unbillievable Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 1: Worker Co-ops 2: ??? 3: Utopia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 You're right. I do understand it, and just think that the questions being asked by some posters are passive-aggression, and not worth my time No, you don't. You have a shallow, idealistic view of it that in no way translates to reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Is there any liberal policy that takes reality into consideration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Is there any liberal policy that takes reality into consideration? Well...yes. The problem is that the solutions often don't - they see problem, but think the solution is to turn the problem upside-down rather than eliminate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who is Yuri? Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Ridiculous. You've been afforded an opportunity to make a case for one of your candidate's signature plans for the US, and the bottom line is that you don't understand it fully, but prefer it to anything else because...somehow the way people have been starting up their own businesses for the past umpteen centuries doesn't make everyone feel good about themselves? That's what I've gotten from the exchange. I'll remember not to engage you the next time you trumpet one of Doc Brown's policies. The only reason it was brought up is that it was cherry-picked from Sanders' senate site as an example of communism. I don't need to advance co-ops as superior and don't want to. They have their merits, such as attendence and self worth, which have been mocked. Why hang out with dicks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 The only reason it was brought up is that it was cherry-picked from Sanders' senate site as an example of communism. I don't need to advance co-ops as superior and don't want to. They have their merits, such as attendence and self worth, which have been mocked. Why hang out with dicks? Because you are all out of lollipops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who is Yuri? Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I gave up Ayn Rand for Bernie Sanders: How I grew up and traded libertarianism for a progressive socialist" http://www.salon.com/2015/07/20/why_libertarians_should_love_bernie_sanders/ Quote: For too long, the anger and passion has been driven by Tea Party types and libertarians. Their solution seems to be throwing more gasoline on a trailer-park fire. Inequality? Cut taxes for the wealthy and implement a flat tax. Poverty? Eliminate the social safety net and cut food stamps. Those not actively making problems worse are obsessed with non-stories and fictitious scandals, featuring Benghazi, Jade Helm, e-mail servers or any of the other innumerable, invented outrages. Even issues I care deeply about, like prison reform, can distract. Our country grows more lopsided by the day, and despite big wins on gay marriage and health care, too many trends are moving in the wrong direction. Are we a society that works for people or are we in something like feudalism, where corporations and private organization all but own their employees? The current problem with politics, the economy and culture comes from treating human beings like just another business asset to be exploited or replaced. We say a persons value is what the market will bear, and if the market has no use for a particular human, he or she has no inherent worth. Thats pretty sick. Should we just let them starve to death? For the radical right, the answer is an enthusiastic absolutely. If all else fails, deport them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I gave up Ayn Rand for Bernie Sanders: How I grew up and traded libertarianism for a progressive socialist" http://www.salon.com/2015/07/20/why_libertarians_should_love_bernie_sanders/ Quote: For too long, the anger and passion has been driven by Tea Party types and libertarians. Their solution seems to be throwing more gasoline on a trailer-park fire. Inequality? Cut taxes for the wealthy and implement a flat tax. Poverty? Eliminate the social safety net and cut food stamps. Those not actively making problems worse are obsessed with non-stories and fictitious scandals, featuring Benghazi, Jade Helm, e-mail servers or any of the other innumerable, invented outrages. Even issues I care deeply about, like prison reform, can distract. Our country grows more lopsided by the day, and despite big wins on gay marriage and health care, too many trends are moving in the wrong direction. Are we a society that works for people or are we in something like feudalism, where corporations and private organization all but own their employees? The current problem with politics, the economy and culture comes from treating human beings like just another business asset to be exploited or replaced. We say a persons value is what the market will bear, and if the market has no use for a particular human, he or she has no inherent worth. Thats pretty sick. Should we just let them starve to death? For the radical right, the answer is an enthusiastic absolutely. If all else fails, deport them. this distills pages and pages of posts by those you are arguing with. pretty awesome passage there. he doesn't tackle the question of why these folks hold these beliefs. in many cases, i'd be willing to bet they wouldn't do so well under such scenarios. for people that seem so motivated by self interest, that's counter intuitive. perhaps it's explained by grandiose delusions…narcissism is endemic here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 this distills pages and pages of posts by those you are arguing with. pretty awesome passage there. he doesn't tackle the question of why these folks hold these beliefs. in many cases, i'd be willing to bet they wouldn't do so well under such scenarios. for people that seem so motivated by self interest, that's counter intuitive. perhaps it's explained by grandiose delusions…narcissism is endemic here. Projecting much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) The only reason it was brought up is that it was cherry-picked from Sanders' senate site as an example of communism. I don't need to advance co-ops as superior and don't want to. They have their merits, such as attendence and self worth, which have been mocked. Why hang out with dicks? Nobody mocked the value of attendance and self worth. We mocked the leap of faith that a co-op you can not even define is a good idea because people increase their work attendance and self worth when they have a vested interest in a company. It's like saying the Colonel's 11 herbs and spices are good because chicken has protein. Here's why the overall concept was mocked: because there is no specific break down of how much each equal worker is financially investing in the co-op. And why is that, do you think? Could it be because people aren't stupid enough to think that a person who invests $20,000 and a person