GG Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 is canada bankrupt? relative to the US? For starters, the US system is not bankrupt. Canada's system is very expensive but costs are hidden through taxes, and about those wait times ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) Yes, because the US is pretty much a mirror image of Scandinavia. that's a separate argument. my response was to the assertion that socialism is never successful. For starters, the US system is not bankrupt. Canada's system is very expensive but costs are hidden through taxes, and about those wait times ... paul ryan disagrees with you: http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2014/jun/05/paul-ryan/paul-ryan-says-medicare-going-bankrupt/ Edited July 21, 2015 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 paul ryan disagrees with you: http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2014/jun/05/paul-ryan/paul-ryan-says-medicare-going-bankrupt/ I'm assuming that you posted that as a serious attempt to back your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I'm assuming that you posted that as a serious attempt to back your point? yes. are you proposing an end to medicare as an option? practically or politically? it's not going away. we have a hybbrid system of gov't healthcare and commercial insurance. the only viable alternative is single payer, not commercial only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 that's a separate argument. my response was to the assertion that socialism is never successful. It's not a separate argument when you state that the person you want to be President "is a believer in scandinavian style socialism". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 yes. are you proposing an end to medicare as an option? practically or politically? it's not going away. we have a hybbrid system of gov't healthcare and commercial insurance. the only viable alternative is single payer, not commercial only. Holy non sequitur, Batman. Let's get back on point, how does Ryan's criticism of Medicare's finances equal to the US healthcare system to be bankrupt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Very wide right Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 unvarnished: http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/10-things-bernie-sanders-said-in-phoenix-that-made-the-crowd-go-wild-7502562#! United States is the only major country on earth that doesn’t guarantee healthcare as a human right, and together we will end that embarrassment…and pass a universal Medicare plan that’s single-payer. Health care is a right, not a privilege When one family, [the Kochs], spends more money than either political party [on the presidential campaigns], that’s not democracy; that’s oligarchy…I will overturn Citizens United and [reinstate] public funding of elections…I want young people to be able to run for office and not have to beg for money from rich people and corporations Jeb Bush believes we need to work a little harder. Sadly, he hasn’t heard that the American people work the longest hours of anywhere in the world. Our workers do not need to work longer hours; they need to get higher wages The only thing you forgot was to slam FOX news scandanavians do pretty well when it comes to standard of living, happiness, work life balance, longevity/health, etc - you know, the really important things. sanders is a believer in scandanavian style socialism. Sure, socialism works very well as long as you can take money away from Capitalists to fund it.On its own it just creates misery.I wonder if there is room in Scandinavia for people who want to work 18 hours a day 7 days a week to become successful ?But then again if someone takes away all your wealth if the risk works out trying to establish a business it wouldn't be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 is canada bankrupt? relative to the US? Thousands flee Canada to seek care in the US. http://watchdog.org/208299/canadians-flee-health-care/ http://www.fraserinstitute.org/research-news/news/display.aspx?id=20716 http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/11/report-thousands-fled-canada-for-health-care-in-2011/ Every country in the world has to send their citizens to the US for care. The benefits of socialized medicine is that it's cheap (both in care and cost). If you want the best, only one country can provide. There's a reason why the US produces more medical innovations than every other country combined X4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 If you've ever talked to foreigners from countries with socialized medicine, who have actually experienced the US healthcare system, you'll come away with two universal facts: 1) They think it's prohibitively expensive, and that paying up front is inhumane. (but will admit that our taxes are extremely low) 2) They couldn't believe, that not only were they able to see a doctor immediately, but were actually treated the same day. Don't get them started on X-rays in the same clinic; they thought that kind of care was only available to Saudi prince's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 If you've ever talked to foreigners from countries with socialized medicine, who have actually experienced the US healthcare system, you'll come away with two universal facts: 1) They think it's prohibitively expensive, and that paying up front