Mr. WEO Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Big game of chicken going on right here. No, it's not really--unless you think Goodell is at all thinking of no suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I'm curious how the NFLPA can file on Brady's behalf when he was the one who denied their representation in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 How would he call the bluff? He's going to give him some length of suspension anyway. The bluff is Rog removing the suspension in order to avoid a lawsuit. Which is the purpose of the threat of a lawsuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 The bluff is Rog removing the suspension in order to avoid a lawsuit. Which is the purpose of the threat of a lawsuit. No one believes he's gonig to remove the suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Invictus Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Can we all just agree that Tom Brady is pretty much the biggest douch to walk on the face of the earth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 No one believes he's gonig to remove the suspension. I think a ton of people do. I also think they're nuts but a lot of people think he will get no games, Goodell will cave, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 No one believes he's gonig to remove the suspension. Belief has nothing to do with anything. The union said they'll go to court if Rog doesn't vacate the entire suspension. So it's either no games or they sue. Hence I said "call their bluff." Pretty simple concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Any suspension given is going to be challenged in court. There is not going to be a quick resolution of the issue if that happens. If the league was confident that there wasn't gong to be a challenge to their followup ruling whatever it is (maintaining the four game suspension or even lessening the suspension} it would have already made its determination public. My position on this issue is obvious to most. It is a minority view. The issue for me is less about Brady and the condition of the balls and mostly about the erratic and political way in which Goodell manages his disciplinary responsibilities. The most egregiously inequitable behavior Goodell has exhibited was with New Orleans in the exaggerated bounty case. He not only damaged the careers of the obnoxious DC (Williams) and the HC (Payton) but he also sabotaged the season for the franchise. It was done not becasue the situation was investigated with fairness and common sense but it was done so that the commissioner wouldn't look bad. Again, for me the core issue isn't about this "inflation" issue; it is the extent to which the disciplinary process is corrupted by the commissioner who is the authority in that office. The New Orleans case has no bearing, as in NONE, on the Brady case. Damaged the careers of Williams and Peyton? Sounds serious. Why haven't they brought a case for such damages? You're right about one thing though; it isn't about air pressure in footballs. It's about a pattern of behavior exhibited by an organization previously found guilty of rules infractions and non-cooperation in a league investigation. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 The New Orleans case has no bearing, as in NONE, on the Brady case. Damaged the careers of Williams and Peyton? Sounds serious. Why haven't they brought a case for such damages? You're right about one thing though; it isn't about air pressure in footballs. It's about a pattern of behavior exhibited by an organization previously found guilty of rules infractions and non-cooperation in a league investigation. GO BILLS!!! The New Orleans case does demonstrate how an issue that could have been handled in a wiser way got blown out of proportion because the person adjudicating the case was more concerned with how he was perceived than with the totality of the situation. Vilma was punished over the New Orleans situation and he challenged the commissioner and his ruling. He won. Payton and Williams didn't legally challenge the league for fear that they would jeopardize their futures in the NFL. They made the calculation that it was better for them to take the hit and then get back in the game. I understand their reasoning and choice not to pursue the case. This saga is not going to be over when Goodell makes his ruling which should be very soon. In all probability he is going to keep the punishment as it is or reduce it. Then there will be a sequel legal challenge that will go to an outside authority. In that more neutral setting I believe (as opposed to most others) that Brady is in a better position to make his case and win against Goodell who has a history of losing cases when outside eyes examine the same facts that he has made his rulings on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmasThoman Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Yep. The same people calling him cheater already will be pissed but the machine will grind on. By week 1 it'll be a footnote. This right here is wrong. I've heard it a bunch this offseason, and I'm telling you right now: it's wrong. The NFL is walking an extremely fine line right now, between imploding like the post-Jordan NBA, or the post-1994-strike-MLB, or the post-second-NHL-lockout, or the first Masters sans Tiger since 97, or any