Doc Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 A great question doc. I don't know. I think he doesn't want to participate in any self-incrimination. He's already staked himself to absolute innocence, so he's not changing course. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Exactly. Which no one on Earth actually believes except for Brady Scientologists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Logistically, had Brady simply said he deletes his texts- Is this something AT&T would even supply someone with without a court order? Like if I call them right now, they won't provide me 2 year old texts, right? So if Brady said "I never participated in such a scheme and don't even have texts saved" it'd be a bit of a wall for an employer investigation... No? Additionally, earlier you said it was more reasonable that wells was demanding with teeth behind it but did we for sure hash out an employers rights demanding that? Could that be why it's been presented as the very simple "all we did was ask him and I'd have accepted anything" instead of "I told him he must turn in x y and a or face penalty" ? I know we chased the question around months ago but don't recall at the moment if we settled how far the nfl could reasonably demand vs politely request Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Logistically, had Brady simply said he deletes his texts- Is this something AT&T would even supply someone with without a court order? Like if I call them right now, they won't provide me 2 year old texts, right? So if Brady said "I never participated in such a scheme and don't even have texts saved" it'd be a bit of a wall for an employer investigation... No? Additionally, earlier you said it was more reasonable that wells was demanding with teeth behind it but did we for sure hash out an employers rights demanding that? Could that be why it's been presented as the very simple "all we did was ask him and I'd have accepted anything" instead of "I told him he must turn in x y and a or face penalty" ? I know we chased the question around months ago but don't recall at the moment if we settled how far the nfl could reasonably demand vs politely request This is my question. Sounds like Wells is saying that any level of evidence handed over would have sufficed (as it is, he concluded likely guilt without Brady's evidence, so Brady's noncompliance played not factor in Well's final determination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) This is my question. Sounds like Wells is saying that any level of evidence handed over would have sufficed (as it is, he concluded likely guilt without Brady's evidence, so Brady's noncompliance played not factor in Well's final determination. Of course it surely added to Wells' belief in the fact he was guilty. Why would a completely innocent man, who had absolutely zero part and knows zero about any wrongdoing whatsoever not comply. Of course that was a factor. He didn't need it because Brady's prints both real and logical were all over it. But I'm sure that added to the final conclusion. As I've stated many times before, if you think Brady is innocent as he says, and go into this believing that, nothing makes any sense. But if you think or go into it believing he knew, every single thing makes total sense. Edited July 22, 2015 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Of course it surely added to Wells' belief in the fact he was guilty. Why would a completely innocent man, who had absolutely zero part and knows zero about any wrongdoing whatsoever not comply. Of course that was a factor. He didn't need it because Brady's prints both real and logical were all over it. But I'm sure that added to the final conclusion. As I've stated many times before, if you think Brady is innocent as he says, and go into this believing that, nothing makes any sense. But if you think or go into it believing he knew, every single thing makes total sense. I don't think anyone in this discussion believes he's innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I don't think anyone in this discussion believes he's innocent. Understood. The point is there are numerous elements that make rational people put two and two and two and two and two together and get guilty. That is one of the bigger ones for a lot of people (not myself) because it's easy to imagine that an innocent person wouldn't do that and a guilty person would. When Wells is forming his conclusion that part weighs, along with all the other ones. Without it he would have likely come to the same conclusion but it's a factor and perhaps a big one. But it's circumstantial evidence. The more of those kinds of things there are, the more impossible it becomes to believe anything else. If there were only two it would be hard. If there were only five it would be easier but not definitive. Because there are more than ten it increasingly makes it impossible to believe. So it's a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Understood. The point is there are numerous elements that make rational people put two and two and two and two and two together and get guilty. That is one of the bigger ones for a lot of people (not myself) because it's easy to imagine that an innocent person wouldn't do that and a guilty person would. When Wells is forming his conclusion that part weighs, along with all the other ones. Without it he would have likely come to the same conclusion but it's a factor and perhaps a big one. But it's circumstantial evidence. The more of those kinds of things there are, the more impossible it becomes to believe anything else. If there were only two it would be hard. If there were only five it would be easier but not definitive. Because there are more than ten it increasingly makes it impossible to believe. So it's a factor. I think Wells knew the outcome before his investigation was complete. His claim that there was no element of a "sting" in this discovery of a deflated ball in the AFCC game is a bit dubious. His report achieved its goal for the NFL--to lend an air of "independence" to separate the Goodell from the outcome. The fact that Brady wouldn't fully cooperate (he answered all of Wells's questions in their interview) really put the cherry on top for Wells and the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share Posted July 22, 2015 Yawn. When the frick is this decision coming down already. Let's goooo Roger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I think Wells knew the outcome before his investigation was complete. His claim that there was no element of a "sting" in this discovery of a deflated ball in the AFCC game is a bit dubious. His report achieved its goal for the NFL--to lend an air of "independence" to separate the Goodell from the outcome. The fact that Brady wouldn't fully cooperate (he answered all of Wells's questions in their interview) really put the cherry on top for Wells and the NFL. It's somewhat difficult to imagine a sting where they don't register the readings before the game but just use the normal procedure, as well as let the Patriots play with altered balls for a Championship Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 It's somewhat difficult to imagine a sting where they don't register the readings before the game but just use the normal procedure, as well as let the Patriots play with altered balls for a Championship Game. This was discussed pages ago. The league was aware before that game. They weren't very alarmed about it--until halftime at that game. Given that all this happened, the way it all went down couldn't have worked out better for the NFL. They make the "discovery" of deflated balls at halftime, yet NE is able to come back and win both the AFCC game and the SB without the "aid" of deflated balls, thus letting the NFL imply that the deflation had little impact on play. Then after it all ends in a wild SB seen by more humans than anything ever on TV, the NFL get to enjoy hogging the headlines for months before and after the draft--usually fairly dead times. Then they get to hire their favorite lawyer as an independent examiner who will deliver the exact report Goodell needs to buffer him from Kraft and the patriots (and another bounty gate fiasco). Goodell then delivers the inevitable blow, leaving Brady to threaten legal action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 This was discussed pages ago. The league was aware before that game. They weren't very alarmed about it--until halftime at that game. Given that all this happened, the way it all went down couldn't have worked out better for the NFL. They make the "discovery" of deflated balls at halftime, yet NE is able to come back and win both the AFCC game and the SB without the "aid" of deflated balls, thus letting the NFL imply that the deflation had little impact on play. Then after it all ends in a wild SB seen by more humans than anything ever on TV, the NFL get to enjoy hogging the headlines for months before and after the draft--usually fairly dead times. Then they get to hire their favorite lawyer as an independent examiner who will deliver the exact report Goodell needs to buffer him from Kraft and the patriots (and another bounty gate fiasco). Goodell then delivers the inevitable blow, leaving Brady to threaten legal action. You discussed it, and people reacted, but it was stupid then and stupid now. This is not great for the league. It doesn't hurt it much because 99% of fans rightfully only give a **** about the game's on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Goodell says no timeline for Brady appeal. Well how about before the season starts, you twit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 This was discussed pages ago. The league was aware before that game. They weren't very alarmed about it--until halftime at that game. Given that all this happened, the way it all went down couldn't have worked out better for the NFL. They make the "discovery" of deflated balls at halftime, yet NE is able to come back and win both the AFCC game and the SB without the "aid" of deflated balls, thus letting the NFL imply that the deflation had little impact on play. Then after it all ends in a wild SB seen by more humans than anything ever on TV, the NFL get to enjoy hogging the headlines for months before and after the draft--usually fairly dead times. Then they get to hire their favorite lawyer as an independent examiner who will deliver the exact report Goodell needs to buffer him from Kraft and the patriots (and another bounty gate fiasco). Goodell then delivers the inevitable blow, leaving Brady to threaten legal action. Riiigghhtt--the League just loves having a major scandal envelope their SB champs during the entire offseason. That's just how Goodell and boys drew it up in Marketing 101..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Riiigghhtt--the League just loves having a major scandal envelope their SB champs during the entire offseason. That's just how Goodell and boys drew it up in Marketing 101..... This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) Riiigghhtt--the League just loves having a major scandal envelope their SB champs during the entire offseason. That's just how Goodell and boys drew it up in Marketing 101..... Nothing like a cheating scandal that threatens the integrity of the game to boost ratings!. Plus, all of the arcane legal minutia to Brady's appeal is just a bonus to lock up the "legal profession demographic"-- icing on the cake! Good job, people!!! Edited July 22, 2015 by Rocky Landing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Question for all!! Does anyone else think that when Brady retires, so will BB? CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Goodell says no timeline for Brady appeal. Well how about before the season starts, you twit? It's getting a little obnoxious, at this point. I think it's pretty obvious that Goodell know what he wants to do. Is he just afraid of the inevitable sh**storm that WILL occur-- regardless of the decision? C'mon, Goodell! Get yr balls out of granny's purse!!! Question for all!! Does anyone else think that when Brady retires, so will BB? CBF No. In the year that Brady blew his knee out in the first game, BB and the Pats* still had a good season. And that was with some no-name backup QB. I don't even remember his name... Matt something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Son Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 It's getting a little obnoxious, at this point. I think it's pretty obvious that Goodell know what he wants to do. Is he just afraid of the inevitable sh**storm that WILL occur-- regardless of the decision? C'mon, Goodell! Get yr balls out of granny's purse!!! No. In the year that Brady blew his knee out in the first game, BB and the Pats* still had a good season. And that was with some no-name backup QB. I don't even remember his name... Matt something... Yeah, I think you're right... But if I remember correctly that no name QB made the pro bowl a year or two after Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Roger is waiting as long as possible so that Brady's legal case takes up the entire season and doesn't end before the playoffs are over. That way, Roger looks like a tough guy who stuck to his guns and Brady doesn't miss a game. Win-win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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