Tired of Deflategate

[BuffaloHokie13]

Respectfully as well, QBs doctoring footballs is as old as the game itself. My point is that if it was about that and that alone, Brady would have received a slap on the wrist like other players have gotten for similar violations in the quest to gain a competitive edge.

 

Lying about it and refusing to cooperate broke a far bigger rule and necessitated a far bigger penalty. Again, especially in light of their previous transgressions.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Lying about it is what brought on the $5M investigation in the first place.

[Kelly the Dog]

I get your point, but they needed to go through all that due diligence in order to justify the penalty of $1m, 1 1st in 2016, and a 4th in 2017 and suspending Brady the 4 games.

 

I just found it very fishy that seemingly overnight, Kraft goes from all the harsh rhetoric about the injustice of it all to meekly accepting the penalty. And at great risk of alienating his fan base, which he did.

 

So I don't think it's a question of the league being afraid at all. I think they made a deal with Kraft and when they end up reducing or vacating the penalty to Brady, the league will trumpet how stern they were in the form of the fine and penalties against the organization that are left standing.

 

I guess I'm just cynical.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I took that as typical Kraft. He's the most disingenuous person around. He was all bluster and was sure if not hoping that Goodell would cave because he was Bob Kraft and they were the Patriots. When he tried everything he could and got shot down, and realized he had no way to win, he did the most Kraftian of all things, he lies even more and says I'm doing this for the good of the league even though they are still wrong. It's incredible he gets away with that crap.

 

Brady is doing the exact same thing. That is why I think there is a decent chance that Goodell just holds strong and keeps it as is. He truly should. There is no chance Brady is going to court.

 

It's possible that Goodell thinks it's best to look like he is trying to be fair and reduce it to two games. But that would just show his weakness. This is going to be a good litmus test. I'm not a huge Goodell fan, but I think the owners love him. Kind of like Jerry Sullivan. Everybody seems to hate him except his employers who know he's doing a fabulous job.

 

If it's Goodells idea to regain personal power and strength, he keeps the four games. That very may well be his MO. If his MO is really to do what he feels is best for the league PR wise (I surely don't trust his judgement on this), AND he believes it will look better for the NFL and him to reduce it, he will. I don't know which of those two angles drives him more.

[dave mcbride]

I get your point, but they needed to go through all that due diligence in order to justify the penalty of $1m, 1 1st in 2016, and a 4th in 2017 and suspending Brady the 4 games.

 

I just found it very fishy that seemingly overnight, Kraft goes from all the harsh rhetoric about the injustice of it all to meekly accepting the penalty. And at great risk of alienating his fan base, which he did.

 

So I don't think it's a question of the league being afraid at all. I think they made a deal with Kraft and when they end up reducing or vacating the penalty to Brady, the league will trumpet how stern they were in the form of the fine and penalties against the organization that are left standing.

 

I guess I'm just cynical.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Respectfully as well, QBs doctoring footballs is as old as the game itself. My point is that if it was about that and that alone, Brady would have received a slap on the wrist like other players have gotten for similar violations in the quest to gain a competitive edge.

 

Lying about it and refusing to cooperate broke a far bigger rule and necessitated a far bigger penalty. Again, especially in light of their previous transgressions.

 

GO BILLS!!!

K-9: 2 points. We don't know if he lied from the evidence on offer (let me rephrase that: I don't know if he lied.) The second is probably more important: he didn't hand over his texts. I probably stand alone on this matter, but as a matter of principle I don't think he or any other player should be required to do this. Based on past behavior, I certainly wouldn't trust the league to keep information confidential. I do of course realize what the CBA allows the commissioner to demand, but that's a contractual issue and not a matter of principle. I do agree that by not handing his texts over he violated that rule, but I have a fundamental problem with the league's ability to demand that he hand over texts. If, on the other hand, the league were required to hand over all of ITS texts related to the matter (i.e., from the Colts and Ravens as well texts related to the false Mortensen leak, which they never attempted to quash despite its manifest falsity), I might feel differently. But they aren't. It's a fundamentally unfair and one-sided process.

 

To reiterate, though, I do realize that the players signed onto this.

Edited June 24, 2015 by dave mcbride

[K-9]

I took that as typical Kraft. He's the most disingenuous person around. He was all bluster and was sure if not hoping that Goodell would cave because he was Bob Kraft and they were the Patriots. When he tried everything he could and got shot down, and realized he had no way to win, he did the most Kraftian of all things, he lies even more and says I'm doing this for the good of the league even though they are still wrong. It's incredible he gets away with that crap.

