BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 Refresh my memory. Are the 4 games on the books? He can't play? basically Can Brady** play if Roger doesn't decide before the season starts?
NoSaint Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 Refresh my memory. Are the 4 games on the books? He can't play? basically Can Brady** play if Roger doesn't decide before the season starts? Until appeal is finalized he can play. Without a doubt it will be finalized by week 1. If Brady files in court they may, or may not, grant him the ability to play pending result of the case (traditionally I believe they have ruled to let players play until final resolution as you can't get back games once lost)
Mr. WEO Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 You discussed it, and people reacted, but it was stupid then and stupid now. This is not great for the league. It doesn't hurt it much because 99% of fans rightfully only give a **** about the game's on the field. Not sure why the possibility is "stupid"--and I brought it up, but it was widely discussed outside of these walls. Wells's explanation makes little sense. Riiigghhtt--the League just loves having a major scandal envelope their SB champs during the entire offseason. That's just how Goodell and boys drew it up in Marketing 101..... This. Nothing like a cheating scandal that threatens the integrity of the game to boost ratings!. Plus, all of the arcane legal minutia to Brady's appeal is just a bonus to lock up the "legal profession demographic"-- icing on the cake! Good job, people!!! Yeah, I'm pretty sure you all saw that I said "given that this has happened" and that I am discussing what has happened since. But continue to have at it...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 Not sure why the possibility is "stupid"--and I brought it up, but it was widely discussed outside of these walls. Wells's explanation makes little sense. Yeah, I'm pretty sure you all saw that I said "given that this has happened" and that I am discussing what has happened since. But continue to have at it... What exactly makes little sense about "we investigated and asked a bunch of people a bunch of questions and afterwards found there was no reason whatsoever to believe there was a sting?"
K-9 Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 I think Wells knew the outcome before his investigation was complete. His claim that there was no element of a "sting" in this discovery of a deflated ball in the AFCC game is a bit dubious. His report achieved its goal for the NFL--to lend an air of "independence" to separate the Goodell from the outcome. The fact that Brady wouldn't fully cooperate (he answered all of Wells's questions in their interview) really put the cherry on top for Wells and the NFL. Was Brady in on the "sting" because he threw the INT that made it possible for Indy to have a Pats* ball checked by the ref? GO BILLS!!!
Mr. WEO Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 What exactly makes little sense about "we investigated and asked a bunch of people a bunch of questions and afterwards found there was no reason whatsoever to believe there was a sting?" That's not what he said. This was posted here in the past. This same Colts team had brought up complaints of suspected ball deflation with the league prior to this game. This is Wells explanation: "When the Colts made the complaint, no one at the league office took the complaint seriously," Wells said during a conference call. "[The NFL] flipped the complaint by email to the operations people so they knew about it. They told the refs. [Referee] Walt Anderson thought it was just a normal complaint. You get these types of things all the time. Nobody paid that much attention to it" So he says on the one hand, the NFL really didn't pay much attention to the complaints of deflated balls (happens all the time!)...until they suddenly were very attentive in the AFCC game. This story kind of strains Wells's credibility. It's weak. Instead of contacting the patriots before the game to tell them to knock it off and instead of checking the pressure of the NE balls before kickoff, they did nothing......until that ball lands in Dquell Jackson's (who said he felt nothing unusual about the balls) hand. Jackson claims he handed it off to an equipment manager as a souvenir, yet it somehow ended up immediately becoming exhibit A... All this adding up to some sort of sting is hardly a stupid idea. Wells's attempt to blow off the question was more witless... Was Brady in on the "sting" because he threw the INT that made it possible for Indy to have a Pats* ball checked by the ref? GO BILLS!!! The balls were handled by the refs many times in that game prior to the INT.
