Early 4 Way Presidential Poll

[Ozymandius]

The furthest left I'm willing to go is Walker. In an ideal world, I would like Cruz, but for now I'll stay with Trump until he's no longer a contender.

Jeb might as well be a Democrat.

 

He's not going to rescind the Iran deal by force. He's not going to build a wall. He's for immigration reform and common core. He's not going to repeal Obamacare. What is the point of voting for him?

[Dorkington]

Too early and you've narrowed the field too much.

Quoting you, but responding to the general crowd... like I said, not at all a super serious poll, just based on the early leaders in both parties. I'm sure the top 4 will change when we get closer to primaries, and I'll do another poll then

[Rob's House]

I picked Trump by default. I still have reservations about him but Sanders is a socialist, Hillary's a neo-fascist, and Jeb Bush is likely to climb into the traditional Bush "be everything to everyone" socially conservativish, fiscally liberalish jellyfish that will accomplish little to advance anything worthwhile, but do a lot to tarnish conservatism in the minds of the masses.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Rob's House

[keepthefaith]

Quoting you, but responding to the general crowd... like I said, not at all a super serious poll, just based on the early leaders in both parties. I'm sure the top 4 will change when we get closer to primaries, and I'll do another poll then

It's a good thread and will generate some interesting comments and debate and a few laughs.

[GG]

The furthest left I'm willing to go is Walker. In an ideal world, I would like Cruz, but for now I'll stay with Trump until he's no longer a contender.

Jeb might as well be a Democrat.

 

He's not going to rescind the Iran deal by force. He's not going to build a wall. He's for immigration reform and common core. He's not going to repeal Obamacare. What is the point of voting for him?

 

You actually believe that a 2,000 mile wall is the solution to the immigration problem?

[Ozymandius]

 

You actually believe that a 2,000 mile wall is the solution to the immigration problem?

 

Not the sole solution, but a necessary feature of the solution.

 

We can't have open borders + welfare + anchor baby policy. Build a wall to stop the leak, and then we'll discuss the other aspects of immigration.

 

Conservatives are owed a wall. Reagan amnestied like 4K illegals in the 80s in exchange for a wall, but the wall was never built.

 

Debts need to be settled. That means America gets a wall.

[GG]

 

Not the sole solution, but a necessary feature of the solution.

 

We can't have open borders + welfare + anchor baby policy. Build a wall to stop the leak, and then we'll discuss the other aspects of immigration.

 

Conservatives are owed a wall. Reagan amnestied like 4K illegals in the 80s in exchange for a wall, but the wall was never built.

 

Debts need to be settled. That means America gets a wall.

 

Link?

[Deranged Rhino]

The furthest left I'm willing to go is Walker. In an ideal world, I would like Cruz, but for now I'll stay with Trump until he's no longer a contender.

Jeb might as well be a Democrat.

 

He's not going to rescind the Iran deal by force. He's not going to build a wall. He's for immigration reform and common core. He's not going to repeal Obamacare. What is the point of voting for him?

By force? That's your number one desired way to deal with Iran?

 

AND a border fence? (Which we can't afford nor build without illegal immigrant labor btw -- IRONY!)

 

Yeah, nether of these things are going to happen.

[Dorkington]

While I don't support a wall, we could easily afford it if we cut from other parts of the government. I'm assuming the conservative answer would be to cut social programs, and the liberal answer would be to cut defense. (if both "sides" actually agreed to build a wall)

 

The big expense would be how many people we'd need to maintain and secure said wall.

[Magox]

Jeb Bush's position on Obamacare

 

Jeb Bush says that Obamacare is a “monstrosity” and wants the government to focus instead on a catastrophic coverage plan to help people who experience costly medical crises.

Bush has long voiced opposition to Obamacare and has stressed that the GOP’s best response would be a solid alternative. He said he’d rather see a health system that is “consumer-directed” and gives the patient a relationship with his or her health provider.

