Doc Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 The science isn't going to be the determining factor here -- if the Pats** really thought they could win the science battle Kraft wouldn't have caved. I truly believe the only factor relevant to Goodell in Tuesday's 10-hour session was whether Brady* appeared to be honest and sincere, and if he provided any new information other than "his word" that he should be exonerated. Brady's appearance means little as well. Obviously he's going to lie and has been coached-up by his lawyer(s).
eball Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 Brady's appearance means little as well. Obviously he's going to lie and has been coached-up by his lawyer(s). Which is why I believe the full 4-game suspension will be upheld -- Brady* has made a mockery of the whole situation by insulting our intelligence.
Kelly the Dog Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 @26...that "interview" may be the most ridiculous thing I've heard. "Everything in Tom Brady*'s life is good." Rapoport provided absolutely no insight, despite Eisen's consistent prodding for some.Who in their right mind thought Brady's first press conference he came off good? Except Pats fans, who are not in their right mind. Which is why I believe the full 4-game suspension will be upheld -- Brady* has made a mockery of the whole situation by insulting our intelligence.If Brady, which I'm sure he did, still just flat denied knowing anything about it, how is it possible it gets completely thrown out? If Brady says, okay, you got me, i did it and I'm sorry, how is it possible that it gets completely thrown out? As I have said before, it's possible that spineless, erratic, shameless Goodell just thinks it looks better for the league by reducing it in half to two games. He's not really even going to consider the science, IMO. Other than say, ok the science in the Wells report makes sense if Brady did it, and EVERYTHING in the texts and actions of the people directly involved say he did it.
YoloinOhio Posted June 25, 2015 Author Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) Brady's appearance means little as well. Obviously he's going to lie and has been coached-up by his lawyer(s).but he was "under oath"! Edited June 25, 2015 by YoloinOhio
26CornerBlitz Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 @MikeReiss AFC East Q&A w/ @RichCimini, @mikerodak & @JamesWalkerNFL: What impact will Brady's suspension have on division foes? http://es.pn/1GsQxE6
Kelly the Dog Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 @MikeReiss AFC East Q&A w/ @RichCimini, @mikerodak & @JamesWalkerNFL: What impact will Brady's suspension have on division foes? http://es.pn/1GsQxE6 Rodak and Walker, who are both terrible, completely missed the obvious big picture implications of the question that Cimini addressed.
Matt in KC Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 While Brady can use the team facility, I don't think he can practice with the team during his suspension. Brady was slow to warm up last year. Hopefully the suspension messes with team chemistry and extends that warm-up period. If the suspension really is 4 games, that is long enough it may really affect the offense, and WRs especially, after his return. One or two games would be much less impact. Personally, I think Tom is likely to do some kind of practicing with the team/teammates beyond what the league dictates. I very much want someone get a movie of that. What would the punishment be for not following the prescribed punishment? Does anyone know if Tom can attend team meetings during his suspension or be on the sidelines during those games?
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 Who in their right mind thought Brady's first press conference he came off good? Except Pats fans, who are not in their right mind. If Brady, which I'm sure he did, still just flat denied knowing anything about it, how is it possible it gets completely thrown out? If Brady says, okay, you got me, i did it and I'm sorry, how is it possible that it gets completely thrown out? As I have said before, it's possible that spineless, erratic, shameless Goodell just thinks it looks better for the league by reducing it in half to two games. He's not really even going to consider the science, IMO. Other than say, ok the science in the Wells report makes sense if Brady did it, and EVERYTHING in the texts and actions of the people directly involved say he did it. you mean other than Putz fans? it doesn't take 10 hours to say I am sorry I screwed up and cheated. yes the gutless one could reduce it by 2 games. which is what I expect if he folds a bit.
Pneumonic Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) Yeah, because there's no middle ground between "fraud" and "published in Physical Review B." And the control group was Indianapolis' balls, you idiot. No need to get personal. I don’t have a grip on the legal issues but the science is well within my area of expertise. There are too many variables involved for the Colts balls to be considered controlled. Scientifically, Wells would have had his answer within minutes if proper consideration was given to the primary tenet of conducting a test that involves instrument measurements; that test is valid only if said test instruments are properly calibrated (at minimum gauge R&R) at the onset of the testing procedure. That the league doesn’t have such a protocol in place meant that the refs didn’t use calibrated gauges which means there is no established reference point insofar as the PSI levels of the initially tested footballs. With no established initial PSI the final PSI’s matter not. But having his scientific answer in a matter of minutes didn’t jive with the $5M retainer/billable hours charge set aside so ..... the hunt was on. Edited June 25, 2015 by Pneumonic
Kelly the Dog Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 No need to get personal. I don’t have a grip on the legal issues but the science is well within my area of expertise. There are too many variables involved for the Colts balls to be considered controlled. Scientifically, Wells would have had his answer within minutes if proper consideration was given to the primary tenet of conducting a test that involves instrument measurements; that test is valid only if said test instruments are properly calibrated (at minimum gauge R&R) at the onset of the testing procedure. That the league doesn’t have such a protocol in place meant that the refs didn’t use calibrated gauges which means there is no established reference point insofar as the PSI levels of the initially tested footballs. With no established initial PSI the final PSI’s matter not. But having his scientific answer in a matter of minutes didn’t jive with the $5M retainer/billable hours charge set aside so ..... the hunt was on. There was no reason to have them. The NFL never assumed that a team would steal the balls from the refs, take them to a bathroom and let air out of them. But regardless of that, with what you just said they should just let Brady get away with it because there is no possible way to get exact measurements. That's ridiculous in my opinion. There is a way to be 99.99% sure the balls were altered, which is enough.