K-9 Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 That's not what he said. This was posted here in the past. This same Colts team had brought up complaints of suspected ball deflation with the league prior to this game. This is Wells explanation: So he says on the one hand, the NFL really didn't pay much attention to the complaints of deflated balls (happens all the time!)...until they suddenly were very attentive in the AFCC game. This story kind of strains Wells's credibility. It's weak. Instead of contacting the patriots before the game to tell them to knock it off and instead of checking the pressure of the NE balls before kickoff, they did nothing......until that ball lands in Dquell Jackson's (who said he felt nothing unusual about the balls) hand. Jackson claims he handed it off to an equipment manager as a souvenir, yet it somehow ended up immediately becoming exhibit A... All this adding up to some sort of sting is hardly a stupid idea. Wells's attempt to blow off the question was more witless... The balls were handled by the refs many times in that game prior to the INT. So the refs justed waited for the INT and for the Colts to make the formal request to check the air pressure? Right. What if Tommy Boy hadn't been so accommodating? Then whàt? Delay the sting operation? So the Colts went on record as saying they suspected a problem beforehand. So what? At least that kind of gamesmanship is within the rules, like pinetar on a bat or the curvature of a hockey stick. But that makes them wrong and NE* the victim? An organization previously convicted of cheating gets your benefit of the doubt? NE*. That is true dedication. GO BILLS!!!
Kelly the Dog Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) That's not what he said. This was posted here in the past. This same Colts team had brought up complaints of suspected ball deflation with the league prior to this game. This is Wells explanation: So he says on the one hand, the NFL really didn't pay much attention to the complaints of deflated balls (happens all the time!)...until they suddenly were very attentive in the AFCC game. This story kind of strains Wells's credibility. It's weak. Instead of contacting the patriots before the game to tell them to knock it off and instead of checking the pressure of the NE balls before kickoff, they did nothing......until that ball lands in Dquell Jackson's (who said he felt nothing unusual about the balls) hand. Jackson claims he handed it off to an equipment manager as a souvenir, yet it somehow ended up immediately becoming exhibit A... All this adding up to some sort of sting is hardly a stupid idea. Wells's attempt to blow off the question was more witless... The balls were handled by the refs many times in that game prior to the INT. Of course they checked the pressure on the balls before the game. Each one, like they always do. They even put some air into a couple. That's the whole basis for Deflategate. What are you talking about? Edited July 22, 2015 by Kelly the Dog
K-9 Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 Of course they checked the pressure on the balls before the game. Each one, like they always do. They even put some air into a couple. That's the whole basis for Deflategate. What are you talking about? He is talking about NE* being the poor, unwitting victim of a conspiracy to catch them in a sting operation. GO BILLS!!!
NoSaint Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 So the refs justed waited for the INT and for the Colts to make the formal request to check the air pressure? Right. What if Tommy Boy hadn't been so accommodating? Then whàt? Delay the sting operation? So the Colts went on record as saying they suspected a problem beforehand. So what? At least that kind of gamesmanship is within the rules, like pinetar on a bat or the curvature of a hockey stick. But that makes them wrong and NE* the victim? An organization previously convicted of cheating gets your benefit of the doubt? NE*. That is true dedication. GO BILLS!!! maybe they were going to check at halftime? the alternative is they had reports prior and decided "meh, who cares, we arent going to check at all" until the colts forced them. either is a bit of a mess.
Reed83HOF Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 He is talking about NE* being the poor, unwitting victim of a conspiracy to catch them in a sting operation. GO BILLS!!! Shouldn't have cheated in the first place then... Only people who complain about a sting operations are the ones who get cawt. Oh well!
dwight in philly Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 too long of a thread to see if i missed anything , but if they give in to brady, IMHO, the league loses cred.. screw the threats of the NFLPA, do what is right, keep the integrity of the game. again, just my opinion.
Kelly the Dog Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 maybe they were going to check at halftime? the alternative is they had reports prior and decided "meh, who cares, we arent going to check at all" until the colts forced them. either is a bit of a mess. They checked all 12 balls for pressure like they do every game. The Pats told Anderson they wanted them all at 12.5. He measured them all, and added a little air to a couple to make them all 12.5 I don't know what people are talking about. After they checked them, McNally stole them.
NoSaint Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 They checked all 12 balls for pressure like they do every game. The Pats told Anderson they wanted them all at 12.5. He measured them all, and added a little air to a couple to make them all 12.5 I don't know what people are talking about. After they checked them, McNally stole them. I'll be honest, I thought I was clear but I didn't read all the proceeding posts so maybe something threw off the interpretation.... In response to "if it was a sting why'd it take an interception to set the wheels" I was saying that maybe there was a planned second check scheduled.... The alternative being they had received complaints and didn't care enough to plan to check. Neither reflects great on the league.