“We restore [a patient-doctor relationship in the health system] by repealing — if possible at some point, I think that’s post presidency of Barack Obama — the Affordable Care Act, Obamacare,” Bush said Friday at a fundraiser for Iowa Rep. David Young. “And replacing it with a model that is consumer directed, where consumers, where patients, have more choices, where they have more of a direct relationship; where the subsidies, if there were to be subsidies, are state administered; and if there are to be exchanges, they aren’t coercive exchanges; where there’s no employer mandate, employee mandate or requirements of services provided that are extraordinary; where people have more customized types of insurance based on their needs; and it’s more consumer-directed so that they’re more engaged in the decision-making, and they have more choices than what they have today.”

 

No sensible candidate is going to advocate for the repeal of the healthcare law without some clear replacement for the law. Taking away people's health insurance that they have obtained for the first time in some cases decades or ever is a non starter without providing some sort of alternative.

 

 

Jeb's position on Common Core

 

Bush has said the Common Core should serve as a floor for quality and rigor if states are looking to replace the standards. But this month he said the standards must be state driven, a statement appealing to conservatives who want to sever the federal government from all education matters. Since the standards were developed by governors and state education chiefs and their adoption was voluntary, Common Core proponents argue that the standards have always been state driven.

“Common Core means a lot of things to different people, so they could be right based on what’s in front of them,” Bush said in an interview with Fox News Channel’s Megyn Kelly. “I respect people having a view, but the simple fact is we need higher standards. They need to be state driven. The federal government should play no role in this, either in the creation of standards, content or curriculum. That’s what I believe. And if we don’t have high standards and assess to them faithfully, we get what we have today which is about a third of our kids being college and/or career ready.”

 

In other words, he'd leave it up to the states to decide how they want to go about it. Do people really forget his record in Florida on education? He was hailed by the conservatives as having the model approach by being one of the first to push through the school vouchers.

 

And in regards to his fiscal record, it was about as conservative of a record as you'd find, with tons of job growth, lots of tax cuts, balanced budgets with rainy day funds, reduction in regulations and in the state government employee workforce.

While I don't support a wall, we could easily afford it if we cut from other parts of the government. I'm assuming the conservative answer would be to cut social programs, and the liberal answer would be to cut defense. (if both "sides" actually agreed to build a wall)

 

The big expense would be how many people we'd need to maintain and secure said wall.

 

The way I'm seeing this is the left should call the conservatives on their bluff, build the wall and add more measures that they are asking for and THEN ask for them to resolve the status of the existing illegal immigrants that are here. I'd rather just have a bill that takes everything into account, but the resistance is just too much. Conservatives are saying "hey, lets do border security and then we'll deal with the other issue". Honestly, I think many of them are full of **** and have no intention of allowing them to have a legal status. Like I said, call them on their bluff. "secure" the border first and let's see what happens.

[Deranged Rhino]

While I don't support a wall, we could easily afford it if we cut from other parts of the government. I'm assuming the conservative answer would be to cut social programs, and the liberal answer would be to cut defense. (if both "sides" actually agreed to build a wall)

 

The big expense would be how many people we'd need to maintain and secure said wall.

 

Have you ever worked on a major construction project? I have. Several of them. The costs to do this would be major, well more than we could afford even with substantial cuts to other programs. And, the only way the contractors would make enough of a profit to make the job worthwhile would be to use a large amount of illegal immigrant labor.

 

There's not going to be a wall built. It's a talking point without any grounding in reality.

[GG]

 

Have you ever worked on a major construction project? I have. Several of them. The costs to do this would be major, well more than we could afford even with substantial cuts to other programs. And, the only way the contractors would make enough of a profit to make the job worthwhile would be to use a large amount of illegal immigrant labor.

 

There's not going to be a wall built. It's a talking point without any grounding in reality.

 

And even if you build this massive wall, how will you protect the 2,000 of the Gulf coast line?

[Dorkington]

 

Have you ever worked on a major construction project? I have. Several of them. The costs to do this would be major, well more than we could afford even with substantial cuts to other programs. And, the only way the contractors would make enough of a profit to make the job worthwhile would be to use a large amount of illegal immigrant labor.

 

There's not going to be a wall built. It's a talking point without any grounding in reality.

I'd like to respond to this with some facts, but I'm not really allowed to But, its not an argument I really care to have, because I think a wall is dumb. I'm just saying... we could afford it. The sacrifice would be insane, but we could do it.

