Doc Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 BTW, it's eerie how much that guy sounds like Bon Scott.
Kelly the Dog Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 Well Emmanual Sanders seems to think the Patriots should not be Super Bowl winners because they cheated. Ha. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/
YoloinOhio Posted June 26, 2015 Author Posted June 26, 2015 Well Emmanual Sanders seems to think the Patriots should not be Super Bowl winners because they cheated. Ha. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/ hes obviously just a bitter Bills fan!
dave mcbride Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 I spent about six months researching Ruth for a project I was doing and read about 15 books on him, endless articles and anecdotes, etc. To me, he was arguably the best player in any team sport ever, as well as the most loved, consequential and influential. I agree, especially given that he was a fantastic pitcher (94-46 lifetime) too. Who were the best pitchers Ruth faced time after time in a season, year after year? I don't know the answer. Could he hit like that against today's pitchers? Julius Caesar would have gotten his ass kicked by the 101st Airborne division.
Mr. WEO Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) I agree, especially given that he was a fantastic pitcher (94-46 lifetime) too. Julius Caesar would have gotten his ass kicked by the 101st Airborne division. Well, all it took was his friend and a knife... Anyway, if Caesar had nuclear capabilities, he would have vaporised the 101st. Point is, unlike warfare, little has changed in the history of how baseball is conducted. Still just a guy with a ball throwing at a guy with a bat. The talent is what has changed. But I think you can't call a guy the best ever at any team sport without considering his competition (in the valley of the blind, the one eyed man is king, etc...). Same argument could be made in picking Jordan (clearly he is the best ever at any sport) and LaBron James. Jordan faced much better players in the best era of the NBA every night. James couldn't get by Steph Curry et al... Edited June 26, 2015 by Mr. WEO
dave mcbride Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) Well, all it took was his friend and a knife... But I think you can't call a guy the best ever at any team sport without considering his competition (in the valley of the blind, the one eyed man is king, etc...). Same argument could be made in picking Jordan (clearly he is the best ever at any sport) and LaBron James. Jordan faced much better players in the best era of the NBA every night. James couldn't get by Steph Curry et al... You can only compare like to like. Ruth dominated like no other, in my opinion. As for the NBA, I think the play is better than it was in the 90s because teams and players pretty much across the board are so much more sound defensively. Defense was a bit more "optional" in its supposed glory days. Coaching is far better too given guys like Pop and the arrival of deep sabremetrics for BB. The talent pool is larger now too. Regardless, I'm not going to argue against Jordan given his level of domination. The better comparison to Jordan may be Kobe, actually. Edit: At least according to VORP stats, James is the better comparable to Jordan. Plus I think Kareem is seriously underrated. Edited June 26, 2015 by dave mcbride
downunderbill Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 I was watching an Australian rules game and even the commentators here in Australia commented the the balls must be deflated and took a crack at the pats. Quite funny to hear.
Thunderstealer Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 The more I think about this trick The Patriots* did, the more it bothers me. Even if the deflation of balls aided in only one non fumble-- or in Brady's case (if it resulted) in just one first down throw completion where a league ball would've fallen incomplete, the snowball effect of these undeserved plays cannot be gauged. Cheating pigs.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 the deflated balls are more for holding on to the ball. THE only stat of significance that was measured since 2006 was fumbles where the Putz magically lead the league in the fewest since Brady*** asked to have each team control the ball. now who a decade ago thought of that cheat? Brady*** or Bilicheat?