 

Brady is doing the exact same thing. That is why I think there is a decent chance that Goodell just holds strong and keeps it as is. He truly should. There is no chance Brady is going to court.

 

It's possible that Goodell thinks it's best to look like he is trying to be fair and reduce it to two games. But that would just show his weakness. This is going to be a good litmus test. I'm not a huge Goodell fan, but I think the owners love him. Kind of like Jerry Sullivan. Everybody seems to hate him except his employers who know he's doing a fabulous job.

 

If it's Goodells idea to regain personal power and strength, he keeps the four games. That very may well be his MO. If his MO is really to do what he feels is best for the league PR wise (I surely don't trust his judgement on this), AND he believes it will look better for the NFL and him to reduce it, he will. I don't know which of those two angles drives him more.

I hadn't considered it in this light previously. This is plausible on several levels. Thanks for the insight.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[NoSaint]

I get your point, but they needed to go through all that due diligence in order to justify the penalty of $1m, 1 1st in 2016, and a 4th in 2017 and suspending Brady the 4 games.

 

I just found it very fishy that seemingly overnight, Kraft goes from all the harsh rhetoric about the injustice of it all to meekly accepting the penalty. And at great risk of alienating his fan base, which he did.

 

So I don't think it's a question of the league being afraid at all. I think they made a deal with Kraft and when they end up reducing or vacating the penalty to Brady, the league will trumpet how stern they were in the form of the fine and penalties against the organization that are left standing.

 

I guess I'm just cynical.

 

GO BILLS!!!

as a simpler explanation possibly.... could it be similar to the saints players fighting the punishments but coaches and team not really having any avenue to do so?

[K-9]

K-9: 2 points. We don't know if he lied from the evidence on offer (let me rephrase that: I don't know if he lied.) The second is probably more important: he didn't hand over his texts. I probably stand alone on this matter, but as a matter of principle I don't think he or any other player should be required to do this. Based on past behavior, I certainly wouldn't trust the league to keep information confidential. I do of course realize what the CBA allows the commissioner to demand, but that's a contractual issue and not a matter of principle. I do agree that by not handing his texts over he violated that rule, but I have a fundamental problem with the league's ability to demand that he hand over texts. If, on the other hand, the league were required to hand over all of ITS texts related to the matter (i.e., from the Colts and Ravens as well texts related to the false Mortensen leak, which they never attempted to quash despite its manifest falsity), I might feel differently. But they aren't. It's a fundamentally unfair and one-sided process.

 

To reiterate, though, I do realize that the players signed onto this.

I think the circumstantial evidence suggests he lied.

 

I fully understand your point about the phones being turned over if not otherwise legally compelled. But the league has the discretion to judge whether or not this constitutes non-cooperation in a league investigation as required by rule. In light of the aforementioned circumstantial evidence against Brady, I think the league was well within the boundaries in that aspect.

 

And yes, it is the very definition of one-sided. Currently, there is only one remedy for a player to even the playing field in that regard and that is to challenge it in court. And we all know what kind of sticky wicket that can be.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[ko12010]

I get your point, but they needed to go through all that due diligence in order to justify the penalty of $1m, 1 1st in 2016, and a 4th in 2017 and suspending Brady the 4 games.

 

I just found it very fishy that seemingly overnight, Kraft goes from all the harsh rhetoric about the injustice of it all to meekly accepting the penalty. And at great risk of alienating his fan base, which he did.

 

So I don't think it's a question of the league being afraid at all. I think they made a deal with Kraft and when they end up reducing or vacating the penalty to Brady, the league will trumpet how stern they were in the form of the fine and penalties against the organization that are left standing.

 

I guess I'm just cynical.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Respectfully as well, QBs doctoring footballs is as old as the game itself. My point is that if it was about that and that alone, Brady would have received a slap on the wrist like other players have gotten for similar violations in the quest to gain a competitive edge.

 

Lying about it and refusing to cooperate broke a far bigger rule and necessitated a far bigger penalty. Again, especially in light of their previous transgressions.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I agree that not cooperating and almost definitely lying added to the penalty, and rightly so. And I find it funny that anyone seriously thinks Brady would take this to the court of law, especially Pats** fans who think this is guaranteed if Roger doesn't exonerate Brady completely. Brady would be deposed I believe and actually HAVE to hand over relevant texts/messages on his cell phone. He would no longer have the option.