other example or sporting league that begins to decline when it goes from being infallible to looking really stupid in the court of public opinion. I repeat: this is the NFL's tipping point. You have an organization that has been punished for cheating after its other championships that just won a fourth title, and their marquee player was immediately deemed a cheater and suspended by the league for a quarter of the season. I'm sorry, but you can't backpeddle from that and say "its no big deal." I've said this before, I'll say it now, I'll say it 100 times--the NFL should strip the Patriots of their title, and ban Brady and Beliceck for life. Fight the lawsuit in court for the next 15 years if you want, and maybe eventually let them both into the hall, but as radical as that may seem, the alternative is far, FAR worse. And that alternative? Living in a world where the NFL has lost its legitimacy. Because they are one reduced suspension away from that happening. And BELIEVE ME--the NBA is sitting very very very pretty right now. Steph Curry is about to be the biggest, most marketable athlete in North America, the NBA has a progressive commissioner, and they have about 8 teams that are GOOD and fun to watch. This isn't even coming from "a Bills fan". This is me speaking as a life long football fan. Goodell is absolutely about to make the biggest ruling of his life. I'll tell you right now, if he caves and eliminates this suspension, theyre going to have a very hard time continuing to sell their sport as "the ultimate battle of gladiators on a field of combat, playing in a holy game that is as important as any sporting event that has ever been held", when they let their f*cking champions CHEAT their way to the top, and then are too scared to dole out punishment because they might get taken to court. Point blank: Roger--if you can't control your league, why should I PAY to watch it? And if the owners are too dumb to remove him from his post, why should I be invested in their decisions in hiring coaches and GMS? it's just one big game of turning a profit. Well, I don't watch sports to help owners turn a profit, I watch sports because theyre fun. The NFL is becoming not-fun through this process. Deflategate will absolutely change the future of the NFL. For the worse, if handled wrong. I'd stake my life on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I think a ton of people do. I also think they're nuts but a lot of people think he will get no games, Goodell will cave, etc. Obviously doc is among them. Belief has nothing to do with anything. The union said they'll go to court if Rog doesn't vacate the entire suspension. So it's either no games or they sue. Hence I said "call their bluff." Pretty simple concept. This right here is wrong. I've heard it a bunch this offseason, and I'm telling you right now: it's wrong. The NFL is walking an extremely fine line right now, between imploding like the post-Jordan NBA, or the post-1994-strike-MLB, or the post-second-NHL-lockout, or the first Masters sans Tiger since 97, or any other example or sporting league that begins to decline when it goes from being infallible to looking really stupid in the court of public opinion. I repeat: this is the NFL's tipping point. You have an organization that has been punished for cheating after its other championships that just won a fourth title, and their marquee player was immediately deemed a cheater and suspended by the league for a quarter of the season. I'm sorry, but you can't backpeddle from that and say "its no big deal." I've said this before, I'll say it now, I'll say it 100 times--the NFL should strip the Patriots of their title, and ban Brady and Beliceck for life. Fight the lawsuit in court for the next 15 years if you want, and maybe eventually let them both into the hall, but as radical as that may seem, the alternative is far, FAR worse. And that alternative? Living in a world where the NFL has lost its legitimacy. Because they are one reduced suspension away from that happening. And BELIEVE ME--the NBA is sitting very very very pretty right now. Steph Curry is about to be the biggest, most marketable athlete in North America, the NBA has a progressive commissioner, and they have about 8 teams that are GOOD and fun to watch. This isn't even coming from "a Bills fan". This is me speaking as a life long football fan. Goodell is absolutely about to make the biggest ruling of his life. I'll tell you right now, if he caves and eliminates this suspension, theyre going to have a very hard time continuing to sell their sport as "the ultimate battle of gladiators on a field of combat, playing in a holy game that is as important as any sporting event that has ever been held", when they let their f*cking champions CHEAT their way to the top, and then are too scared to dole out punishment because they might get taken to court. Point blank: Roger--if you can't control your league, why should I PAY to watch it? And if the owners are too dumb to remove him from his post, why should I be invested in their decisions in hiring coaches and GMS? it's just one big game of turning a profit. Well, I don't watch sports to help owners turn a profit, I watch sports because theyre fun. The NFL is becoming not-fun through this process. Deflategate will absolutely change the future of the NFL. For the worse, if handled wrong. I'd