Tired of Deflategate

[Kelly the Dog]

To me this comes down to a couple of very hard to overlook facts. Why did the Pats** fire Needledee and Needledum if nothing was done wrong, and why did Kraft collapse like a house of cards only days after declaring all out war on the investigation?

 

It will be mildly absurd if Brady*'s suspension is reduced, and clinically insane if it is lifted.

Yep. Brady kept to his story he had no involvement. That alone is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to believe.

[K-9]

To me this comes down to a couple of very hard to overlook facts. Why did the Pats** fire Needledee and Needledum if nothing was done wrong, and why did Kraft collapse like a house of cards only days after declaring all out war on the investigation?

 

It will be mildly absurd if Brady*'s suspension is reduced, and clinically insane if it is lifted.

I think the fix was in the moment Kraft fell on his sword of self-righteousness "for the good of the league." And after hearing Schefter talk up Brady's performance yesterday in such syrupy tones, I'm more convinced than ever that Brady's suspension will be reduced, if not vacated entirely. Schefter was just so over the top in his praise it was embarrassingly transparent.

 

I think the league will be making a mistake, too. National opinion is very heavily against the Pats and Brady, especially in light of their previous involvement in a cheating scandal.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[thebandit27]

Yep. Brady kept to his story he had no involvement. That alone is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to believe.

 

And if I remember correctly, didn't Brady claim to not even know the two ball-handlers? That claim--if indeed I'm recalling accurately--would be proven to be a lie by him surrendering any text messages or correspondence (the texts between the two putzes clearly show that they felt they knew him).

[dave mcbride]

 

And if I remember correctly, didn't Brady claim to not even know the two ball-handlers? That claim--if indeed I'm recalling accurately--would be proven to be a lie by him surrendering any text messages or correspondence (the texts between the two putzes clearly show that they felt they knew him).

As I recall, he only indicated that he did not know the name of McNally. That is entirely plausible, at least in my opinion. He never said he didn't know Jastremski.

[thebandit27]

I think the fix was in the moment Kraft fell on his sword of self-righteousness "for the good of the league." And after hearing Schefter talk up Brady's performance yesterday in such syrupy tones, I'm more convinced than ever that Brady's suspension will be reduced, if not vacated entirely. Schefter was just so over the top in his praise it was embarrassingly transparent.

 

I think the league will be making a mistake, too. National opinion is very heavily against the Pats and Brady, especially in light of their previous involvement in a cheating scandal.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

As I've said all along--he'll get 4 games (he did) that will be reduced to 2 games upon appeal (still my opinion).

 

That way, Goodell has played all sides of the table. He's suspended Brady and docked the Pats* draft picks and cash in order to placate the masses, and reduced the suspension so as to acquiesce to Tommy Boy and Mr. Kraft.

[YoloinOhio]

I don't get why brady supporters say there isn't enough evidence that he knew the balls were being deflated or in fact was ordering them to be deflated. It's obvious that the evidence is on his phone, otherwise he would have cooperated with the request for the specific info requested by Wells. That's why he is being suspended, moreso than the deflation itself. He did not cooperate with an NFL investigation.

Edited June 24, 2015 by YoloinOhio

[BuffaloHokie13]

 

And if I remember correctly, didn't Brady claim to not even know the two ball-handlers? That claim--if indeed I'm recalling accurately--would be proven to be a lie by him surrendering any text messages or correspondence (the texts between the two putzes clearly show that they felt they knew him).

You don't find it plausible that Brady knew McNally as 'The guy who rubs my balls until they feel just right'?

[negativo]

As much as I hate the Pats and Brady, I just can't get my panties in a wad about this. Seems a much ado about nearly nothing. Technically, yes, there is little doubt some kind of mischief was done that violated the rules, but this is football not golf. Every player is looking for an edge that pushes the boundaries of the rules. It'll take a lot more than a pound of hot air to get me to care. It's comparable to pine tar bats and over-curved curved sticks. A rule violation, yes, but come on...perspective people. This was not an egregious violation of the game.

