2003Contenders Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Having worked for Wal-Mart back in my teens (about 20 years ago), I can tell you that they used to bend over backwards to prevent unions from ever forming. Thus, the company was very proactive about having good benefits, insisting that employees take their lunch breaks, allowing 15-minute breaks every 2 hours, etc. I will have to say that it wasn't a bad place to work. Actually, it was just a year or so ago that I believe it was voted one of the 100 best comapnies to work for in the US. The creation of a union would NOT help the workers there -- and would actually eventually lead to layoffs because the company would no longer be able to sell their merchandise at such low prices and still turn a profit. I think the creation of the union in this case was more of an activist thing (aimed at creating bad pub for Wal-Mart and helping the mom and pop shops that ultimately get hammered whenever a new Wal-Mart comes to town), rather than really trying to make life better for the Wal-Mart employees. At least that's how I see it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Wait a few years and we'll be back to those days. Just another reason why I've boycotted Walmart for the past 2 years. 235372[/snapback] Somehow, they seem to be holding together without your business.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 people in ballston spa NY do not want walmart to come to their small town . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 We can also thank unions for stupid !@#$ing rules that do nothing but amount to extortion. Doing a trade show in a "Union City"? Well don't plan on moving those 5 pound boxes by yourself (which you could easily do). Instead you need to get a union guy to come over and move them for you. Want to plug a light into an electrical socket (something done by "amateurs" everyday in their own homes)? Need to get a union electrician to come over and do it for you. God forbid you actually undertake these activities on your own, lest a union rep find out and shut your exhibit down until penalties can be accessed. Let's not forget about union kickbacks automatically increasing any major construction job by millions. Did private enterprise create the 'no show' job? Unions had a place, way back when, to give an employee a voice when they were woefully underpaid and made to work in unsafe working conditions. Those days are for the most part behind us. Unions are antiquated and are only going after Walmart and others to replace dwindling membership roles. Thanks unions, for vacations and other bennies, now reform yourselves or prepare to be fazed out of existence. 235539[/snapback] Good post!! The unions have been losing business for the city of Philly. Conventioneers do not want to hold their conventions in the city and their reason is the unions. There is also bickering between unions. I will give you a quick story of one issue that happened: There was a line drawn in the convention center. Everything on one side of the line was the responsibility of one union. Another union would be responsible for the other side of the line. The first union would load materials up to th eline. The other would take those materials to their destination. Well, the first union ran out of room for storing the items, so the union employee placed the boxes on the other side of this line. Well, needless to say, the second union got ticked off and there was a major argument that resulted in violence. All work shut down while negotiators tried to resolve the issue. Give me a friggin break. I have dealt with union and non-union contractors for over a decade. As you mentioned, they need to reform. They are killing U.S. businesses and the workers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Unions may have been good to help establish the workers voice in this country, but nowadays what is the purpose? Anyone? Unions in education simply lead to teachers getting pay raises based on pure seniority and not performance. You see factory workers who do the most menial jobs (important, perhaps, but easily replaceable) and make $20+ an hour. Construction workers take 85 breaks a day, and crews take 3 times as long to finish a road. All of this because they are protected by their union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorom Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 I'm 100% union, especially seeing how ignorant and selfish corporate CEO's, VP's, and other high up white collar personell are. I watched the Boeing corp layoff 10,000+ workers only to see about 50 million in bonuses be handed out to these corporate big wigs. Unions are there to make sure us blue collar folk have good work that helps us take care of our families. This country needs a strong return to the union mentality. Otherwise we will see the present labor situation in this country get worse. Less benefits, less pay, just plain less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 There was a show on PBS recently about Evil Wal-Mart. One thing that sticks out in my mind is Evil Wal-Mart will sign big contracts with Good Ol' American companies to produce product for their stores. Then once the Good Ol' American company gets production ramped up, Evil Wal-Mart will tell them that they will buy the same number of units, but at a cheaper price. 