is inhumane. (but will admit that our taxes are extremely low) 2) They couldn't believe, that not only were they able to see a doctor immediately, but were actually treated the same day. Don't get them started on X-rays in the same clinic; they thought that kind of care was only available to Saudi prince's. i actually talked to a recruiter about working for aramco for a year or 2, many years ago. wife was set against it (hmmm, i wonder why?) and i didn't like the idea of having to distlill my own spirits but i'm pretty sure people other than princes get seen the same day. and the best care is available to those in the us who can afford it, in some instances. care from tents in a field is not good care. happens here in appalachia every year- thousands of pulled teeth, immunizations , simple blood tests for diabetes etc. even for those with good insurance, the quality is sometimes debatable. it's a system fueled by profit - do more, get paid more. there is general agreement in the american medical community that we over utilize tests and procedures that can do harm other than foinancial. more is often not better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Populism is the devil. No. The Devil is the devil, and he's getting more and more popular. There's also the little problem of Hilary having HUGE HUGE HUGE money on her side, and Sanders actively rejecting it (or so he says, I'm always cynical of that notion though). Nonsense. Why, I read it right here in this very thread that it's the Koch brothers who control the elections. They are the only ones who have money to spend on the backing of candidates and their issues. You're not suggesting they're giving Hillary money too, are you? Oh goodness. What will Bill say if he thinks Hill's getting some on the side from the rooster brothers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 No. The Devil is the devil, and he's getting more and more popular. Nonsense. Why, I read it right here in this very thread that it's the Koch brothers who control the elections. They are the only ones who have money to spend on the backing of candidates and their issues. You're not suggesting they're giving Hillary money too, are you? Oh goodness. What will Bill say if he thinks Hill's getting some on the side from the rooster brothers? Lobbying is a bipartisan problem, imo. (yes, I consider campaign financing through Super PACs and the like, the be lobbying) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 and the best care is available to those in the us who can afford it, in some instances. care from tents in a field is not good care. happens here in appalachia every year- thousands of pulled teeth, immunizations , simple blood tests for diabetes etc. even for those with good insurance, the quality is sometimes debatable. it's a system fueled by profit - do more, get paid more. there is general agreement in the american medical community that we over utilize tests and procedures that can do harm other than foinancial. more is often not better. Would you rather live in countries where treatment wasn't available even if you had the money to pay for it? Liberals cry about how the poor in this country can't afford basic healthcare, while regular citizens in other countries cry about not being able to find basic healthcare. That's the difference. You're ready to burn down the system for an equality of misery to spite quality of care. If you truly believe socialized medicine is better, try convincing the 1/3 of patients on the VA's waiting list that are already dead. Imagine that kind of efficiency on a national scale. http://thehill.com/policy/defense/247752-report-one-third-of-vets-waiting-medical-care-already-dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share Posted July 22, 2015 Would you rather live in countries where treatment wasn't available even if you had the money to pay for it? Liberals cry about how the poor in this country can't afford basic healthcare, while regular citizens in other countries cry about not being able to find basic healthcare. That's the difference. You're ready to burn down the system for an equality of misery to spite quality of care. If you truly believe socialized medicine is better, try convincing the 1/3 of patients on the VA's waiting list that are already dead. Imagine that kind of efficiency on a national scale. http://thehill.com/policy/defense/247752-report-one-third-of-vets-waiting-medical-care-already-dead That's pretty much all of liberalism in a nutshell. Make the situation of ~80% worse to marginally improve that of the other ~20%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Anyone>Hillary So yes Bernie>Hillary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Anyone>Hillary So yes Bernie>Hillary ...You finally posted something I agree with completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Anyone>Hillary So yes Bernie>Hillary Hitler is "anyone." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Hitler is "anyone." Still a toss-up for me, but he's dead. Allegedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Well, he's dead. So, yes... Hitler>Hillary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Well, he's dead. So, yes... Hitler>Hillary. Hillary, in office, might actually accomplish less than a dead Hitler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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