BarleyNY Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 How would you have rated the Hughes trade before he even stepped on the field? There were a LOT of people outside of Buffalo that thought the Mario signing was horrible. How about we at least wait until McCoy and Clay play a game before we assess the merits of those moves? The Bills overpaid for Mario, but a team can do that on one free agent player (maybe two if they also draft well). He is an excellent player and plays a marquee position. The move set a tone and showed the Bills were serious about winning. I'm fine with it as an individual move, but you can't build a team that way. As for Clay and Shady, sure they haven't played a game with the Bills yet. But the Bills FO made decisions about what value to put on each of them when they traded for Shady and gave both huge new deals. I don't see why the fans shouldn't be able to make judgement calls on those moves now too. IMO they gave up and/or paid too much for both especially not knowing how well either will fit into the systems in Buffalo. Clay is a projection in any system with a ton guaranteed money to boot. And neither play a marquee position. Some moves are bad bets whether or not they pay off. I like that your examples of poor moves haven't gotten a chance to play yet. Not to say they will work out but you probably could've gone with C Williams instead. C. Williams certainly qualifies.
eball Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 You can never have enough low cost fan favorite LBs, that's for sure. And if they've already had two torn ACLs it's even better!
thebandit27 Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 You can never have enough low cost fan favorite LBs, that's for sure. And if they've already had two torn ACLs it's even better! The part that I find so odd about the OP's line of logic is this: the team obviously needed a RB, so they used assets to get one. The asset they used was a guy that we can definitively say they didn't need; he missed the entire 2014 season and the defense got better without him.
eball Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 The part that I find so odd about the OP's line of logic is this: the team obviously needed a RB, so they used assets to get one. The asset they used was a guy that we can definitively say they didn't need; he missed the entire 2014 season and the defense got better without him. As soon as I saw who started the thread I knew not to take it seriously. "enlightener" may be the most comically ironic screen name on this board.
Justice Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 The salary cap is a joke and could easily be manipulated. The Dolphins started this season off in cap hell and yet they managed to sign the biggest and most expensive free agent out there in Suh.
thebandit27 Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 The salary cap is a joke and could easily be manipulated. The Dolphins started this season off in cap hell and yet they managed to sign the biggest and most expensive free agent out there in Suh. For a single season perhaps...the problem is that eventually the cap must be dealt with. Using Miami as an example: they already have $162M in contracts committed to 60 players for 2016. If we assume a cap of $150M, that puts them $12M over the cap today, without considering the cost of draft picks and that they'll have guys like Olivier Vernon and Lamar Miller to re-sign. They're looking at having to cut $17M in payroll. Can it be done? Absolutely, but not without watching some vets (like perhaps Reshad Jones, Jordan Cameron, and/or Brent Grimes) walk out the door.
Nanker Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 It's not a joke. It's pliable. The Bills could free up $80 million in cap space next year by cutting 20 or so players. Of that I'm 66.33 % absolutely certain. I think. Maybe.
Gugny Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 I think the trade was a poor idea. Better off having kept Alonso. At least for a RB. McCoy is going to disappoint everyone. He will get yards because they have to feed him the ball a ton but he won't be different in many ways then spiller Alonso .... meh.
Maury Ballstein Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 As soon as I saw who started the thread I knew not to take it seriously. "enlightener" may be the most comically ironic screen name on this board. Check out his work as a Stevie/Sammy. "Stan"
GunnerBill Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 Yep. If we could find a Quarterback in next year's draft then keep kicking the can for 2-3 years to have talent around him whilst he develops hopefully we can then manage the tricky task of slowly stripping that supporting cast away as you need to pay your QB more and ask him to start winning you games himself more often.
roamingbuffalofan Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 I agree with you. While it seems like a good trade right now, the long-term implications will prove this trade to be a bad move. We will see a good player walk that could impact this team for significantly longer term than McCoy will. If the Bills don't make the playoffs this year, the trade for McCoy will look even worse. Running backs are easy to come by, good offensive linemen and corners are not and we will lose one because of McCoy. Also, McCoy is a proven running back in an entirely different scheme with a significantly better o-line, so there's question marks there as well. Time will tell, and I hope I'm wrong but a couple years from now I think we regret the McCoy trade. People like to say RB's are a dime a dozen... but elite RB's are not, which McCoy is. Would you have let AP walk in his prime b/c you had the option to draft Karlos Williams? I doubt it.
Rocky Landing Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 The part that I find so odd about the OP's line of logic is this: the team obviously needed a RB, so they used assets to get one. The asset they used was a guy that we can definitively say they didn't need; he missed the entire 2014 season and the defense got better without him. I think that Alonzo, had he not been injured, would not have had as stellar a year as he did under Pettine, much in the same way Robey was suited to Pettine's D. But, he might have had a standout year under Ryan. Be that as it may, we acquired an elite RB because we couldn't acquire an elite QB. I know some on here think of Spiller as elite. I don't think he is. But, we now have elite players at every offensive skill position, save the QB. When we get an opportunity for an elite QB, then we'll figure out how to restructure for that eventuality.
thebandit27 Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 Yep. If we could find a Quarterback in next year's draft then keep kicking the can for 2-3 years to have talent around him whilst he develops hopefully we can then manage the tricky task of slowly stripping that supporting cast away as you need to pay your QB more and ask him to start winning you games himself more often. That would certainly be the model...of course, staying competitive requires restocking the cupboard on the fly, so they'll need to (continue to) draft well in all other spots too.