K-9 Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 ...After they checked them, McNally stole them. Which is why Brady had to throw the INT to create the pretense for the Colts to ask for the balls to be checked again. This was a well-oiled sting operation and Tommy, like Newman and Redford, played his part perfectly. GO BILLS!!!
Mr. WEO Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 So the refs justed waited for the INT and for the Colts to make the formal request to check the air pressure? Right. What if Tommy Boy hadn't been so accommodating? Then whàt? Delay the sting operation? So the Colts went on record as saying they suspected a problem beforehand. So what? At least that kind of gamesmanship is within the rules, like pinetar on a bat or the curvature of a hockey stick. But that makes them wrong and NE* the victim? An organization previously convicted of cheating gets your benefit of the doubt? NE*. That is true dedication. GO BILLS!!! It's not about victimhood or the benefit of the doubt. There are no victims in this. The point of all the talk of a "sting" is that the league again heard the complaint from the Colts the day before and didn't seem to care about deflated balls. I'm saying that Wells's explanation doesn't make sense. Of course they checked the pressure on the balls before the game. Each one, like they always do. They even put some air into a couple. That's the whole basis for Deflategate. What are you talking about? You're kidding right? I said before kickoff--you know, after ol Walt lost track of the balls and after the deflator went to work. That's what's being discussed here.
Kelly the Dog Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 It's not about victimhood or the benefit of the doubt. There are no victims in this. The point of all the talk of a "sting" is that the league again heard the complaint from the Colts the day before and didn't seem to care about deflated balls. I'm saying that Wells's explanation doesn't make sense. You're kidding right? I said before kickoff--you know, after ol Walt lost track of the balls and after the deflator went to work. That's what's being discussed here. Because they didn't expect the Patriots to actually take them into a bathroom and alter them. Anderson didn't know anything about that. There was no sting or no expectation of any real wrongdoing. McNally sometimes asks the Refs if it is okay for him to take the balls to the field and they sometimes allow it if another Ref is there. But this time he just took them and Anderson yelled "He's not supposed to do that." But there was no suggestion or worry of any big conspiracy at that point.
3rdand12 Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 Which is why Brady had to throw the INT to create the pretense for the Colts to ask for the balls to be checked again. This was a well-oiled sting operation and Tommy, like Newman and Redford, played his part perfectly. GO BILLS!!! Nice reference K-9 classic maybe time for a rewatch next long weekend Goodell is really in a spot here. Considering all these high profile cases, and then comparing them to well, cheating.
JohnC Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 Because they didn't expect the Patriots to actually take them into a bathroom and alter them. Anderson didn't know anything about that. There was no sting or no expectation of any real wrongdoing. McNally sometimes asks the Refs if it is okay for him to take the balls to the field and they sometimes allow it if another Ref is there. But this time he just took them and Anderson yelled "He's not supposed to do that." But there was no suggestion or worry of any big conspiracy at that point. Why do you think that Goodell hasn't made a ruling on the appeal yet? He already knows that the NFLPA is going to challenge any suspension. What is the point of delaying a ruling? What new information is there to be had? Regardless what side of the issue one is on this delay is baffling, at least to me it is. If it gets to a court or arbitrator the league is going to be asked what were the PSIs of ball #1 #2 #3 etc when the game started. The league's response is we don't know because we didn't record it. Then they are going to be asked what air gauge was used on each particular ball because different gauges give different readings. Their response is we don't know because we didn't note it. This saga is turning out to be a fiasco.
NoSaint Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) Because they didn't expect the Patriots to actually take them into a bathroom and alter them. Anderson didn't know anything about that. There was no sting or no expectation of any real wrongdoing. McNally sometimes asks the Refs if it is okay for him to take the balls to the field and they sometimes allow it if another Ref is there. But this time he just took them and Anderson yelled "He's not supposed to do that." But there was no suggestion or worry of any big conspiracy at that point.They were alerted to the issue before the game. You'd think the nfl would have issued a warning to teams and then planned a quick double check at some point if they were actually concerned. You'd also think if it was obvious by touch and the nfl had known before the refs would've been on the look out on 100% of the plays they touched the balls; not waiting for a colts defender to complain. It's just a matter of it seeming to be a big deal in how the NFL punished, and a non issue in how they addressed it in advance, that people are bringing up. No ones arguing deflation didn't happen with this just that the NFL was less than stellar. Edited July 23, 2015 by NoSaint
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