 

If it turns out Tom Brady paid off the refs or illegally bet on the game I'll change my mind. Until then, a big plate of meh that quite frankly bores the **** out of me.

[Kelly the Dog]

I think the fix was in the moment Kraft fell on his sword of self-righteousness "for the good of the league." And after hearing Schefter talk up Brady's performance yesterday in such syrupy tones, I'm more convinced than ever that Brady's suspension will be reduced, if not vacated entirely. Schefter was just so over the top in his praise it was embarrassingly transparent.

 

I think the league will be making a mistake, too. National opinion is very heavily against the Pats and Brady, especially in light of their previous involvement in a cheating scandal.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Schefter said he was told by a source and then included all the ball washing. That could easily be a member of the Pats team just saying that to try to get the public on the Pats side before the edict comes down. I don't think it means anything. I have always liked Schefter but the bigger he has got the more he reports stuff like this.

[dave mcbride]

Yep. Brady kept to his story he had no involvement. That alone is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to believe.

It is impossible to believe that he had no interaction or involvement, but it is entirely possible to believe that he requested balls that had less inflation but fell within the proper range. It appears that one of his complaints was of balls that were OVERinflated (the sort of ball that Aaron Rogers preferred). Making the leap from that to an assumption of malfeasance is one of the league's basic problems. (This is aside from relying on a firm with a history of leaping to the defense of bad corporate actors. As Jesse Pinkman said to Walt as he drove him to Saul's for the first time, "You don't need a criminal lawyer. You need a CRIMINAL lawyer.")

. Edited June 24, 2015 by dave mcbride

[Doc]

I still say it won't be reduced.

[Kelly the Dog]

As I recall, he only indicated that he did not know the name of McNally. That is entirely plausible, at least in my opinion. He never said he didn't know Jastremski.

 

Wells reported that he did not find Brady's explanations to be plausible at all. You're correct he never said he didn't know Jastremski. I'm not sure we know how exactly said he didn't know McNally. It was true that he said he didn't know McNally by name. But the Wells report said Iirc that Jastremski said Brady did indeed know McNally. I find it hard to believe that Wells would turn in a report saying that when it was simply "oh sure I know that guy who is responsible for my footballs every game, I just don't know his last name." That's impossible for me to believe. I think Brady just denied everything. Saying what he did in the two press conferences.

[thebandit27]

As I recall, he only indicated that he did not know the name of McNally. That is entirely plausible, at least in my opinion. He never said he didn't know Jastremski.

 

Upon reviewing the Wells' report, that's correct (Brady said he didn't know McNally's name or his responsibilities). However, in the very next line, Jastremski says that Brady knew McNally and his role as the Officials' Locker Room attendant.

I don't get why brady supporters say there isn't enough evidence that he knew the balls were being deflated or in fact was ordering them to be deflated. It's obvious that the evidence is on his phone, otherwise he would have cooperated with the request for the specific info requested by Wells. That's why he is being suspended, moreso than the deflation itself. He did not cooperate with an NFL investigation.

 

That's definitely part of the issue, and one that can't be reconciled IMO.

 

You don't find it plausible that Brady knew McNally as 'The guy who rubs my balls until they feel just right'?

 

See above...no.

 

As much as I hate the Pats and Brady, I just can't get my panties in a wad about this. Seems a much ado about nearly nothing. Technically, yes, there is little doubt some kind of mischief was done that violated the rules, but this is football not golf. Every player is looking for an edge that pushes the boundaries of the rules. It'll take a lot more than a pound of hot air to get me to care. It's comparable to pine tar bats and over-curved curved sticks. A rule violation, yes, but come on...perspective people. This was not an egregious violation of the game.

 

If it turns out Tom Brady paid off the refs or illegally bet on the game I'll change my mind. Until then, a big plate of meh that quite frankly bores the **** out of me.