 

I hope Roger calls Brady's bluff because there's no way he takes this to real court.

[K-9]

as a simpler explanation possibly.... could it be similar to the saints players fighting the punishments but coaches and team not really having any avenue to do so?

Absolutely. This too, makes a lot of sense to me.

 

In light of the Saints' ordeal, I find it ironic that they cooperated and STILL suffered the penalties.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Kelly the Dog]

I think the circumstantial evidence suggests he lied.

 

I fully understand your point about the phones being turned over if not otherwise legally compelled. But the league has the discretion to judge whether or not this constitutes non-cooperation in a league investigation as required by rule. In light of the aforementioned circumstantial evidence against Brady, I think the league was well within the boundaries in that aspect.

 

And yes, it is the very definition of one-sided. Currently, there is only one remedy for a player to even the playing field in that regard and that is to challenge it in court. And we all know what kind of sticky wicket that can be.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

We don't know the full extent of what happened when Wells interviewed Brady. My take on everything I have read which is enormous, is this:

 

Brady denied everything. He denied knowing anything about any deflating. He denied knowing McNally. When asked if they would do this on their own he said I have no idea all I know is I want the balls at 12.5. He said he was concerned about his friend when all this broke, and he spoke to Jastremski on the phone so much. He wouldn't give over his phone records.

 

Wells spoke to all kinds of people. Had the texts. He concluded its impossible Brady didn't know. It's impossible in a championship game they did this on their own. It's impossible he didn't know McNally. It's impossible the balls were not deflated somehow. It's totally implausible he would call Jastremski several days in a row at 7 am for 10-15 minutes at a time just because he was worried for a friend or bring him to a place he never brought him before. If there was anything to prove his innocence on that phone he surely would have shown it the stakes are too high.

 

So it wasn't just that he didn't turn over his texts. Well concluded this guy is lying everywhere. He's saying implausible things. He's not cooperating by withholding texts even though we went WAY out of our way to protect him. There's no explanation for the phone calls or texts. There is no chance McNally did this on his own.

 

He lied repeatedly. He obstructed. He gave implausible answers. He just denied everything when that was impossible. Those four thing together made Wells write in his report that Brady's explanation of events was implausible. That's why he got the two games for obstructing the investigation.

[Matt in KC]

I agree that not cooperating and almost definitely lying added to the penalty, and rightly so. And I find it funny that anyone seriously thinks Brady would take this to the court of law, especially Pats** fans who think this is guaranteed if Roger doesn't exonerate Brady completely. Brady would be deposed I believe and actually HAVE to hand over relevant texts/messages on his cell phone. He would no longer have the option.

 

I hope Roger calls Brady's bluff because there's no way he takes this to real court.

Assuming Brady is still suspended after the appeal, I strongly believe he will decide to "drop it". I'm curious if he uses the "for the good of the league" explanation like Kraft did. I also wonder if the NE fans will turn on him like they did Kraft.

 

Stupid question: Why does the league quickly fine players that criticize officials, but let NE so openly criticize this process and decisions? Is there specific language of what the teams are bound to? Is it limited to games?

[PromoTheRobot]

Assuming Brady is still suspended after the appeal, I strongly believe he will decide to "drop it". I'm curious if he uses the "for the good of the league" explanation like Kraft did. I also wonder if the NE fans will turn on him like they did Kraft.

 

Stupid question: Why does the league quickly fine players that criticize officials, but let NE so openly criticize this process and decisions? Is there specific language of what the teams are bound to? Is it limited to games?

Pats** = NFL's made team.

[Best Player Available]

Does Anyone think the Indy game was the first time Brady's had this done? I also,find it odd that the hoody was not aware as he claimed. he dodged a bullet.

he knows how many rolls of tp are in the supply closet. There most likely is way more to this story.

 

I also read and not there there is anything wrong with this. A great actor like Brady himself is. Nathan lane will play tom Brady in the TMC movie deflategate.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Assuming Brady is still suspended after the appeal, I strongly believe he will decide to "drop it". I'm curious if he uses the "for the good of the league" explanation like Kraft did. I also wonder if the NE fans will turn on him like they did Kraft.