stake my life on it. Oh man....! Always a pleasure when Johnny stops by Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 The New Orleans case does demonstrate how an issue that could have been handled in a wiser way got blown out of proportion because the person adjudicating the case was more concerned with how he was perceived than with the totality of the situation. Vilma was punished over the New Orleans situation and he challenged the commissioner and his ruling. He won. Payton and Williams didn't legally challenge the league for fear that they would jeopardize their futures in the NFL. They made the calculation that it was better for them to take the hit and then get back in the game. I understand their reasoning and choice not to pursue the case. This saga is not going to be over when Goodell makes his ruling which should be very soon. In all probability he is going to keep the punishment as it is or reduce it. Then there will be a sequel legal challenge that will go to an outside authority. In that more neutral setting I believe (as opposed to most others) that Brady is in a better position to make his case and win against Goodell who has a history of losing cases when outside eyes examine the same facts that he has made his rulings on. That's all well and good about Vilma, Williams, and Peyton but the fact remains it has NO bearing on anything. Please tell me how Goodell could have handled the Patriots* case in a "wiser way." As has been mentioned numerous times, he is well within the scope of his authority which was granted him by the NFLPA. If the question is what is the "appropriate" punishment for refusing to cooperate in a league investigation, I think he is the sole arbiter in that regard as well. I get why the NFLPA threatens a suit, though. With any luck, we'll see it happen. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Very wide right Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 This is why I think all game suspensions should be served at the end of the season - including the playoffs. Thats a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Obviously doc is among them. LOL! No, I neither think nor believe Tommy Boy will get no games. But again as I said, belief doesn't mean jack. The union is saying to Rog "we'll sue if you dare to suspend him for even one game." It's a bluff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmasThoman Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) Obviously doc is among them. Oh man....! Always a pleasure when Johnny stops by Laugh now man. The NFL is an absolute train wreck--players can't hit the off switch when they leave the field, and beat the hell out of women and children. This has always happened, but now with social media, it's in our face every week. They are concussed to the point that the league is about to disallow defense. The commissioner is viewed as a joke, and he's about to vacate a suspension for the league's golden boy, (who plays for an organization that just won ANOTHER championship by cheating) because he's either in bed with Kraft, or scared of Patriots fans reactions. The NBA just had its highest rated finals since Jordan was playing, and have a commissioner that isn't a bottom boy like you posters on here, and literally forced the sale of one of his teams because the owner left a "racist voice mail". Imagine that scenario happening in the NFL. Lol. The league is f*cked man, it's absolutely going to be an afterthought in the American sporting landscape within 15 years. I am genuinely surprised that the NFL owners don't have someone with more business savy running their multi billion dollar organization... Goodell isn't just in over his head, he has drowned--theyre just letting his bloated, floating corpse continue to make decisions--and he's acting accordingly lol. Edited July 15, 2015 by JohnnyGold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmasThoman Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Obviously doc is among them. Oh man....! Always a pleasure when Johnny stops by And let me just add.... I don't know jack diddly about football. The game on the field. I mean, I do, from 30 years of watching it, but it's not like I can watch a stud collegiate linebacker and tell you how his skillset will translate to the pros. I've never played fantasy football, I don't know if the Eagles 3rd string running back is worth sitting or starting week 3. I can't really criticize coaches, because quite frankly, I don't know the plays they are running. It is a hobby to me, a fun hobby, yes, but a hobby none the less. I do, however, have knowledge of other things in life, one of which being the behavioral patterns of consumers, specifically as it relates to "consumer confidence". The NFL is willingly punishing the fanbases of 31 teams, to the bennefit of one owner, and his domineering relationship with the commissioner. The American viewing consumer has waaaaaaay too many options to be beholden to a league that can't inspire legitimacy. It may not seem like much, but public opinion is like nuclear fusion--it reaches critical mass and then it's explosive. I'm not necessarily propping up the NBA, or trying to advance that agenda, but do know that that sport is positioned VERY well right now, and its marketing push seems diametrically opposed to the NFL--hell, the pregame routine for the