Tiberius Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 So even with your admitted reluctance to aspects of Bernie's "plan," you still opine that folks disagree due to a white/non-white dichotomy and that Bernie "makes too much sense?" I mean, it doesn't sound like you're leery about "free" college because you're afraid of the non-whites. Ya, I was focused more on the universal health care aspect of it which has been opposed for years which would help even many of Trump's supporters, but they are attracted to the Wall, deportation and closing Mosques
Dorkington Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 I'm not clear on the 'free college' idea... but I know I'd like to see community college and trade schools be free to low/middle-low income earners. Public universities should also be more accessible, but I'd rather see any price cuts/free tuition go towards degrees of function, vs liberal arts. Handing out degrees for art history isn't really going to provide much back into the economy compared to other majors. Also, we need to make some major investments in infrastructure and clean energy production, both areas that can create jobs as well, and we'd need people trained for that as well. So, long story short, while I like the idea of making post secondary education more accessible to more people, I also don't want to see it 'wasted' on degrees of low economic function. Not sure if that disqualifies me from being a socialist or not
TakeYouToTasker Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) I'm not clear on the 'free college' idea... but I know I'd like to see community college and trade schools be free to low/middle-low income earners. Public universities should also be more accessible, but I'd rather see any price cuts/free tuition go towards degrees of function, vs liberal arts. Handing out degrees for art history isn't really going to provide much back into the economy compared to other majors. Also, we need to make some major investments in infrastructure and clean energy production, both areas that can create jobs as well, and we'd need people trained for that as well. So, long story short, while I like the idea of making post secondary education more accessible to more people, I also don't want to see it 'wasted' on degrees of low economic function. Not sure if that disqualifies me from being a socialist or not Again, making college education more accessible isn't going to make it cheaper. It will make it more expensive, as having the government make the payment for even more educations makes colleges even less accountable for controlling costs, as it works to further eliminate the market forces which would otherwise drive costs down. Costs will continue to rise under this model, and will simply always be passed along, nearly unaccountably, to the tax payer. Additionally, this creates an environment where students are completely unaccountable to the costs they are creating for tax payers. When students and their families don't bear the burden of the costs of education, they are more likely to not complete their education as they have no financial stake in what they have purchased, so it's easier to walk away. This also doesn't address that saturation of the college degree market, which reduces it's value to employers, and drives down salaries. When everyone has a degree, a degree has no value. It also serves to create minimum hiring standards, where immigrants and high school dropouts have zero access to the economy, creating a permanent underclass. Can you address those problems please? Edited January 26, 2016 by TakeYouToTasker
Chef Jim Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 I'm not big on the free college thing. I'm more concerned about health care. I think it is an evil we can and don't provide health care to our people. I don't know about education in the long run because I don't know how quickly the economy will change and make degrees useless. I would seriously rather have the government create jobs instead of turning out more degrees, but I'm sure that would cause other problems. So I'd be careful about free college myself What types of jobs would you like to see the government create and how would you imagine their creation?
Joe Miner Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 Again, making college education more accessible isn't going to make it cheaper. It will make it more expensive, as having the government make the payment for even more educations makes colleges even less accountable for controlling costs, as it works to further eliminate the market forces which would otherwise drive costs down. Costs will continue to rise under this model, and will simply always be passed along, nearly unaccountably, to the tax payer. Additionally, this creates an environment where students are completely unaccountable to the costs they are creating for tax payers. When students and their families don't bear the burden of the costs of education, they are more likely to not complete their education as they have no financial stake in what they have purchased, so it's easier to walk away. This also doesn't address that saturation of the college degree market, which reduces it's value to employers, and drives down salaries. When everyone has a degree, a degree has no value. It also serves to create minimum hiring standards, where immigrants and high school dropouts have zero access to the economy, creating a permanent underclass. Can you address those problems please? Might have some interesting effects on social security down the line as well. More young people staying in school longer but still looking to retire at the same point in life.
Chef Jim Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 Might have some interesting effects on social security down the line as well. More young people staying in school longer but still looking to retire at the same point in life. Retirement ages are going to have to change. Not just with SS but any retirement plans. 65 will soon be a thing of the past.