Mr. WEO Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 You can only compare like to like. Ruth dominated like no other, in my opinion. As for the NBA, I think the play is better than it was in the 90s because teams and players pretty much across the board are so much more sound defensively. Defense was a bit more "optional" in its supposed glory days. Coaching is far better too given guys like Pop and the arrival of deep sabremetrics for BB. The talent pool is larger now too. Regardless, I'm not going to argue against Jordan given his level of domination. The better comparison to Jordan may be Kobe, actually. Edit: At least according to VORP stats, James is the better comparable to Jordan. Plus I think Kareem is seriously underrated. Defense is better now? Jordan was a great defender. James would get hammered against the Detroit teams of the late 80's. The Knicks big bruisers in the 90's would have hurt him as well Oakely, Grand Mamma). Coaching is better now? Pop for sure is an HOFer. Back then there was also Daly, Riley, Phil Jackson, even Larry Brown. Now you have guys like Spolstra and Kerr (walks in and wins it all) and jeez...Dave Blatt?? These guys are all coaches of finalist and champs recently. Look around the league at the quality of NBA coaches. Not good. The star power in this NBA finals was pretty dim, other than a few flashes of Curry and James. The MVP was a joke. Neither of these teams takes a game off of the Jordan Bulls, the Kobe/Shaq Lakers, the Bad Boy Pistons, any Bird Celtics heyday team, even the Ewing Knicks or the Reggie Pacers. No way... the deflated balls are more for holding on to the ball. THE only stat of significance that was measured since 2006 was fumbles where the Putz magically lead the league in the fewest since Brady*** asked to have each team control the ball. now who a decade ago thought of that cheat? Brady*** or Bilicheat? So....NE SB wins with deflated balls: 0-2, with regulation pressure balls 1-0. What were you saying again?
Kelly the Dog Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 Defense is better now? Jordan was a great defender. James would get hammered against the Detroit teams of the late 80's. The Knicks big bruisers in the 90's would have hurt him as well Oakely, Grand Mamma). Coaching is better now? Pop for sure is an HOFer. Back then there was also Daly, Riley, Phil Jackson, even Larry Brown. Now you have guys like Spolstra and Kerr (walks in and wins it all) and jeez...Dave Blatt?? These guys are all coaches of finalist and champs recently. Look around the league at the quality of NBA coaches. Not good. The star power in this NBA finals was pretty dim, other than a few flashes of Curry and James. The MVP was a joke. Neither of these teams takes a game off of the Jordan Bulls, the Kobe/Shaq Lakers, the Bad Boy Pistons, any Bird Celtics heyday team, even the Ewing Knicks or the Reggie Pacers. No way... So....NE SB wins with deflated balls: 0-2, with regulation pressure balls 1-0. What were you saying again? It took 5-6 years for Jordan to become Jordan. He used to miss shots at the end of important games all the time. The Jordan Bulls you talk about were his seventh year and beyond and they were LOADED. Pippin was a top 50 all time player. Rodman was the best rebounder in the league and a guy like Jordan's dream; he never wanted the ball. Grant was an excellent role player. Whichever white guy they had in any given year like Paxson and Kerr would nail most every three they needed. Their centers played decent D. They had great coaching. Jordan was fabulous. It's inarguable. But his team gets way too little credit.
Dan Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 ... So....NE SB wins with deflated balls: 0-2, with regulation pressure balls 1-0. What were you saying again? I think what he is saying, similar to many people including myself, is that without the deflated balls, video taping, communications issues, questionable formations, and whatever else the league as kept quiet... They wouldn't have even been in the Super Bowl, let alone had a chance to win one. Let's not whitewash it, name another team that has had so many proven and alleged instances of violating rules as this team has for the last 10-15yrs. People can argue how much of an advantage it was, or even the scientific validity of it (as though only peer reviewed scientific research papers are... nevermind), but the fact remains... Only one team has been repeatedly accused of, investigated and found guilty of violating league rules in a manner that directly affects the outcome of a game on the field on game day. Sure, you and others may point to teams piping in crowd noise or abusing the salary cap, but none of that is game day cheating that directly affects the game that day as much as tampering with the ball or altering the communications to your players about to make a play. So, yes, defend them as not being that bad. Defend them as being part of an entire league that cheats. Defend them because Wells didn't commission a 5 year scientific study to determine the accuracy and precision of NFL pressure guages while determining the atmospheric conditions inside and outside of NFL locker rooms and bathrooms. Defend them in any way you wish to conjure. But, the reality you can not escape is that they're the only team that is accused of this type of stuff year in and year out and they're the only team that the league has found enough evidence to levy punishment on and instituted new rules and procedures to stop.
