gamesmanship" by the Colts? Something tells me you would have been far more suspcious in that circumstance than you claim the refs ought not have been.... None of this changes the fact that Brady and the team cheated. How the league found out? How they handled the discovery process? How much it did or did not affect a single game? Brady would have hidden evidence that would have incriminated himself; therefore, him not cooperating had no affect on the investigation (friggin brilliant logic there, btw)? None of that changes the simple facts that they cheated, they got caught, they did not cooperate fully with the investigation. You've gone so far beyond rational defense of Brady and his cheating ways that I'm pretty sure not even you knows what you're arguing for any more. Look they cheated. It worked. It got them to another Super Bowl. Now, they and their defenders need to just accept the modest punishment and move on to new ways of cheating. edit: So they deflated balls and got caught. Who cares how?Exactly. Edited July 23, 2015 by Dan
Andrew Son Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 So they deflated balls and got caught. Who cares how? /thread... please, untill there is an update
NoSaint Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 Come on ktd- you can't admit that the NFL has been poor at best in how they handled this at the start?
Mr. WEO Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) You've gone so far beyond rational defense of Brady and his cheating ways that I'm pretty sure not even you knows what you're arguing for any more. Exactly. No one here has said they weren't caught cheating. I'm pretty sure you don't know what "defending" means. As far as rational, you don't seem have a firm grasp on that either. Let people talk. I'm pretty sure I knows what I'm arguing... Edited July 23, 2015 by Mr. WEO
Fadingpain Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 77 Pages and they still haven't announced a verdict.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 77 Pages and they still haven't announced a verdict. Right? This has to be the longest appeal ever. I smell a rat.
SRQ_BillsFan Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 There is no way that it was a sting. If the game went into overtime this would truly be a bigger deal for the NFL. There is no chance they would ever let that happen. The ref didn't know who took the balls just that they were missing. He went out to the field and they were there. I am sure he expected someone from the NFL took them, not that they were stolen.
Mr. WEO Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 There is no way that it was a sting. If the game went into overtime this would truly be a bigger deal for the NFL. There is no chance they would ever let that happen. The ref didn't know who took the balls just that they were missing. He went out to the field and they were there. I am sure he expected someone from the NFL took them, not that they were stolen. So it never occured to him that they might have been tampered with? Yeah, I can buy that...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 Million$ question Mr WEO admits the Cheatriots broke the rules, including Brady** so the Million$ question IS why is he still arguing / trolling for responses??
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