Do We Have Any Bernie Sanders Supporters Among Us?

[Tiberius]

 

 

I use to, but not anymore. I have come to the conclusion that rewarding illegal behavior with citizenship is a bridge too far for me walk. I know of many friends of mine who have tried to go through the onerous process of trying to get a visa and ultimately a legal status to get and stay here. And all too often they are unable to obtain this legal status. Rewarding people who came here illegally not just with legal status, but taking it to the next level, citizenship is wholly unfair.

 

Since they are already here, we can't break up the families and rip them from their communities and ship them home as much as Trump's supporters would love to see. But that doesn't mean we give them the rights to become citizens, legal status of residency is more than fair.

I am just thinking of the common good. It would just be better, in my opinion, to give them rights, citizenship and the ability to rise in the world and contribute more to society. Release that human capital!

 

Oh, and careful about saying "we give them the rights...." Some people around here argue that only a creator can do that.

[GG]

 

 

I use to, but not anymore. I have come to the conclusion that rewarding illegal behavior with citizenship is a bridge too far for me walk. I know of many friends of mine who have tried to go through the onerous process of trying to get a visa and ultimately a legal status to get and stay here. And all too often they are unable to obtain this legal status. Rewarding people who came here illegally not just with legal status, but taking it to the next level, citizenship is wholly unfair.

 

Since they are already here, we can't break up the families and rip them from their communities and ship them home as much as Trump's supporters would love to see. But that doesn't mean we give them the rights to become citizens, legal status of residency is more than fair.

 

I'm not aware of any proposals that grant automatic citizenship to illegals.

 

Here's the summary of the proposed reform bill from 2007:

 

S.1639 would have created a new class of visa, the "Z visa", that would be given to everyone who was living without a valid visa in the United States on Jan. 1, 2010; this visa would give its holder the legal right to remain in the United States for the rest of their lives, and access to a Social Security number. After eight years, the holder of a Z visa would be eligible for a United States Permanent Resident Card (a "green card") if they wanted to have one; they would first have to pay a $2000 fine, and back taxes for some of the period in which they worked. By the normal rules of green cards, five years after that the illegal immigrant could begin the process of becoming a U.S. citizen.

 

[Tiberius]

 

Crack down BIG TIME on employers. Stop giving them incentives to come here. Our economy creates the jobs but the employers fill them with cheap, off the record illegal labor. You're all for taxes how much revenue is missed due to black market employment. A wall is impractical but better border security may help I don't know about that seeing I'm not there on a daily basis seeing what's actually being done. We also need to work with the countries that are the biggest offender s(i.e. Mexico and Central America). How once again I'm not sure but they absolutely have to have some skin in the game. The issue with the illegal immigration coming to this country is that for the most part it's not the best and brightest coming across our southern border. It is for the most part unskilled and uneducated and that is not what we need to make this country greater. We have plenty of people born in this country that are unskilled and uneducated that can do those jobs already. They have no incentive to take them. Remove their incentives to not work and they will once again do those jobs they were doing decades ago.

I'm not for harassing businesses and increasing business expenses that make us less competitive in the global market place.

 

First generation immigrants might be uneducated, but its always been that way. The cream rises after the next generation, that;s been the experience with all the other groups. I have to go now

[Chef Jim]

I am just thinking of the common good. It would just be better, in my opinion, to give them rights, citizenship and the ability to rise in the world and contribute more to society. Release that human capital!

 

Oh, and careful about saying "we give them the rights...." Some people around here argue that only a creator can do that.

 

We have plenty of human capital of people that were born here. Why do we need to import it illegally?

I'm not for harassing businesses and increasing business expenses that make us less competitive in the global market place.

 

First generation immigrants might be uneducated, but its always been that way. The cream rises after the next generation, that;s been the experience with all the other groups. I have to go now

 

So you're ok with businesses working illegally? Are you for them not paying their payroll tax or sales taxes? We audit them all the time for financial reasons why not for employment reasons?

 

We've had mass first generation immigrants from other countries (i.e Italy and Ireland) that slowed to a trickle after a certain amount of time. So your argument works there (which I knew you were going to go) however unless changes are made our southern border it will never slow to a trickle it will continue to be open floodgates. So we will continue to have millions of uneducated/unskilled labor continuing to flood in.

[GG]

 

We have plenty of human capital of people that were born here. Why do we need to import it illegally?

 

Actually, we don't. This could be merged with the first world problems thread. There's a mismatch in availability of low skill labor. Ditchdiggers, dishwashers & farm hands nearly always been composed of immigrant labor. That's why it's nonsensical that immigration laws haven't been updated for 30 years.

[Azalin]

 

Where have any of us (I'm white and older but not Republican) said we have an issue with immigrants and immigration?

 

We haven't, because we don't. As usual, his statement is beyond idiotic.

 

You're like a dysfunctional hamster. You're just too damned innocuous to truly dislike.

 

Personally, I regard him as more of a spastic Yorkie, chasing his tail, poking his nose around, yapping like there's no tomorrow, and crapping on the carpet

 

Oh, and careful about saying "we give them the rights...." Some people around here argue that only a creator can do that.

 

And you never miss an opportunity to prove how little you know.

[Chef Jim]

 

Actually, we don't. This could be merged with the first world problems thread. There's a mismatch in availability of low skill labor. Ditchdiggers, dishwashers & farm hands nearly always been composed of immigrant labor. That's why it's nonsensical that immigration laws haven't been updated for 30 years.

 

When I was a kid the people that worked the fields in WNY were migrant workers. Mostly blacks bused in from the south. So you're telling me we don't have enough poor/healthy/unemployed Americans to do these jobs? We have the capital we're just afraid to force it to work.