 

If it didn't affect the game in their favor, they wouldn't do it. Do I really think it makes a huge difference? No. Thing is, it's not an isolated incident. This organization has a pattern of skirting the rules and thumbing their nose at the NFL in the face of resulting criticism.

[K-9]

 

 

As I've said all along--he'll get 4 games (he did) that will be reduced to 2 games upon appeal (still my opinion).

 

That way, Goodell has played all sides of the table. He's suspended Brady and docked the Pats* draft picks and cash in order to placate the masses, and reduced the suspension so as to acquiesce to Tommy Boy and Mr. Kraft.

Knowing the premium Bellyache places on divisional games, I think Kraft lobbied hard for the penalty to be no more than one game.

 

I wonder if the league really appreciates the dichotomy that exists regarding the Patriots*. There's New England and then the rest of the country, it seems.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Schefter said he was told by a source and then included all the ball washing. That could easily be a member of the Pats team just saying that to try to get the public on the Pats side before the edict comes down. I don't think it means anything. I have always liked Schefter but the bigger he has got the more he reports stuff like this.

Could just as easily be an NFL guy that leaked that, too, in an effort to grease the skids.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Kelly the Dog]

It is impossible to believe that he had no interaction or involvement, but it is entirely possible to believe that he requested balls that had less inflation but fell within the proper range.

No, that's not possible. He has stated repeatedly, Belichick did, and Jastremski did, that the Patriots want the balls at the lowest possible legal amount. Which is 12.5. That is irrefutable. They tell the officials before the game what they want the balls at, and they always say 12.5. The officials then measure each ball before the game and set it themselves at 12.5. If it measures exactly 12.5 they don't let air in or out.

 

The texts between Jastremski and McNally make zero sense if they are talking about before the game and before giving the balls to the officials. They only make sense in what McNally was shown to do, take the balls, which are all at 12.5, and then deflate them more. Which he did in the bathroom.

[K-9]

I don't get why brady supporters say there isn't enough evidence that he knew the balls were being deflated or in fact was ordering them to be deflated. It's obvious that the evidence is on his phone, otherwise he would have cooperated with the request for the specific info requested by Wells. That's why he is being suspended, moreso than the deflation itself. He did not cooperate with an NFL investigation.

You can expect a stern rebuke from WEO in this regard.

 

Anyway, denial is an interesting psychological phenomenon. Brady supporters are literally INCAPABLE of accepting circumstantial evidence as evidence.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Kelly the Dog]

Knowing the premium Bellyache places on divisional games, I think Kraft lobbied hard for the penalty to be no more than one game.

 

I wonder if the league really appreciates the dichotomy that exists regarding the Patriots*. There's New England and then the rest of the country, it seems.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Could just as easily be an NFL guy that leaked that, too, in an effort to grease the skids.

 

GO BILLS!!!

If the NFL wanted to do that they never would have gone through the entire seven months and $5m. They are not scared of Brady or going to court. There is no reason to be.

[K-9]

As much as I hate the Pats and Brady, I just can't get my panties in a wad about this. Seems a much ado about nearly nothing. Technically, yes, there is little doubt some kind of mischief was done that violated the rules, but this is football not golf. Every player is looking for an edge that pushes the boundaries of the rules. It'll take a lot more than a pound of hot air to get me to care. It's comparable to pine tar bats and over-curved curved sticks. A rule violation, yes, but come on...perspective people. This was not an egregious violation of the game.

 

If it turns out Tom Brady paid off the refs or illegally bet on the game I'll change my mind. Until then, a big plate of meh that quite frankly bores the **** out of me.

You miss the point. The deflation of footballs is not the big issue. It's the lying about it and refusal to cooperate. The old "coverup is bigger than the crime" thing.