235516[/snapback] Welcome to the way Asians have been doing business for years. Get everything in place, then change the rules. Unions are like anything else in this world anymore: if they would stick to their real charter, they would probably have a special purpose in our lives. Unfortunately, they stopped caring about the person and the economy...and started caring about their own unions too much, and once that happens, you become part of the problem and not part of the solution. I'm sure a group like PETA had a good purpose in the beginning. But now? Embarrassing. ALCU? Good purpose in the beginning. Now? Embarrassing. Unions? Ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 I'm 100% union, especially seeing how ignorant and selfish corporate CEO's, VP's, and other high up white collar personell are. I watched the Boeing corp layoff 10,000+ workers only to see about 50 million in bonuses be handed out to these corporate big wigs. Unions are there to make sure us blue collar folk have good work that helps us take care of our families. This country needs a strong return to the union mentality. Otherwise we will see the present labor situation in this country get worse. Less benefits, less pay, just plain less. 235566[/snapback] What is your opinon on unions protecting the lazy and incompetent? Do you support this aspect of unions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 I watched the Boeing corp layoff 10,000+ workers only to see about 50 million in bonuses be handed out to these corporate big wigs. 235566[/snapback] Why is it the union's fault that people other than yourself are getting huge bonuses? What have those corporate big wigs done that you haven't done to get to where they are versus where you are? This world owes you nothing, yet gives you every opportunity to have everything. If you don't have everything, please don't blame the people who do. Personal accountability. Don't have any? Get some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 I'm 100% union, especially seeing how ignorant and selfish corporate CEO's, VP's, and other high up white collar personell are. Just curious. How many conversations have you had with any CEO lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac17 Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 people in ballston spa NY do not want walmart to come to their small town . Good for Ballston Spa. East Aurora didn't want walmart either, and they successfully kept them away. It doesn't mean they are inherently evil. At one point A & P controlled over 80% of the grocery business in the country, and people were saying the same things about them. I don't love Wal Mart by any stretch, but they have every right to do what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Why is it the union's fault that people other than yourself are getting huge bonuses? What have those corporate big wigs done that you haven't done to get to where they are versus where you are? This world owes you nothing, yet gives you every opportunity to have everything. If you don't have everything, please don't blame the people who do. Personal accountability. Don't have any? Get some. 235575[/snapback] Wow - what an amazing post. My company is small - 170 people currently. That being said, I work with the CEO on a day to day basis. Someone said one day "Man, Brayton has such a sweet office, that lucky SOB". Lucky? Wrong. Luck has nothing to do with being successful (90% of the time). There's people in other countries that would be killing to make $5/hour to do blue collar work. But here, our blue collar's are so spoiled by their unions, if they don't get $20/hour and 15 breaks a day, they are being over worked. Give me a break. Blue collar workers nowadays have to realize that their jobs are much more replaceable than most white collar jobs. Yet they B word when they don't get a 20% pay raise, and CAN B word because they have their big brother (union) to watch their back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Unions may have been good to help establish the workers voice in this country, but nowadays what is the purpose? Anyone? Unions in education simply lead to teachers getting pay raises based on pure seniority and not performance. You see factory workers who do the most menial jobs (important, perhaps, but easily replaceable) and make $20+ an hour. Construction workers take 85 breaks a day, and crews take 3 times as long to finish a road. All of this because they are protected by their union. 235556[/snapback] unions do a lot for safty now days . no one would be making any kind of good money to day if it was not for the unions and the fighting they did for you . you get the benifits with out even knowing it .construction workers do not take 85 brakes a day you must be thinking about state workers . how about the stores that hire people for 32 hr per week so that they do not have to pay benifts . just think some day you will be thanking the union worker in china for working 80 hr per week making you your clothes . the big company sent the shoemakers jobs to china where they make the shoe at a cost of less than $5 and send it back to the united states and sell it for a $ 100 . when every one here has to work for walmart or burger king for $8 or $9per hr. what do you think you will be doing with your life . you won't be able to afford anything . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Wow - what an amazing post. My company is small - 170 people currently. That being said, I work with the CEO on a day to day basis. Someone said one day "Man, Brayton has such a sweet office, that lucky SOB". Lucky? Wrong. Luck has nothing to do with being successful (90% of the time). There's people in other countries that would be killing to make $5/hour to do blue collar work. But here, our blue collar's are so spoiled by their unions, if they don't get $20/hour and 15 breaks a day, they are being over worked. Give me a break. Blue collar workers nowadays have to realize that their jobs are much more replaceable than most white collar jobs. Yet they B word when they don't get a 20% pay raise, and CAN B word because they have their big brother (union) to watch their back. 235586[/snapback] Damn, you and LA are agreeing. Is this the first sign of the apocolypse? I agree with both of you. There are people who earn what they have, and others who expect things to be handed to them. I never expect ANYTHING to be handed to me. I worked for everything I have and am damn proud of that. If I was not happy with the working conditions or pay, I ask for changes. If I do not receive those changes, I leave and get another job. It is their loss, not mine. Again, I do not need a crutch to get through life and I do not want a crutch to get through life and it seems like too many people rely on the crutch that is the unions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 unions do a lot for safty now days. no one would be making any kind of good money to day if it was not for the unions and the fighting they did for you. like i said, they laid the groundwork, maybe. The fighting the "did" made sense back then. Now it is pointless. You get the benifits with out even knowing it. For example? All of my personal benefits are paid by my employer, so I would like to know some examples of how we are benefiting from unions? how about the stores that hire people for 32 hr per week so that they do not have to pay benifts . What about that? This may sound crass, but is it my fault that the grocery store cashier is stuck doing that job? No. Nobody hands you anything. If people don't like working 32 hours because the employer won't give them another 8 to have to pay them benefits, ya know what they should do? Get another job. I know its not as easy as that. Want results? Work hard. Don't blame the rest of the world. just think some day you will be thanking the union worker in china for working 80 hr per week making you your clothes . the big company sent the shoemakers jobs to china where they make the shoe at a cost of less than $5 and send it back to the united states and sell it for a $ 100 . when every one here has to work for walmart or burger king for $8 or $9per hr. what do you think you will be doing with your life . you won't be able to afford anything .. I honestly have no idea what you are talking about here. Really, I don't. 235589[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mailman Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Everyone has their own opinion on this, based on what they have been subject to in their life. For me, unions suck, only because I have had negative exposure to them in my career. My view is skewed, and I don't think it will ever change. I have 10+ years working in warehouses, as a member of front line management. I spent a year in a warehouse that was unionized up north. It was the worst job experience of my life. I had trouble getting very simple things done, because of all the rules and regs I had to follow. I have always been people oriented, and like to empower employees to be the best they can be. The majority of these employees had the attitiude of being owed something by default, and some actually got mad when you found them taking unauthorized breaks, and told them to go back to work. There were some great employees there, that believed in a fair days work for their wage. Unfortunately, they were overshadowed by the other employees who found reward in doing nothing, but getting paid well for it. I left that situation, and have been happy ever since. Again, I wouldn't say that all unions are bad. My experience with them is negative, so that's the outlook I always find myself going back to..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 now days even the bean counters jobs are going over seas . dell tec. suport over seas .lots of white collar jobs are going over seas now days . think about your own job some day it might be in china and ask yourself did it go there because i was a slacker . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 the big company sent the shoemakers jobs to china where they make the shoe at a cost of less than $5 and send it back to the united states and sell it for a $ 100 . And WHY was this done? Because thanks to unions, the company wasn't able to employ Americans to make the shoes unless they paid them $25/hour plus benefits. How can you pretend that the union shakedowns have NO impact on a business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 now days even the bean counters jobs are going over seas . dell tec. suport over seas .lots of white collar jobs are going over seas now days . think about your own job some day it might be in china and ask yourself did it go there because i was a slacker . 235604[/snapback] WHAT? The only reason my job would be sent overseas would be if I joined a union and refused to work for less than $40 an hour! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 If I do not receive those changes, I leave and get another job. It is their loss, not mine. 235599[/snapback] Someone once told me something that is incredibly true in so many instances: things don't happen to you...you let things happen to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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