[KD in CA]

 

When I was a kid the people that worked the fields in WNY were migrant workers. Mostly blacks bused in from the south. So you're telling me we don't have enough poor/healthy/unemployed Americans to do these jobs? We have the capital we're just afraid to force it to work.

 

What do you expect us to do, insult their dignity!

[Chef Jim]

 

What do you expect us to do, insult their dignity!

 

And that is so true. They would scream we were insulting their dignity whereas most of us here would lose all dignity if we were on social assistance for any length of time

[Magox]

 

I'm not aware of any proposals that grant automatic citizenship to illegals.

 

Here's the summary of the proposed reform bill from 2007:

 

 

Wasn't referring to any existent proposals, just responding to Gator's comment that he was in favor of granting citizenship.

[GG]

 

When I was a kid the people that worked the fields in WNY were migrant workers. Mostly blacks bused in from the south. So you're telling me we don't have enough poor/healthy/unemployed Americans to do these jobs? We have the capital we're just afraid to force it to work.

 

There are enough poor/healthy/unemployed Americans to do these jobs, but you can't force them to take these jobs, or move them to where these jobs are. US employment in early '60s was also much different because poverty levels in the deep South were much greater.

 

This is a good byproduct of a growing first world economy. You don't want a large number of your citizens toiling in low skill low wage jobs. This is one of the few things that I agree with TPS on - the ultimate test of global capitalism will be when everyone's standard of living is so high than nobody will want to take a job below their "standards" You're already seeing it today with the new college graduates.

Edited August 26, 2015 by GG

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

There are enough poor/healthy/unemployed Americans to do these jobs, but you can't force them to take these jobs, or move them to where these jobs are. US employment in early '60s was also much different because poverty levels in the deep South were much greater.

 

This is a good byproduct of a growing first world economy. You don't want a large number of your citizens toiling in low skill low wage jobs. This is one of the few things that I agree with TPS on - the ultimate test of global capitalism will be when everyone's standard of living is so high than nobody will want to take a job below their "standards" You're already seeing it today with the new college graduates.

Your link is broken.

[GG]

Your link is broken.

 

Fixed

[DC Tom]

Oh, and careful about saying "we give them the rights...." Some people around here argue that only a creator can do that.

 

Actually, you're the one that argued that.

[Chef Jim]

 

There are enough poor/healthy/unemployed Americans to do these jobs, but you can't force them to take these jobs, or move them to where these jobs are. US employment in early '60s was also much different because poverty levels in the deep South were much greater.

 

This is a good byproduct of a growing first world economy. You don't want a large number of your citizens toiling in low skill low wage jobs. This is one of the few things that I agree with TPS on - the ultimate test of global capitalism will be when everyone's standard of living is so high than nobody will want to take a job below their "standards" You're already seeing it today with the new college graduates.

 

You create a vacuum buy eliminating the illegal employee. Follow that up with with the prospect of a decent job with a decen wage, limit people's unemployment and social handouts they'll figure a way to get there asses to where the jobs are. Look at what in North Dakota. I prefer they toil in low skill low wage jobs as opposed to living on my dime and doing nothing. Those at the poultry processing plant quit because they could. If it was that or starve I imagine they would have stayed.

[GG]

 

You create a vacuum buy eliminating the illegal employee. Follow that up with with the prospect of a decent job with a decen wage, limit people's unemployment and social handouts they'll figure a way to get there asses to where the jobs are. Look at what in North Dakota. I prefer they toil in low skill low wage jobs as opposed to living on my dime and doing nothing. Those at the poultry processing plant quit because they could. If it was that or starve I imagine they would have stayed.

 

You don't generate economic growth by pushing more people into low wage jobs (North Dakota jobs are not low skill low wage). You may fill a few jobs here and there with US workers, but overall there will be a shortage of labor which will need to be filled with immigrants or seasonal guest workers.

[IDBillzFan]

I'm not for harassing businesses and increasing business expenses that make us less competitive in the global market place.

 

Says the guy who wants to force businesses to a $15/hour minimum wage.

 

Y'see, this is what happens when you simply repeat what other people tell you. You become too stupid to realize how you contradict your own comments.

[Chef Jim]

 

You don't generate economic growth by pushing more people into low wage jobs (North Dakota jobs are not low skill low wage). You may fill a few jobs here and there with US workers, but overall there will be a shortage of labor which will need to be filled with immigrants or seasonal guest workers.

 

Oh I agree. This is not an absolute. There is no way we will eliminate illegal immigration and they will continue to work here. I'm just trying to take away the incentive. It's like when we do planning we say progress not perfection and we've made zero progress with this problem for decades. Pandering to the illegals will not solve the problem.

[GG]

 

Oh I agree. This is not an absolute. There is no way we will eliminate illegal immigration and they will continue to work here. I'm just trying to take away the incentive. It's like when we do planning we say progress not perfection and we've made zero progress with this problem for decades. Pandering to the illegals will not solve the problem.

 

And this is why GOP missed a golden opportunity in 2007. Immigration was in dire need of a fix, it didn't get fixed, and nobody won in the meantime, other than Dems who can effectively politicize it. Meanwhile you'll have idiots squawking about a border fence which will accomplish nothing for another decade.

[Chef Jim]

 

And this is why GOP missed a golden opportunity in 2007. Immigration was in dire need of a fix, it didn't get fixed, and nobody won in the meantime, other than Dems who can effectively politicize it. Meanwhile you'll have idiots squawking about a border fence which will accomplish nothing for another decade.

Absolutely agree.