Kelly the Dog Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 If Goodell's ruling is challenged in court the "science" and Goodell's rulings in this case and others will certainly come into play. You and most others are concentrating on a particular case. I'm not. The disciplinary process is very much a contaminated process because the commissioner has lost credibility in the manner he manages his disciplinary authority. Of course not. The drug rulings are consistent because the rules applying to that category of violations are straight forward and very consistently applied. In cases where there is public pressure RG has a tendency to act out of self-interest more so than act with objectivity. The Rice and Vilma are illustrations of that type of less than proper exercising of authority. I happen to think he does, too, and I have said it here many times. In fact, that is the only way he is going to drop the games from 4 to 2, if he believes it will look better for the league. But you're totally ignoring what actually happened, and then what happened in the aftermath. It doesn't matter if it helps him or not. If a guy playing cards is looking at your hand, he's cheating and you don't want to play cards with him anymore. It doesn't matter if he won that hand or helped him or not. Just because Goodell has been an idiot in the past doesn't at all make this one suspect. In fact, and even though I believe it was ultimately his call, he was just agreeing with Vincent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I can only hope Goodell's ruling is challenged in court. I've been hoping for that all along because then we'd get to see the thousand plus pages of the entire Wells report vs the summary we've all seen and Jastremski and McNally would be compelled to testify and Tommy's phone records made available. It will be interesting to see the futile attacks on "the science" in the face of that; the "science" will be rendered not relevant. The "disciplinary process" in this case is pretty cut and dried. I find the comparisons to the Vilma and Rice processes lacking in relevant similarity. GO BILLS!!! You actually believe Wells is holding something back?? Impossible--he would have let it out on his whiny post release self defense call in. There is nothing a court case would reveal that would lead to a different outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 You actually believe Wells is holding something back?? Impossible--he would have let it out on his whiny post release self defense call in. There is nothing a court case would reveal that would lead to a different outcome. I think there is potentially a ton of stuff that McNally and Jastremski could say on the stand that would bury Brady's career and legacy as an icon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I think there is potentially a ton of stuff that McNally and Jastremski could say on the stand that would bury Brady's career and legacy as an icon I think Brady should tread lightly. Once this becomes a real court case he cannot pick and choose. nor can the rest of the Patriots staff> and heck it might not be a bad thing to get Wells on the stand. there is enough discussion going on that maybe he should answer some questions too. I would love for this t be elevated and the lights turned up bright. regardless of the truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Obviously you haven't looked at these case or you would know that answer. Firstly, the San Diego incident wasn't stickem. They were caught using towels that are coated in a sticky substance and rubbing the ball with them. The towels, at the time, were completely legal to use on your hands just not to be used on the balls. The attendant who got caught doing it had no idea it wasn't legal and admitted to doing it right away. The Chargers didn't hold a press conference and tell everyone that there is no way this could be true. It happened right out in the open and the officials saw it happen. Let's look at the differences: 1. San Diego admitted the fault and cooperated. 2. They didn't attempt to hide it. Secondly, the Falcons. Again, this offence happened in complete sight of the officials. Atlanta didn't attempt to hide that fact. The ball boy was attempting to keep the balls at the same temperature as they would have been when they were inflated. The Falcons didn't hold a press conference and deny any involvement. 1. Atlanta admitted the fault and cooperated. 2. They didn't attempt to hide it. I'll ask again, what exactly is wrong about the process Rodger Goodell has chosen to take? As a point of accuracy, as both sides seem to be skewing past cases some... San Diego was fined for the ball boy refusing to turn over the towel. I think there is potentially a ton of stuff that McNally and Jastremski could say on the stand that would bury Brady's career and legacy as an icon Or potentially they dont say much of anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 As a point of accuracy, as both sides seem to be skewing past cases some... San Diego was fined for the ball boy refusing to turn over the towel. But it was the same thing, because Goodell is always wrong. And wrong is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 As a point of accuracy, as both sides seem to be skewing past cases some... San Diego was fined for the ball boy refusing to turn over the towel. Isn't this also potentially same reason why Brady was punished? For not turning over texts relevant to the investigation? (at least in part) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Isn't this also potentially same reason why Brady was punished? For not turning over texts relevant to the investigation? (at least in part) Just that 20k and a suspension is a big gap. And no punishment for a pats teammate who also refused is s big gap. And therein may be a problem for the nfl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) Just that 20k and a suspension is a big gap. And no punishment for a pats teammate who also refused is s big gap. And therein may be a problem for the nfl. I get that. But in this case the Pats** are repeat offenders in breaking the rules to gain a competitive advantage. I'm sure the chargers have had other incidences as well but everything that has happened with the Pats** is under the same regime. The other player refusing is a big gap, I agree, but a kicker refusing to had over texts isn't the same as Tom Brady. It's also always easier for the NFL to fine team personnel than it is a player because of the CBA. Kind of like how Sean Peyton took it in the teeth and the players were pretty much exonerated (or paid off). Edited July 6, 2015 by The Wiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Just that 20k and a suspension is a big gap. And no punishment for a pats teammate who also refused is s big gap. And therein may be a problem for the nfl. I appreciate you and other reasonable posters playing devil's advocate on this and other stuff. It may not seem that way but i do, and I do the same thing on different topics. But I'm not sure why you still bring up the Gostowski comparison. He wasn't accused of anything. Can you imagine the uproar over someone who didn't do anything, was never accused of anything, and then was suspended for not cooperating? They were looking into the kicking balls just to see if there was any impropriety and soon realized there was nothing wrong. Hell, if Wells walked up to me and said "We're investigating football fans can I see all of your texts" I would say get the hell away from me. If he said I was accused of something I probably would show it to him (and surely would if it was an NFL investigation and I didn't do anything wrong). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 I appreciate you and other reasonable posters playing devil's advocate on this and other stuff. It may not seem that way but i do, and I do the same thing on different topics. But I'm not sure why you still bring up the Gostowski comparison. He wasn't accused of anything. Can you imagine the uproar over someone who didn't do anything, was never accused of anything, and then was suspended for not cooperating? They were looking into the kicking balls just to see if there was any impropriety and soon realized there was nothing wrong. Hell, if Wells walked up to me and said "We're investigating football fans can I see all of your texts" I would say get the hell away from me. If he said I was accused of something I probably would show it to him (and surely would if it was an NFL investigation and I didn't do anything wrong). He's an nfl player subject to the CBA and one that would have particular knowledge about ball prep potentially. And was asked by investigators for his records seemingly because they thought they might find info. It's not like they were asking a linebacker in Detroit for his phone info for an investigation on the patriots ball prep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 He's an nfl player subject to the CBA and one that would have particular knowledge about ball prep potentially. And was asked by investigators for his records seemingly because they thought they might find info. It's not like they were asking a linebacker in Detroit for his phone info for an investigation on the patriots ball prep. They weren't looking into ball prep. If anyone was hurt by what happened to the K ball it was Gostkowski. They were looking into why his kicking ball was taken from the game (so it could be auctioned later) and wasn't allowed to be returned. There wasn't any wrongdoing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 I think there is potentially a ton of stuff that McNally and Jastremski could say on the stand that would bury Brady's career and legacy as an icon "Tom told us to deflate the balls some" (crickets) There is nothing else. Everyone assumes this already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 "Tom told us to deflate the balls some" (crickets) There is nothing else. Everyone assumes this already. "We have been doing this for four years.""We did it at away games, too." "Of course Kraft and Belichick knew about it, they..." "We not only took air out of our balls we put air into the opponents balls." There could be all kinds of things as well as further proof that people like me and you understand it's obvious that he did it and knew about it but that it makes it crystal clear to retarded people and delusional people, too. They don't assume it already at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 "We have been doing this for four years." "We did it at away games, too." "Of course Kraft and Belichick knew about it, they..." "We not only took air out of our balls we put air into the opponents balls." There could be all kinds of things as well as further proof that people like me and you understand it's obvious that he did it and knew about it but that it makes it crystal clear to retarded people and delusional people, too. They don't assume it already at all. You're leaving out the fact that any such revelations would be met by WEO sticking his fingers in his ears and yelling Nanny Nanny Woo Woo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 "We have been doing this for four years." "We did it at away games, too." "Of course Kraft and Belichick knew about it, they..." "We not only took air out of our balls we put air into the opponents balls." There could be all kinds of things as well as further proof that people like me and you understand it's obvious that he did it and knew about it but that it makes it crystal clear to retarded people and delusional people, too. They don't assume it already at all. That's just on this topic alone. They may also know other embarrassing/inopportune facts the Pats* would not want public. This may get a whole lot more interesting if it heads in that direction, but I suspect if that were the case these two "gentlemen" would be paid appropriately for their silence, if that hasn't happened already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 "We have been doing this for four years." "We did it at away games, too." "Of course Kraft and Belichick knew about it, they..." "We not only took air out of our balls we put air into the opponents balls." There could be all kinds of things as well as further proof that people like me and you understand it's obvious that he did it and knew about it but that it makes it crystal clear to retarded people and delusional people, too. They don't assume it already at all. Everyone assumes they have been doing it every year for 4 years. Bellichick may know, but its hard to imagine an owner would be aware of this minutiae. Putting air into other teams balls is something silly you threw in. Although some future HOF QBs prefer this and would think the pats are crazy for deflating balls due to the disadvantage it brings. That's just on this topic alone. They may also know other embarrassing/inopportune facts the Pats* would not want public. This may get a whole lot more interesting if it heads in that direction, but I suspect if that were the case these two "gentlemen" would be paid appropriately for their silence, if that hasn't happened already. There is absolutely nothing preventing these screwed over guys from spilling their guts at any time right now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 There is absolutely nothing preventing these screwed over guys from spilling their guts at any time right now.... There's absolutely no way you can know that for certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 There's absolutely no way you can know that for certain. True, Kraft could have a gun to their children's heads. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) True, Kraft could have a gun to their children's heads. Good point. Or dozens less dramatic reasons. Edited July 7, 2015 by GreggyT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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