 

And even if you build this massive wall, how will you protect the 2,000 of the Gulf coast line?

More wall, and more coast guard, duh.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Dorkington

[Deranged Rhino]

I'd like to respond to this with some facts, but I'm not really allowed to But, its not an argument I really care to have, because I think a wall is dumb. I'm just saying... we could afford it. The sacrifice would be insane, but we could do it.

More wall, and more coast guard, duh.

 

I agree a wall is dumb. But we can't afford it unless you sacrifice MAJOR programs like social security or medicare. Which, will never happen.

 

And even if you build this massive wall, how will you protect the 2,000 of the Gulf coast line?

 

100%

[Very wide right]

 

What a load of crap. Sanders as a multi term Senator is not part of Washington? Why isn't O'Malley getting the votes, since he's the real Washington outsider? Why is Trump getting the votes, but not Fiorina or Carson? Right now polls are focused on the shiny objects, and Trump & Sanders are just that.

Trump is gaining traction because people are sick and tired of the direction this country is heading in.The liberal wackos have finally pissed off too many working Americans.The fact that a socialist even has a chance to be elected as president of the US is more than disturbing.Eight years of Obama has finally woken people up.Trump is actually a breath of fresh air,the GOP have listened to campaign advisors for too long and thats why they have lost elections.Tone it down has been the message and Trump is resonating with voters because he is raising hell exposing the failures and mayhem that is the democrat party

[Chef Jim]

 

 

The way I'm seeing this is the left should call the conservatives on their bluff, build the wall and add more measures that they are asking for and THEN ask for them to resolve the status of the existing illegal immigrants that are here. I'd rather just have a bill that takes everything into account, but the resistance is just too much. Conservatives are saying "hey, lets do border security and then we'll deal with the other issue". Honestly, I think many of them are full of **** and have no intention of allowing them to have a legal status. Like I said, call them on their bluff. "secure" the border first and let's see what happens.

 

I'm all for securing the border then deal with a path to citizenship for those here. I would love to hear what the conservatives plan to do with those here. If they insist on strict deportation they'll never win another election.

[Dorkington]

 

I agree a wall is dumb. But we can't afford it unless you sacrifice MAJOR programs like social security or medicare. Which, will never happen.

 

100%

That's kinda what I was referring to originally.

[Deranged Rhino]

Trump is gaining traction because people are sick and tired of the direction this country is heading in.The liberal wackos have finally pissed off too many working Americans.The fact that a socialist even has a chance to be elected as president of the US is more than disturbing.Eight years of Obama has finally woken people up.Trump is actually a breath of fresh air,the GOP have listened to campaign advisors for too long and thats why they have lost elections.Tone it down has been the message and Trump is resonating with voters because he is raising hell exposing the failures and mayhem that is the democrat party

[Very wide right]

 

I guess if that makes you feel better, but if it were Trump vs. Sanders, Trump would get his ass kicked because while some on the right may agree with Trump, the takers that have been fostered by the left would jump to Sanders' side almost immediately.

 

We've built a country filled with entitled pu$$$ies who can't wait for their 'free college education' and single payer health care and 'free' phones and internet. The takers FAR outnumber everyone else, and Trump wouldn't stand a chance because he doesn't know how to make a case for something. He simply keeps speaking until he hits a nerve, and when the nerve hits back, he doubles down. Instant press.

 

You want proof? Trump has done the one thing absolutely no one -- not a single soul -- thought possible: he got virtually everyone on the right to united behind John McCain, who is no more a Republican than Bernie Sanders is an independent.

Not this voter,McCain is a RINO and yeah Trump gets excited and has diarrhea of the mouth but I think conservatives understand he understands their values and would restore America to what it once was before the wacko libs showed up.I dont think you would see Trump negotiate with Iran while they chant "death to America".

[Dorkington]

 

I'm all for securing the border then deal with a path to citizenship for those here. I would love to hear what the conservatives plan to do with those here. If they insist on strict deportation they'll never win another election.

It's hard to sell the general public on the idea that all illegals are here to do bad things, and should face consequences. I'm actually surprised Republicans are holding on to it as a party platform, considering the increasing hispanic population.