YattaOkasan Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 What I see happening is opponents with good D lines needing only 6 in the box to stop the run, so regardless of the talent level of our WRs there will be abundant pass defenders to prevent our QBs from hitting quick routes to escape pressure. I can not disagree with this enough. I assume the counting game is how our QBs will live actually. If there are >7 in the box throw it. If there are =<7 in the box then run the ball. I think Roman averages >1 TE on the field per snap so thats >6 blockers on the field per snap. I don't think playing nickel against us will be very successful (except in obvious passing downs).
YoloinOhio Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) People like to say RB's are a dime a dozen... but elite RB's are not, which McCoy is. Would you have let AP walk in his prime b/c you had the option to draft Karlos Williams? I doubt it. Even then... teams with a dynamic passing game/elite QB can get away with a lesser talent at RB because the passing lanes will be open as the D is scared of the QB. A team like us? Not so much. If they want to open up the passing game for a young QB they need a RB who scares the defense. They got one. They got one of the BEST ones. It makes me laugh when I hear someone talk about rhe Pats model and they just plug any RB and WR in there and it doesn't matter and that's the formula, and the Bills are wasting their time and money on these highly talented skill playmakers. If they didn't have Tom Brady, they wouldn't be able to do that. If you are developing a young QB you have to give him playmakers if you want to win. Edited July 23, 2015 by YoloinOhio
Justice Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) For a single season perhaps...the problem is that eventually the cap must be dealt with. Using Miami as an example: they already have $162M in contracts committed to 60 players for 2016. If we assume a cap of $150M, that puts them $12M over the cap today, without considering the cost of draft picks and that they'll have guys like Olivier Vernon and Lamar Miller to re-sign. They're looking at having to cut $17M in payroll. Can it be done? Absolutely, but not without watching some vets (like perhaps Reshad Jones, Jordan Cameron, and/or Brent Grimes) walk out the door. Jordan Cameron's cap figure for next year is $9.5M alone. Rashad Jones another 6 and Dion Maybin another 6. Release these guys and restructure one or two contracts and they'll be in good shape. Remember this, Suh's cap hit is $28M next year so they could afford to push their cap problems into 2017. Edited July 23, 2015 by Justice
8-8 Forever? Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 the more i look at the future we face regarding cuts etc, the more the mccoy trade looks like a horrible move, not due to talent or ability etc, but from a roster and financial standpoint. 1. after we complained for years about our tackle position, as well as our corners, looks like we will have to cut either glenn or gilmore. ok maybe its mckelvin or maybe its bradham after already losing kiko, or cutting fred early or shudder maybe even Mario. 2. We traded a low-cost fan favorite linebacker for a 16 milllion dollar RB right before we have to resign 4 starters. And didnt we try the premier running back route for the last 15 years? How far did we get with Antowain, Mcgahee, Lynch or Spiller??? the most productive runner we had was 2nd rounder travis henry anyway. So now instead of drafting RB in the first, we trade a 2nd, and will lose one of our 1sts (gilmore dareus or glenn) next year, all for the joy of having a top tier running back in his 6th year. 3. We finally have 5 high talent receiving options, both tackles solidified, and weak guards, so we decide on a run first offense? things got worse not better when we spent a 5th on carlos williams. this would have worked out fine if we hadnt gotten shady. But now it forces a cut of either fred or brown and if its brown, it means we wasted a 4rth and will never know what brown could have done here. If its fred, we lose fred, nuff said. we overstocked at a position we really didnt need and by next year,in the end it will end up costing us a 1st, 2nd, and 4rth round pick. the combination will be either... Kiko, fred, & gilmore or.... kiko, brown, & glenn or possibly even a.... kiko, mckelvin, bradham and Fred combination or maybe we just lose Mario either way, it was a bad move. Go Bills! man the offseason is slow. "set the team back"? this team is currently "set back" and the new management for once is making every effort to "move forward" . they can't get any more "set.... back..". man the offseason is slow. I wonder it there is intelligent life over at RealFootball365 any more. probably not.
thebandit27 Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 Jordan Cameron's cap figure for next year is $9.5M alone. Rashad Jones another 6 and Dion Maybin another 6. Release these guys and restructure one or two contracts and they'll be in good shape. Remember this, Suh's cap hit is $28M next year so they could afford to push their cap problems into 2017. That's exactly my point: you're talking about the cap being "a joke", and yet your plan for managing it is to release the starting TE, starting FS, and a former No. 3 overall pick. I would say that's a direct impact of the cap.
BuffaloMatt Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 I guess I will just never get on board with worrying about the salary cap. I'm too busy worrying about winning games. The cap is fluid and so is our payroll. Teams find ways to pay players they want to keep. It is useless to worry about how they will do it, at least for me. They pay people a lot if money to figure it out. I feel like it's a waste of time for the average fan. I only care about whether the product on the field is good. But to each his or her own. Amen to that!!
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