 

Stupid question: Why does the league quickly fine players that criticize officials, but let NE so openly criticize this process and decisions? Is there specific language of what the teams are bound to? Is it limited to games?

I thin $1 Mil and 2 draft picks handled that

 

Imo

[Matt in KC]

I thin $1 Mil and 2 draft picks handled that

 

Imo

So if any other team/players said they don't think the Pats are being treated fairly they could get a fine like criticizing game officiating?

[PromoTheRobot]

We don't know the full extent of what happened when Wells interviewed Brady. My take on everything I have read which is enormous, is this:

 

Brady denied everything. He denied knowing anything about any deflating. He denied knowing McNally. When asked if they would do this on their own he said I have no idea all I know is I want the balls at 12.5. He said he was concerned about his friend when all this broke, and he spoke to Jastremski on the phone so much. He wouldn't give over his phone records.

 

Wells spoke to all kinds of people. Had the texts. He concluded its impossible Brady didn't know. It's impossible in a championship game they did this on their own. It's impossible he didn't know McNally. It's impossible the balls were not deflated somehow. It's totally implausible he would call Jastremski several days in a row at 7 am for 10-15 minutes at a time just because he was worried for a friend or bring him to a place he never brought him before. If there was anything to prove his innocence on that phone he surely would have shown it the stakes are too high.

 

So it wasn't just that he didn't turn over his texts. Well concluded this guy is lying everywhere. He's saying implausible things. He's not cooperating by withholding texts even though we went WAY out of our way to protect him. There's no explanation for the phone calls or texts. There is no chance McNally did this on his own.

 

He lied repeatedly. He obstructed. He gave implausible answers. He just denied everything when that was impossible. Those four thing together made Wells write in his report that Brady's explanation of events was implausible. That's why he got the two games for obstructing the investigation.

Wells was only required to show a preponderance of evidence. Yet he was attacked by the Brady/Pats** apologists for not showing a case worthy of a criminal proceeding.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Does Anyone think the Indy game was the first time Brady's had this done? I also,find it odd that the hoody was not aware as he claimed. he dodged a bullet.

he knows how many rolls of tp are in the supply closet. There most likely is way more to this story.

 

I also read and not there there is anything wrong with this. A great actor like Brady himself is. Nathan lane will play tom Brady in the TMC movie deflategate.

Not here .... if they do they must look like this guy

Of course Belicheat knows all about it. There is now way those 2 buffons texting didn't make people aware of what was happening.

So if any other team/players said they don't think the Pats are being treated fairly they could get a fine like criticizing game officiating?

depending on where and when it is said. Quite possibly. Roger has to defend the honor of the NFL

 

It may even be as simple as the team dishing out a punishment.

[KingRex]

Which is why it will be reduced down to 1 game, just in time to come back to play against us....

Though I think the impact of the decision on the Bills will have no impact on the decision, my sense is that a one game suspension will be such a repudiation decision will judged as a repudiation of Goodell that it is unlikely to happen.

 

2 games splits the baby and I think this will happen.

[Kelly the Dog]

Wells was only required to show a preponderance of evidence. Yet he was attacked by the Brady/Pats** apologists for not showing a case worthy of a criminal proceeding.

 

It was even more than that. Several legals experts and I believe Wells himself said not only was the "more probable than not" wording the same as a preponderance of evidence, what Wells was saying in his wording and his report was "He did it." Not even there is enough evidence to believe. Edited June 24, 2015 by Kelly the Dog

[ko12010]

Wells was only required to show a preponderance of evidence. Yet he was attacked by the Brady/Pats** apologists for not showing a case worthy of a criminal proceeding.

This is something Pats** fans and the general public just simply cannot grasp.

[plenzmd1]

Wells was only required to show a preponderance of evidence. Yet he was attacked by the Brady/Pats** apologists for not showing a case worthy of a criminal proceeding.

No he was not, he was only required to show " more probable than not". That is why he uses that phrase so often in the report.

 

Kelly, good points on the balls and when they were measured. Had not thought of that.

 

As I siad, I believe 100% Brady is guilty. For me, still comes back to initial press conferences of Brady and Belicheck. Brady " I get the balls all week in practise, get here 6 hours before game pick the ones I want, and no one touches them after that".

 

Belicheck" right before balls are handed over to refs, we put them through a rigorous rubbing process that could increase the PSI"

 

They are lying cheating scum, just them nailed on the stuff that can not be disputed.