who invests $100 should have equal input AND return? Or is it possible Bern's plan doesn't include individuals paying into the co-op at all? Edited August 30, 2015 by LABillzFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) I gave up Ayn Rand for Bernie Sanders: How I grew up and traded libertarianism for a progressive socialist" http://www.salon.com/2015/07/20/why_libertarians_should_love_bernie_sanders/ Quote: For too long, the anger and passion has been driven by Tea Party types and libertarians. Their solution seems to be throwing more gasoline on a trailer-park fire. Inequality? Cut taxes for the wealthy and implement a flat tax. Poverty? Eliminate the social safety net and cut food stamps. Those not actively making problems worse are obsessed with non-stories and fictitious scandals, featuring Benghazi, Jade Helm, e-mail servers or any of the other innumerable, invented outrages. Even issues I care deeply about, like prison reform, can distract. Our country grows more lopsided by the day, and despite big wins on gay marriage and health care, too many trends are moving in the wrong direction. Are we a society that works for people or are we in something like feudalism, where corporations and private organization all but own their employees? The current problem with politics, the economy and culture comes from treating human beings like just another business asset to be exploited or replaced. We say a persons value is what the market will bear, and if the market has no use for a particular human, he or she has no inherent worth. Thats pretty sick. Should we just let them starve to death? For the radical right, the answer is an enthusiastic absolutely. If all else fails, deport them. What is with this opinion pieces where folks pretend to have been libertarians and are now "reformed?" A libertarian who considers the ACA a win? Yeah, okay. Can't wait for the next piece, "how I gave up being a sadist to become the Dalai Lama." Edited August 30, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 What is with this opinion pieces where folks pretend to have been libertarians and are now "reformed?" A libertarian who considers the ACA a win? Yeah, okay. Can't wait for the next piece, "how I gave up being a sadist to become the Dalai Lama." seems an apt analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 What is with this opinion pieces where folks pretend to have been libertarians and are now "reformed?" A libertarian who considers the ACA a win? Yeah, okay. Can't wait for the next piece, "how I gave up being a sadist to become the Dalai Lama." Judging by his earlier work, that author was never a libertarian. He's a set of flannel pajamas and a cup of hot chocolate away from being the ideal Obama liberal. I think my favorite article by him is the one that decries the popularity of professional sports because it causes an artificial regionalism and tribalism that divides the country, oppresses illegal immigrants, and promotes racial violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Well...yes. The problem is that the solutions often don't - they see problem, but think the solution is to turn the problem upside-down rather than eliminate it. Well...yes, but if we are going to generalize let's remember one obvious truth, that the Liberals actually want to fix problems while their opponents do not. Liberals are are usually trying to fix something with one hand while fighting the forces of reaction with the other. Can't expect everything to turn out perfectly under that situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 seems an apt analogy. I should have written it the other way, damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Well...yes, but if we are going to generalize let's remember one obvious truth, that the Liberals actually want to fix problems while their opponents do not. Liberals are are usually trying to fix something with one hand while fighting the forces of reaction with the other. Can't expect everything to turn out perfectly under that situation No...you usually just disagree with the other side, but are just too damned immature to understand that "disagreement" is not outright dismissal that has to be fought. Iran's a good case in point - Republicans disagree with the terms of the agreement, and are portrayed as terrorists. Illegal immigration's another - Republicans want border security as part of reform, and are called Nazis. That's just two, but there's plenty of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 What is with this opinion pieces where folks pretend to have been libertarians and are now "reformed?" A libertarian who considers the ACA a win? Yeah, okay. Can't wait for the next piece, "how I gave up being a sadist to become the Dalai Lama." You'd think the moment Salon ran an article arguing people should be allowed to marry robots, fewer people would link to it as an authoritative voice for anything but idiocy. But...y'know...SoProgs. It's difficult to understand a group who want to elect a socialist president because of Ikea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 What is with this opinion pieces where folks pretend to have been libertarians and are now "reformed?" A libertarian who considers the ACA a win? Yeah, okay. Can't wait for the next piece, "how I gave up being a sadist to become the Dalai Lama." It doesn't matter if xe is actually a Libertarian. If xe self identifies as a repentant Libertarian who has embraced xyr true selves by renouncing sinful thoughtcrimes then we must accept xyr testimony, regardless if xe was a Leftist shill all along Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who is Yuri? Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) No, you don't. You have a shallow, idealistic view of it that in no way translates to reality. I think it translates to reality just fine. Haven't you seen the latest polling numbers in Iowa? For those of you who are still curious about owner co-ops, Google "owner co-ops." That will provide some good basic information if you click on one of the search results. "Sanders, a Vermont U.S. senator, has become a liberal Pied Piper in Iowa not as a vote against Clinton, but because caucusgoers genuinely like him, the poll shows. An overwhelming 96 percent of his backers say they support him and his ideas. Just 2 percent say they're motivated by opposition to Clinton." Edited August 30, 2015 by Franz Kafka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 For those of you who are still curious about owner co-ops, Google "owner co-ops." That will provide some good basic information if you click on one of the search results. So basically what you're saying is you don't really have anything to back up your point and want others to do the research to prove you wrong. And what a bloviated way to say Google it http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+do+i+use+google Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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