 

If you still think that lying and not cooperating in league investigations as is required BY RULE, is much ado about nearly nothing, then so be it. But this transcends the age-old idea of a player simply doing something to gain a little competitive edge. Especially in light of their previous transgressions.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[ko12010]

 

Upon reviewing the Wells' report, that's correct (Brady said he didn't know McNally's name or his responsibilities). However, in the very next line, Jastremski says that Brady knew McNally and his role as the Officials' Locker Room attendant.

 

That's definitely part of the issue, and one that can't be reconciled IMO.

 

 

See above...no.

 

 

If it didn't affect the game in their favor, they wouldn't do it. Do I really think it makes a huge difference? No. Thing is, it's not an isolated incident. This organization has a pattern of skirting the rules and thumbing their nose at the NFL in the face of resulting criticism.

This is my argument. You can't view this act of deflating a football as one isolated act when there is evidence that strongly shows the Pats** have been deflating footballs since 2007. If you want to argue that deflating game balls one time, despite being cheating, isn't a gigantic offense, I'd be inclined to agree somewhat, although games are turned on one or two plays many times and having those plays go in your favor is huge. But who seriously thinks the Colts game was an isolated incident? When viewed over a period of 8 years, systematically deflating footballs is a monstrous offense.

You miss the point. The deflation of footballs is not the big issue. It's the lying about it and refusal to cooperate. The old "coverup is bigger than the crime" thing.

 

If you still think that lying and not cooperating in league investigations as is required BY RULE, is much ado about nearly nothing, then so be it. But this transcends the age-old idea of a player simply doing something to gain a little competitive edge. Especially in light of their previous transgressions.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I totally disagree with this, respectfully. Deflating footballs makes it easier to throw, catch, and hold onto the football. Just because there is one anomaly, Aaron Rodgers, who likes them hard and blown up, doesn't refute this fact. I seriously don't get how anyone can downplay the act of deflating game balls. Just pure cheating. There wouldn't be ball handling rules and a system if this wasn't something important to regulate.

[K-9]

If the NFL wanted to do that they never would have gone through the entire seven months and $5m. They are not scared of Brady or going to court. There is no reason to be.

I get your point, but they needed to go through all that due diligence in order to justify the penalty of $1m, 1 1st in 2016, and a 4th in 2017 and suspending Brady the 4 games.

 

I just found it very fishy that seemingly overnight, Kraft goes from all the harsh rhetoric about the injustice of it all to meekly accepting the penalty. And at great risk of alienating his fan base, which he did.

 

So I don't think it's a question of the league being afraid at all. I think they made a deal with Kraft and when they end up reducing or vacating the penalty to Brady, the league will trumpet how stern they were in the form of the fine and penalties against the organization that are left standing.

 

I guess I'm just cynical.

 

GO BILLS!!!

This is my argument. You can't view this act of deflating a football as one isolated act when there is evidence that strongly shows the Pats** have been deflating footballs since 2007. If you want to argue that deflating game balls one time, despite being cheating, isn't a gigantic offense, I'd be inclined to agree somewhat, although games are turned on one or two plays many times and having those plays go in your favor is huge. But who seriously thinks the Colts game was an isolated incident? When viewed over a period of 8 years, systematically deflating footballs is a monstrous offense.

I totally disagree with this, respectfully. Deflating footballs makes it easier to throw, catch, and hold onto the football. Just because there is one anomaly, Aaron Rodgers, who likes them hard and blown up, doesn't refute this fact. I seriously don't get how anyone can downplay the act of deflating game balls. Just pure cheating. There wouldn't be ball handling rules and a system if this wasn't something important to regulate.

Respectfully as well, QBs doctoring footballs is as old as the game itself. My point is that if it was about that and that alone, Brady would have received a slap on the wrist like other players have gotten for similar violations in the quest to gain a competitive edge.

 

Lying about it and refusing to cooperate broke a far bigger rule and necessitated a far bigger penalty. Again, especially in light of their previous transgressions.

 

GO BILLS!!!