Tired of Deflategate

[NoSaint]

If it were proven that a team won 4 Super Bowls, played in 2 others, and dominated a league for 15 straight years through a systematic approach to cheating, that might make a lot of people question whether being a fan is worth their time. I personally think that Goodell downplayed Spygate quite a bit, and is also pissed that the Pats** kept doing shady things after he helped out his buddy Kraft back in 2007.

 

 

And obviously this is all just my opinion, so don't ask me to back any of this up. Clearly I can't. I just won't be shocked if the halftime 'adjustments' of Spygate come out one day, plus the possible misuse of radio signals aiding Brady on the field.

gotcha. you almost didnt make it back around to what actions you were actually alleging. honestly, i still dont think that "takes down the sport" any more than a number of other scandals that were bound to ruin leagues. maybe knock it down a tiny peg, but certainly not a huge fall. short of finding out that the league was rigging games intentionally, the NFL will be the top dog for the foreseeable future.

[ko12010]

gotcha. you almost didnt make it back around to what actions you were actually alleging. honestly, i still dont think that "takes down the sport" any more than a number of other scandals that were bound to ruin leagues. maybe knock it down a tiny peg, but certainly not a huge fall. short of finding out that the league was rigging games intentionally, the NFL will be the top dog for the foreseeable future.

I would hope it wouldn't ruin the sport for sure. But if it ever comes out that there was a whole lot more to Spygate, that would likely incriminate Goodell pretty badly. The commissioner destroying evidence and covering up wrongdoing that affected outcomes of games for a long period would be somewhat comparable to the NFL rigging games intentionally.

 

And I want to make it clear that I hope I am totally wrong here, but I can't shake my gut feeling that Spygate goes way deeper than the public knows.

Edited June 29, 2015 by ko12010

[Mr. WEO]

i didn't imply anything, other than the three teams didn't get the waiver as stated in the link.

 

Come on Yolo! You teased it with "guess who's on the short list" in the Brady suspension...lol

I would hope it wouldn't ruin the sport for sure. But if it ever comes out that there was a whole lot more to Spygate, that would likely incriminate Goodell pretty badly. The commissioner destroying evidence and covering up wrongdoing that affected outcomes of games for a long period would be somewhat comparable to the NFL rigging games intentionally.

 

And I want to make it clear that I hope I am totally wrong here, but I can't shake my gut feeling that Spygate goes way deeper than the public knows.

 

 

Like what? Assume what everyone already has assumed (and Goodell said)--that they were taping signals for years.

 

At the time, this was the opinion of some (ESPN):

 

 

Some coaching staffs take greater care to disguise their signals, scouts said. Others show less concern, holding up two fingers to indicate Cover 2, for example. Scouts have noticed some defensive coaches sending in two numbers, one for the front alignment and the other for the coverage or blitz.

"We are just looking for blitzes or games up front," the NFC scout said, echoing what others said. "Some guys hide it, some guys do not. Maybe they switch it up a little, but these [players] aren't all rocket scientists. It takes some of them six weeks to get down one signal

 

 

 

The second quote is the best.

 

Anyway, every team suspected at least the patriots were taping at least a year before they were caught---because they all got a letter from the league telling them not to do it. You can then assume every team changed or disguised their signals (if they cared to) so taping would be nearly useless. Teams that held up 2 fingers for cover 2 obviously wouldn't be affected by opponents video taping that....

[ko12010]

 

Come on Yolo! You teased it with "guess who's on the short list" in the Brady suspension...lol

 

 

Like what? Assume what everyone already has assumed (and Goodell said)--that they were taping signals for years.

 

At the time, this was the opinion of some (ESPN):

 

 

 

The second quote is the best.

 

Anyway, every team suspected at least the patriots were taping at least a year before they were caught---because they all got a letter from the league telling them not to do it. You can then assume every team changed or disguised their signals (if they cared to) so taping would be nearly useless. Teams that held up 2 fingers for cover 2 obviously wouldn't be affected by opponents video taping that....

How would taping be useless when the signals taped were broken down during the game they were taped? This is where the mysterious figure Ernie Adams comes in. The Pats** would apparently tape the signals during the 1st quarter and 2nd quarter and this guy was/is able to break them down incredibly fast and help Brady and Belicheck devise the proper strategy to employ during the 2nd half.

 

We're not talking about taping signals during training camp or earlier games, but during the actual game being played. This may sound farfetched to you, but the theory has been floated out there.

[YoloinOhio]

 

Come on Yolo! You teased it with "guess who's on the short list" in the Brady suspension...lol

 

 

 

Like what? Assume what everyone already has assumed (and Goodell said)--that they were taping signals for years.

 

At the time, this was the opinion of some (ESPN):

 

 

 

The second quote is the best.

