Mikie2times Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) 2004 was the last year I really thought we should have made the playoffs. Football Outsiders had that team as the highest DVOA team to not make the playoffs since they collected data (1989). I remember that season very clearly and we just destroyed anything average and lost some real heartbreakers early. Obviously it ended in the devastating home loss on Willie Parker day in Buffalo. So who do you think should be better based on your opinion right now? QB- Bledsoe= 2004 Team Drew was under a 80 QBR and was nothing to be proud of. Only reason I'm giving him the nod is for his deep ball and the current futility of the 2015 squad. RB- McGahee/Henry= 2015 Team It isn't exactly a position of weakness on either squad, but McCoy is more dynamic compared to Willis and I'll take Fred and his old but fresh legs over Henry. WR- Moulds, Evans, Reed= Draw I would take Moulds and Evans (Rookie year) over Watkins and Harvin right now. That's a very close discussion; I just think Moulds was more polished compared to Sammy as he was a vet. Evans was a difficult deep threat with Bledsoe. Percy is more versatile and also a great deep threat. I just haven't seen big production since his breakout year and I don't know if we have a stretch the field QB. I have a draw because as you pass those two names the 2015 squad has more depth in Woods and Hogan. I think both are highly underrated. TE- Cambell=2015 Team I don’t think I need to go into this one much OL- Jennings, Smith, Tucker, Teague, Williams= Draw My biggest concern, I just think we keep following the same pattern of skill positions over lineman. DL- Kelsay, Schobel, Adams, Williams= 2015 Both defensive lines could/can completely dominate. I give a nod to the 2015 squad because of superior edge pass rushing LB's- Fletcher, Spikes, Posey= 2004 Spikes and Fletcher destroyed players in 2004. During the prolonged winning streak, they dominated. DB's- McGee, Clements, Milloy, Reese= Draw Clements was in his prime and made the pro bowl. McGee was very solid and Milloy completed a well-rounded squad. Very close and hard to make a decision either way. Special teams-=I don't know… I expect the 2015 Bills ST to be very good, but keep in mind the 2004 squad ranked #1 in the league in DVOA. Nod to the 2015 Bills at Kicker. Coaching-=2015 We had a good overall staff in 2004 but Rex beats Mularkey hands down. I also think the overall staff of the 2015 squad is very strong. Verdict- I would have to lean to the 2015 squad by a slight margin. That is with a lot of respect to the 2004 squad as well, specifically the defense which I think was one of the better Bills defenses of all time. Edited July 23, 2015 by KzooMike
EmotionallyUnstable Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 Interesting. Since that year they finished 9-7, third in the division and short of a playoff birth, I'm going to have to say 2015 because I expect more than that this year. Nice job on the talent comparison. Only thing that I'd argue is the WR, which I believe was better in 2004 that it will be now (due to the offensive focus on McCoy and lack of QB)
Mr. WEO Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 The DBs in 2004 in their prime far superior to what we have seen in our DBs to date.
Mikie2times Posted July 23, 2015 Author Posted July 23, 2015 I was also leaning 2004 on DB's and WR's but it's pretty close and wanted to avoid this turning into a neg nancy thread. Potential/depth, that could swing either group to favor the 2015 squad, but at this phase it is not as established as those positions had been entering 2004.
Mango Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 Moulds is far better than our top two WR now, and they aren't slouches. But Watkins and Harvin are way better than Evans ever was. It's a tough choice. I think I side with 2015 there. You give a lot of credit to the 2004 DL, but not one of those guys would start on this line. They are hands down better. It's not close.
DC Greg Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 Nice thread. I think you're being a little kind to 2004 on the DL comparison. That was a good DL, no doubt, but our D line is leagues better now, and it's not close.
BillsPride12 Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 Nice thread. I think you're being a little kind to 2004 on the DL comparison. That was a good DL, no doubt, but our D line is leagues better now, and it's not close. We had good Defensive tackles in 2004 but our Ends were awful(ok Schoebol wasn't awful but def overrated by Bills fans). As a whole our defensive line is light years ahead of 2004
Dorkington Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 Scheoebol was good. That's not overrating him. He's not a hall of famer, but he was still certainly above average.
Steve Billieve Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 I'm not sure that I agree with all of those comparisons, especially at WR, but the big difference I see in this years squad compared to 04 is our depth!
Mikie2times Posted July 23, 2015 Author Posted July 23, 2015 Moulds is far better than our top two WR now, and they aren't slouches. But Watkins and Harvin are way better than Evans ever was. It's a tough choice. I think I side with 2015 there. You give a lot of credit to the 2004 DL, but not one of those guys would start on this line. They are hands down better. It's not close. Agree on Moulds, don't really understand why your comparing Watkins to Evans, Harvin is the comparison, 2 vs 2, and I disagree that Harvin is WAY better vs Evans was his rookie year. Evans was ridiculously explosive when he had Drew's long ball. Harvin hasn't produced a solid season in a long time. It's certainly a conversation, could go either way, but it's not definitive. Pat Williams was dominating as a run cog and Adams had a fantastic season that year. He did not fade into the abyss until later. Nice thread. I think you're being a little kind to 2004 on the DL comparison. That was a good DL, no doubt, but our D line is leagues better now, and it's not close. I don't think I am really, but it's a comparative opinion based post so we could do back and fourth forever. Schobel gave us 10 sacks a year, P. Williams was a dominating run stopper, and S. Adams was penetrating like crazy and disrupting everything that season. I think Schobel compares to Hughes in production. I understand MD and KW are both elite as well, but between the two Williams options I don't see it being as cut and dry as you put it. In fact I would take PW vs KW. The nod goes to the 2015, but that 2004 line was still a dominating presence and opened up our exceptional LB's to roam free. I'm not sure that I agree with all of those comparisons, especially at WR, but the big difference I see in this years squad compared to 04 is our depth! I agree with this completely. The depth on the 2015 squad is way better. That could play a huge role with how injuries tend to play out, especially for us.
Marv's Neighbor Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 I'd go for 2015 IF they can stay out of jail/trouble.
Steve Billieve Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 Depth isn't just an issue when players get injured, as they inevitably will, but also when they under perform be it in a season or even just a game. You hear the coaching staff talk a lot about guys that can contribute, it seems like the media likes to ignore its significance.
Mikie2times Posted July 24, 2015 Author Posted July 24, 2015 Depth isn't just an issue when players get injured, as they inevitably will, but also when they under perform be it in a season or even just a game. You hear the coaching staff talk a lot about guys that can contribute, it seems like the media likes to ignore its significanceaGREE Agreed, lots of advantages. Practice, under perfromance, injury. I think it becomes even more important for teams without an elite QB, even more, without a named starter.
.thumb.png.1b7fb4086290c3afc001a7900b31fab0.png)
Recommended Posts