Joe Miner Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 Retirement ages are going to have to change. Not just with SS but any retirement plans. 65 will soon be a thing of the past. Why are you trying to kill Grandma??? That being said, retirement ages need to changed now based on today's numbers. If kids don't start getting into the workforce for another 4-6 years in the future because they're going to college, they will need to change even more than they currently do. You'll be looking at 75-80 to retire at that point.
Tiberius Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 What types of jobs would you like to see the government create and how would you imagine their creation? Raise taxes and create infrastructure
Chef Jim Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 Raise taxes and create infrastructure So only infrastructure jobs? What about when the infrastructure is in good shape? What work do those people do then? And why do they need more money for that? Are you certain the budget can't be rearranged to fit in infrastructure jobs? Isn't that what a lot of the money from the stimulus was for? What happened to all that money? Wow....look at all those !@#$ing question marks.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 BER NIE BER NIE BER NIE I want this son of a B word to firebomb this whole campaign, win in Iowa and NH.
Tiberius Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 1) So only infrastructure jobs? 2) What about when the infrastructure is in good shape? 3) What work do those people do then? 4) And why do they need more money for that? 5) Are you certain the budget can't be rearranged to fit in infrastructure jobs? 6) Isn't that what a lot of the money from the stimulus was for? 7)What happened to all that money? 8) Wow....look at all those !@#$ing question marks. 1) No 2) Then we can create more u p to date stuff 3) Things 4) To pay for it 5) You mean cut some government jobs to fund others? 6) That's been spent long ago 7) It went into this really, really big thing we call the "economy," you should look it up some time 8) And you still haven't made an argument. What did I say about your inability to make an argument? <------- a question back
keepthefaith Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 Raise taxes and create infrastructure How much of an increase and do all pay these increased taxes?
Deranged Rhino Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 7) It went into this really, really big thing we call the "economy," you should look it up some time
Tiberius Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 How much of an increase and do all pay these increased taxes? Not sure exactly but it would be a progressive tax unless it was a gas tax to pay for roads or something
Chef Jim Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 1) No Then what other jobs? 2) Then we can create more u p to date stuff Stuff? So you got nothing as usual 3) Things So you got nothing here either. 4) To pay for it Still nothing 5) You mean cut some government jobs to fund others? So the only way to free up money with our government is to cut jobs? So you truly thing there is no waste in the government? 6) That's been spent long ago On what? 7) It went into this really, really big thing we call the "economy," you should look it up some time No I'm talking about the $50bil earmarked for infrastructure in the ARRA. Remember those "shovel ready jobs"? 8) And you still haven't made an argument. What did I say about your inability to make an argument? <------- a question back Oh I've made a very thorough argument. The argument is that you don't know what the !@#$ you're talking about. unless it was a gas tax to pay for roads or something We have that in CA. It's $.12 per gallon and our roads suck big time.
Deranged Rhino Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 We have that in CA. It's $.12 per gallon and our roads suck big time. Shocking that Gator doesn't know what he's talking about. Shocking I say. I mean, when he drops gems like this: "(The stimulus) went into this really, really big thing we call the "economy," you should look it up some time " you know you're dealing with a man (?) who doesn't know his ass from a hat. "The economy" is a singular entity in Gator's world view, a world view that's so simplistic he thinks he's dropping knowledge on us when he's really just dropping trou.
Chef Jim Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 Shocking that Gator doesn't know what he's talking about. Shocking I say. I mean, when he drops gems like this: "(The stimulus) went into this really, really big thing we call the "economy," you should look it up some time " you know you're dealing with a man (?) who doesn't know his ass from a hat. "The economy" is a singular entity in Gator's world view, a world view that's so simplistic he thinks he's dropping knowledge on us when he's really just dropping trou. And regarding the gas tax Grampa Simpson....I mean Jerry Brown is begging for money and wants to raise that and registration fees......I mean taxes to improve our infrastructure. All they need is more.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 After watching the Democratic town hall last night I would have bet it was Bernie Sanders that was Canadian.
Chef Jim Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 After watching the Democratic town hall last night I would have bet it was Bernie Sanders that was Canadian. He's from Vermont. Same thing.
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