eball Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 I think what he is saying, similar to many people including myself, is that without the deflated balls, video taping, communications issues, questionable formations, and whatever else the league as kept quiet... They wouldn't have even been in the Super Bowl, let alone had a chance to win one. Let's not whitewash it, name another team that has had so many proven and alleged instances of violating rules as this team has for the last 10-15yrs. People can argue how much of an advantage it was, or even the scientific validity of it (as though only peer reviewed scientific research papers are... nevermind), but the fact remains... Only one team has been repeatedly accused of, investigated and found guilty of violating league rules in a manner that directly affects the outcome of a game on the field on game day. Sure, you and others may point to teams piping in crowd noise or abusing the salary cap, but none of that is game day cheating that directly affects the game that day as much as tampering with the ball or altering the communications to your players about to make a play. So, yes, defend them as not being that bad. Defend them as being part of an entire league that cheats. Defend them because Wells didn't commission a 5 year scientific study to determine the accuracy and precision of NFL pressure guages while determining the atmospheric conditions inside and outside of NFL locker rooms and bathrooms. Defend them in any way you wish to conjure. But, the reality you can not escape is that they're the only team that is accused of this type of stuff year in and year out and they're the only team that the league has found enough evidence to levy punishment on and instituted new rules and procedures to stop. BOOM goes the dynamite!
Nanker Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 BOOM goes the dynamite! Why, it's almost like your avatar could talk!
DC Tom Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 I agree, especially given that he was a fantastic pitcher (94-46 lifetime) too. Julius Caesar would have gotten his ass kicked by the 101st Airborne division. No, he wouldn't have. Julius Caesar had a better PR machine - one of the best in history. Even if he'd lost, we'd still be hearing about how he kicked the 101st's ass. Much like how we keep hearing that Tom Brady is still the greatest ever, even though he's a lying cheating bastard. PR trumps results.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 So....NE SB wins with deflated balls: 0-2, with regulation pressure balls 1-0. What were you saying again? can I quote DC Tom? you're an idiot? they sought an advantage by breaking rules. Do you deny that they broke the rules and ran illegal plays VS the Ravens? (must I repost the link)
Mr. WEO Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 It took 5-6 years for Jordan to become Jordan. He used to miss shots at the end of important games all the time. The Jordan Bulls you talk about were his seventh year and beyond and they were LOADED. Pippin was a top 50 all time player. Rodman was the best rebounder in the league and a guy like Jordan's dream; he never wanted the ball. Grant was an excellent role player. Whichever white guy they had in any given year like Paxson and Kerr would nail most every three they needed. Their centers played decent D. They had great coaching. Jordan was fabulous. It's inarguable. But his team gets way too little credit. Pippen was made into the player that he became by Jordan. Without Jordan, Pippen has zero rings. Rodman's rebounding prowess was actually lessened when he got to Chicago (only 3 years anyway). Paxon didn't make more than 45 3 per year in his last several years in Chicago. So that team was "loaded" with role players. James's Miami teams? Loaded... I think what he is saying, similar to many people including myself, is that without the deflated balls, video taping, communications issues, questionable formations, and whatever else the league as kept quiet... They wouldn't have even been in the Super Bowl, let alone had a chance to win one. They got into 3 SBs without any taping. They lost 2 of them with (presumed) "deflated balls" and lost both. They won their only SB in 10 years with regulation pressure balls. That's all I'm saying. They made it to last SB by beating the Colts, from 14 points down, AFTER the balls were reinflated to proper pressure. Pointing out these obvious facts is not "defending" anyone... can I quote DC Tom? you're an idiot? they sought an advantage by breaking rules. Do you deny that they broke the rules and ran illegal plays VS the Ravens? (must I repost the link) Wow, you over off your deflated ball post pretty quick. Shocking. Anyway, they made their "illegal substitution" right in front of the refs and the refs announced it on the PA. Harbaugh cried loudly about that play and that was it.
Kelly the Dog Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 Pippen was made into the player that he became by Jordan. Without Jordan, Pippen has zero rings. Rodman's rebounding prowess was actually lessened when he got to Chicago (only 3 years anyway). Paxon didn't make more than 45 3 per year in his last several years in Chicago. So that team was "loaded" with role players. James's Miami teams? Loaded... Without Pippen, Jordan has zero rings. He tried it and failed, six years in a row, until Pippin was a full time starter in his third season.
Mr. WEO Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 Without Pippen, Jordan has zero rings. He tried it and failed, six years in a row, until Pippin was a full time starter in his third season. Pippen was a great tandem player...to Jordan, no doubt. Jordan led Bulls won 3 rings and she Jordan took a year off, no rings. Pippen had a below average year. Jordan comes back and three more rings. Pippen leaves Chicago and disappears into mediocrity.
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