 

Anyway, every team suspected at least the patriots were taping at least a year before they were caught---because they all got a letter from the league telling them not to do it. You can then assume every team changed or disguised their signals (if they cared to) so taping would be nearly useless. Teams that held up 2 fingers for cover 2 obviously wouldn't be affected by opponents video taping that....

i just didn't want to start a new thread, considering it's not that big of a deal (imo). This is like the all-Pats thread atm. Edited June 29, 2015 by YoloinOhio

[Mr. WEO]

How would taping be useless when the signals taped were broken down during the game they were taped? This is where the mysterious figure Ernie Adams comes in. The Pats** would apparently tape the signals during the 1st quarter and 2nd quarter and this guy was/is able to break them down incredibly fast and help Brady and Belicheck devise the proper strategy to employ during the 2nd half.

 

We're not talking about taping signals during training camp or earlier games, but during the actual game being played. This may sound farfetched to you, but the theory has been floated out there.

 

 

We have all heard the theory. Some coaches, GMs, scouts think it's possbile to do all that deciphering and editing at halftime, others thought it was either not possible or of limited value.

 

 

"New England realistically may have been able to catch one or two plays from doing that and they could've had somebody in the press box getting the same information," said former Atlanta Falcons general manager Ken Herock, who also worked as an executive in Oakland and Green Bay. "And what you're actually talking about is one or two plays out of about 60 snaps a game. That really isn't a great advantage."

Plus, there is no guarantee a team will capitalize when it knows what plays are coming. A pass can be dropped, a block missed or a snap fumbled. There also are these likelihoods: A team can change its signs frequently, which often happens in the NFL, or a coach can confuse his own players with too much information about opponents.

Besides, it's not as though the defense isn't taking its own precautions.

 

 

"Just look at some of the middle linebackers now playing," Edwards said. "They're wearing huge wristbands with plays on them just like quarterbacks do. That's so they can look at a number on their wrists and know what the coach on the sideline wants to run. And of course, you have three different people sending in different signals so nobody can pick up on what you're doing. That's how crazy it has gotten."

 

 

If even these people question the actual benefit of taping (as opposed to just visually stealing them a week before with your scouts up in the press box at your next opponent's game), why do you think there is some catastrophic other shoe drop we haven't heard of with spygate?

[ko12010]

 

 

We have all heard the theory. Some coaches, GMs, scouts think it's possbile to do all that deciphering and editing at halftime, others thought it was either not possible or of limited value.

 

 

If even these people question the actual benefit of taping (as opposed to just visually stealing them a week before with your scouts up in the press box at your next opponent's game), why do you think there is some catastrophic other shoe drop we haven't heard of with spygate?

You can keep quoting from people all you want, but again, it's still just opinion. Maybe the Pats** were able to decipher far more than just 1 or 2 plays, maybe they were able to do most of them. Who knows. But quoting someone who is just also giving their opinion isn't really something of value. Yes, they have more knowledge, being in the NFL, but they're still just guessing.

 

My main point was that I wouldn't be surprised if something came out at some point. I don't necessarily believe this to be fact. Just speculation.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

can we get back to saying Brady*** cheats and so does his HC?

 

thanks

[NoSaint]

You can keep quoting from people all you want, but again, it's still just opinion. Maybe the Pats** were able to decipher far more than just 1 or 2 plays, maybe they were able to do most of them. Who knows. But quoting someone who is just also giving their opinion isn't really something of value. Yes, they have more knowledge, being in the NFL, but they're still just guessing.

 

My main point was that I wouldn't be surprised if something came out at some point. I don't necessarily believe this to be fact. Just speculation.

come on, his quoting nfl opinions on how things run is certainly more informative than you or i throwing out random guesses.

[Kelly the Dog]

We have all heard the theory. Some coaches, GMs, scouts think it's possbile to do all that deciphering and editing at halftime, others thought it was either not possible or of limited value.

 

 

 

If even these people question the actual benefit of taping (as opposed to just visually stealing them a week before with your scouts up in the press box at your next opponent's game), why do you think there is some catastrophic other shoe drop we haven't heard of with spygate?

Actually that lends much more credence to the idea it does help them or could actually win games for them. Those some GMs and coaches will say one or two plays are often the difference in games. Even in games decided by more than one score. If you know when to jump a route or what is being run on a critical fourth and two or any random time in a game when you know something beforehand and can take advantage could be a takeaway, TD, crucial stop, big play, etc.

 

And I'm someone who thinks Spygate didn't help them much if anything at all and was way overblown.

[DC Tom]

can we get back to saying Brady*** cheats and so does his HC?

 

thanks

 

Why even say "Brady cheats?" It's redundant. It's like saying "Cheater cheats" or "Brady's Brady."