NBA finals took about 3 minutes. The NFL blocks out an hour--or maybe 2 weeks, if you watch all the pregame shows. The NFL has attempted to create an aura of infallibility, and moral superiority, but refuses to apply that standard to their very good looking, very successful, very white posterboy. Considering white America is not letting their kids play football anymore, Roger is going to need that minority sector to staff his league in 10 years. He should be careful how he sells it today. Suspending black players for a year based on allegations/not letting due process play out, and then letting Tommy Golden Boy walk because he threatens a law suit? Ehhhhh, whatever man, don't say I didn't warn you. Somebody should warn Terry though, because I'm sure that asset is going to depreciate over the next 15-20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 And let me just add.... I don't know jack diddly about football. The game on the field. I mean, I do, from 30 years of watching it, but it's not like I can watch a stud collegiate linebacker and tell you how his skillset will translate to the pros. I've never played fantasy football, I don't know if the Eagles 3rd string running back is worth sitting or starting week 3. I can't really criticize coaches, because quite frankly, I don't know the plays they are running. It is a hobby to me, a fun hobby, yes, but a hobby none the less. I do, however, have knowledge of other things in life, one of which being the behavioral patterns of consumers, specifically as it relates to "consumer confidence". The NFL is willingly punishing the fanbases of 31 teams, to the bennefit of one owner, and his domineering relationship with the commissioner. The American viewing consumer has waaaaaaay too many options to be beholden to a league that can't inspire legitimacy. It may not seem like much, but public opinion is like nuclear fusion--it reaches critical mass and then it's explosive. I'm not necessarily propping up the NBA, or trying to advance that agenda, but do know that that sport is positioned VERY well right now, and its marketing push seems diametrically opposed to the NFL--hell, the pregame routine for the NBA finals took about 3 minutes. The NFL blocks out an hour--or maybe 2 weeks, if you watch all the pregame shows. The NFL has attempted to create an aura of infallibility, and moral superiority, but refuses to apply that standard to their very good looking, very successful, very white posterboy. Considering white America is not letting their kids play football anymore, Roger is going to need that minority sector to staff his league in 10 years. He should be careful how he sells it today. Suspending black players for a year based on allegations/not letting due process play out, and then letting Tommy Golden Boy walk because he threatens a law suit? Ehhhhh, whatever man, don't say I didn't warn you. Somebody should warn Terry though, because I'm sure that asset is going to depreciate over the next 15-20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 That's all well and good about Vilma, Williams, and Peyton but the fact remains it has NO bearing on anything. Please tell me how Goodell could have handled the Patriots* case in a "wiser way." As has been mentioned numerous times, he is well within the scope of his authority which was granted him by the NFLPA. If the question is what is the "appropriate" punishment for refusing to cooperate in a league investigation, I think he is the sole arbiter in that regard as well. I get why the NFLPA threatens a suit, though. With any luck, we'll see it happen. GO BILLS!!! What that case showed is just because he is sole arbiter doesn't mean he will be able to do whatever he wants. I'm still very surprised he didn't concede and let someone else hear the appeal to help close the door on complaints. But he's not always learned from his mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 What that case showed is just because he is sole arbiter doesn't mean he will be able to do whatever he wants. I'm still very surprised he didn't concede and let someone else hear the appeal to help close the door on complaints. But he's not always learned from his mistakes. Again, please tell me what bearing that has on this case. Is the assumption that because Goodell's punishment of a previous player, in circumstances and for perceived infractions far removed from this case, then ANY punishment Goodell hands down is automatically suspect? There is very little murky area in this case. A rules infraction plus non-cooperation in the subsequent investigation. Tell me how Goodell made a mistake in this case. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Again, please tell me what bearing that has on this case. Is the assumption that because Goodell's punishment of a previous player, in circumstances and for perceived infractions far removed from this case, then ANY punishment Goodell hands down is automatically suspect? There is very little murky area in this case. A rules infraction plus non-cooperation in the subsequent investigation. Tell me how Goodell made a mistake in this case. GO BILLS!!! Show me any punishment in line with this for non-cooperation or for equipment violations, I guess would be my return volley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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