Pneumonic Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 There was no reason to have them. The NFL never assumed that a team would steal the balls from the refs, take them to a bathroom and let air out of them. But regardless of that, with what you just said they should just let Brady get away with it because there is no possible way to get exact measurements. That's ridiculous in my opinion. There is a way to be 99.99% sure the balls were altered, which is enough. As i said .. this is my scientific opinion of its validity. This would be laughed at at peer level. Cooperation (or lack thereof) seems to be the only relevant issue to me. If it gets to court, I think the NFL will have to prove they have just cause/reason to fire a union guy. Do this, they win.
Kelly the Dog Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 As i said .. this is my scientific opinion of its validity. This would be laughed at at peer level. Cooperation (or lack thereof) seems to be the only relevant issue to me. If it gets to court, I think the NFL will have to prove they have just cause/reason to fire a union guy. Do this, they win. You're ignoring the fact that the science doesn't have to be at the peer level. At all. The league isn't, nor should it, going to consider that.
Doc Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 As i said .. this is my scientific opinion of its validity. This would be laughed at at peer level. Cooperation (or lack thereof) seems to be the only relevant issue to me. If it gets to court, I think the NFL will have to prove they have just cause/reason to fire a union guy. Do this, they win. No, complaints of the Cheaters using deflated balls, taking the balls into a bathroom, talking about "deflating," and balls actually being deflated are the relevant issues. The lack of cooperation is an additional issue.
Pneumonic Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 You're ignoring the fact that the science doesn't have to be at the peer level. At all. The league isn't, nor should it, going to consider that. I am just commenting from a science perspective. if I were called in to debunk the paper, I could easily do so in a manner of minutes. How that reflects legally .... beats me.
Kelly the Dog Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 I am just commenting from a science perspective. if I were called in to debunk the paper, I could easily do so in a manner of minutes. How that reflects legally .... beats me. I guess I understand. But I don't know what that proves. Academically you could disprove the paper because, as you say, there was not a written down starting point. But they did have a specific and solid starting point, which no one denies. So it seems to me that you could prove the science as to whether or not the balls were altered, you just couldn't prove it academically or as you say like in a peer review.
Nanker Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 That's it! I want all NFL Referee's watches AND the game clocks in every stadium calibrated with an atomic clock before every game, at the end of halftime, and at the end of every game, and before and after any overtime period. It's only common sense. Somebody's been getting screwed. I know it I just can't prove it. But I know it. The only way to settle it is to calibrate all the chronometers with an atomic clock. Anything less and it would be a travesty. A travesty.
Kelly the Dog Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 That's it! I want all NFL Referee's watches AND the game clocks in every stadium calibrated with an atomic clock before every game, at the end of halftime, and at the end of every game, and before and after any overtime period. It's only common sense. Somebody's been getting screwed. I know it I just can't prove it. But I know it. The only way to settle it is to calibrate all the chronometers with an atomic clock. Anything less and it would be a travesty. A travesty.Lol. I think that's the way it needs to be. Oh, and when they take the little white card out of their back pocket and write down the timeouts with a golf pencil, each time that needs to be signed in front of a notary.
Nanker Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 I think Goodell should offer Brady** the option of having to get 11 yards for every first down or their opponents get a first down for getting nine yards. That's about the same percentage advantage that Brady** gave himself by playing with soft balls.
thebandit27 Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 As i said .. this is my scientific opinion of its validity. This would be laughed at at peer level. Cooperation (or lack thereof) seems to be the only relevant issue to me. If it gets to court, I think the NFL will have to prove they have just cause/reason to fire a union guy. Do this, they win. Two things: (1) best that can be provided in opposition to tampering is "you cannot prove it definitively with science". Whether they're using the Ideal Gas Law, Van der Waals equation, etc., there's no denying that the Pats** footballs deflated more than (a) what the Colts' did (even when factoring in the idea that Indy's footballs sat in a warmer environment for longer) and (b) the laws predict (even with a 5% confidence interval--which is too large IMO). (2) if it goes to court, the lawyers for the NFL can and will subpoena Brady's phone for relevant correspondence...not good for him or his case (presumably, and considering that he refused to even turn over correspondence selected at his discretion, I think it's a safe presumption).
Kelly the Dog Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 The Patriots** can't go a few months without cheating. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/25/nflpa-files-complaint-over-patriots-treatment-of-malcolm-butler/ These guys are like Snidley Whiplash.
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