 

And the asterisks...doubly redundant. "Cheating cheater cheats." Yeah, no ****. Just say "Brady."

[Mr. WEO]

Actually that lends much more credence to the idea it does help them or could actually win games for them. Those some GMs and coaches will say one or two plays are often the difference in games. Even in games decided by more than one score. If you know when to jump a route or what is being run on a critical fourth and two or any random time in a game when you know something beforehand and can take advantage could be a takeaway, TD, crucial stop, big play, etc.

 

And I'm someone who thinks Spygate didn't help them much if anything at all and was way overblown.

 

 

Actually, it infers the opposite, in the opinion of thos quoted.

 

Also, defenders "jump a route". These were D signals being taped, not offense.

[Kelly the Dog]

Actually, it infers the opposite, in the opinion of thos quoted.

From no help at all or meaningless to one or two plays a game they know what is going to happen is a HUGE leap. It could be the difference in a game.

 

Frankly, I'm just playing devils advocate here. I don't think it can help them that much at all. But the good argument against that, and about Brady cheating is that Belichick and Brady wouldn't do it if they didn't think it would help them.

[Mr. WEO]

From no help at all or meaningless to one or two plays a game they know what is going to happen is a HUGE leap. It could be the difference in a game.

 

Frankly, I'm just playing devils advocate here. I don't think it can help them that much at all. But the good argument against that, and about Brady cheating is that Belichick and Brady wouldn't do it if they didn't think it would help them.

 

I think that by pointing out that it was only 1 or 2 plays a game the pats could decipher, that they didn't think it had an impact. They specifically did not mention that those two plays could have a huge impact on the game. It's clear they didn't think so, so I think I can go with what they think as guys who would know.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

 

Why even say "Brady cheats?" It's redundant. It's like saying "Cheater cheats" or "Brady's Brady."

 

And the asterisks...doubly redundant. "Cheating cheater cheats." Yeah, no ****. Just say "Brady."

once again Tom you are correct. I'll remember that in the future

it has been said here, that Brady and or Pats must be followed with an *.

1 or 2 plays can change the game outcome

 

 

AINT THAT THE TRUTH

 

Music City Miracle, EJ vs Watts pick 6, half a dozen 4th QRT 2 minute f-ups against the Cheatriots

 

the list goes on and on and on

[dave mcbride]

Have at it, foes of Brady: http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/roger-goodell-has-one-credible-option-pardon-brady-blame-lax-protocols/2015/06/29/b2c12e28-1e76-11e5-bf41-c23f5d3face1_story.html

[eball]

Have at it, foes of Brady: http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/roger-goodell-has-one-credible-option-pardon-brady-blame-lax-protocols/2015/06/29/b2c12e28-1e76-11e5-bf41-c23f5d3face1_story.html

 

Her arguments are based upon a flawed premise -- that Brady* will definitely sue if the suspension isn't lifted. He won't.

 

Just because somebody gets a byline in a newspaper doesn't mean her opinions or conclusions are credible.

[BuffaloBaumer]

I have already accepted the reality that Brady will have zero suspension.....

[dave mcbride]

 

Her arguments are based upon a flawed premise -- that Brady* will definitely sue if the suspension isn't lifted. He won't.

 

Just because somebody gets a byline in a newspaper doesn't mean her opinions or conclusions are credible.

I really and truly think he will sue. I honestly feel like a suit by him is nearly certain if there's an adverse ruling, and I don't see why others would think differently. The only reason one would think that is if he is certain Brady has something to hide. I'm not confident that that this is the case at all. Indeed, I think there's a decent likelihood that there's nothing on his phone that's more incriminating than what they already have cited in the report - and I don't think that's much to go on anyway.

 

Who knows if it'll get to that point though.

[Kelly the Dog]

Her arguments are based upon a flawed premise -- that Brady* will definitely sue if the suspension isn't lifted. He won't.

 

Just because somebody gets a byline in a newspaper doesn't mean her opinions or conclusions are credible.

Jenkins has been writing crazy stories about Deflategate for awhile now.

I really and truly think he will sue. I honestly feel like a suit by him is nearly certain if there's an adverse ruling, and I don't see why others would think differently. The only reason one would think that is if he is certain Brady has something to hide. I'm not confident that that this is the case at all. Indeed, I think there's a decent likelihood that there's nothing on his phone that's more incriminating than what they already have cited in the report - and I don't think that's much to go on anyway.

 

Who knows if it'll get to that point though.

The issue is more about Needledee and Needledumb being put on the stand with threat of jail. They never had to really answer questions to Wells. McNally was never asked why he was called the Deflator. Or why he texted Jastremski at halftime of the Packer game. They were fired and they were made to sign NDA agreements without question. All that goes away in a courtroom. It's a whole different ballgame in a real court with real perjury possibilities. I really think there is zero chance.