Walmart and Unions

[CentralVaBills]

There is SOME corruption in some unions as we see in life whenever money is involved, but the IAM751 (my union) represents over 100,000 of us and 99% of us in the union are extremly thankful. I also don't hear many UAW workers complaining about there situation, among a few others skilled trade labor unions. I've never had a better job then the one I held while working for the IAM751. I was well taken care of, with 2 weeks vacation, holidays, full health/dental, pension, and 401K. I am laid off now, but I have call back rights to my job. I feel very lucky to have this opportunity, and I have received awards for my workmanship, and letters of recommendation from my non-union supervisors.

Your focusing on a few far fetched union negatives, and abandoning all the postivies. I guarentee you'll find a heluva alot more negativity at the top of the ladder when it comes to equality, fairness, and greed. I think you better look at the CEO's and VP's making 100's of thousands to millions a year as the reason why prices are being driven up. I say lets put a salary cap on the ivory tower people and force the money down to the employees who deserve a better livable situation.

 

Thats what America is supposed to be about. If your willing to get up every morning do your job that makes many other people rich you should get a rock solid livable wage. No one should be told to stop living beyond their means, sell your used car and ride a bike to work. Nobody should be laidoff from a job while CEO's rake in huge bonuses.

 

Its time for Amercia to re-unionize itself. Too much corporate greed is happening and its effecting the middle and lower class workers.

236072[/snapback]

 

Wow. Please stay where you are and never move to the Mid-Atlantic. Ever look at the attitudes of states and areas that love unions and then look at areas that are mostly against unions? Please keep the unions up north, and keep all of the democrats up north while you're at it. I'll gladly drive through, spend some southern money, root for the Bills, and then come back to good ole conservative USA when the game is over.

 

Well, someday, compare Buffalo, Pittsburgh and others up north, to sprawling cities in the Mid-Atlantic. Tell me which one works. Thank god most people and companies here want to keep that union sh-- the hell outta here. There is no comparison between the Mid-Atlantic states and up north. I can see it when driving through all of the northern cities when on my way to a Bills game. You look around and compare Buffalo and Pittsburgh and similar places and then think of here and it's un-comparable. A recession? Not in Virginia.

 

All of my relatives in Pittsburgh are always laid off it seems. No new housing anywhere. The population is aging. Most of them had union jobs as coal workers, teachers, and what not.

 

I'm a Parks and Recreation assistant director in charge of athletics. I started out right out of college with a general degree and made about 23K with full benefits. I moved up various times, and switched places and now make about 50K. I've only been there 6 years. I also had a job interview last week and one this week for two separate jobs that have pay ranges of 62K to 89K. This is a NON union area, thank god......so.....

 

I keep telling my uncle, a coal miner, to move, come down to Virginia, and I'll hire him as a maintenance guy for our county government. This would, in turn, move him outside to mainly cutting grass on athletic fields. Get him top of the line government benefits for him and his family. Start at about 35K a year. That usually goes up in VA about 7% every year. And live in a sprawling area. Better schools for his kids, better everything except restaurants basically.

 

Well, he'd rather work 3 miles underground every day. Fight for benefits that always get cut or stay in constant bickering with management each year. Get laid off every two weeks, or have his mine close every other month. And probably die from black lung or suffer miserably when he's only $50. All for about 45K. Not realizing that the 45K means being laid off almost half the year, every year.

 

To each his own, but you get what you deserve! It just boggles my mind. I was born and raised in Pittsburgh (Love the Bills).....but I'll be damn if I wanted to live there. Thank god my mom felt the same way. She was in a sewing factory for a living. Single mom, and went to college at night. Got a degree. MOVED out of a dying area, put herself to work, and now is the Vice President of a bank in a beautiful town in VA.

 

If you want to B word and moan, be jealous of everyone, and hate your job....well then, do it. If you want a better life, get off of your ass and make something of yourself, and quit asking for handouts and others to do it for you!

 

And by god.....if you need find employment, and live in a depressed area....MOVE!

[gmac17]

I would'nt get out of bed for $28 an hour. I am a union rep and I make more than that due to my union. All you idiot union bashers just dont get it. I am able to take my kids on vacations and buy them the things they need and live comfortably due to the unions. So you would rather see the NY-Manhatten upper levels get all the profits and live in luxury instead of sharing the profits to the REAL people who made the company the money they enjoy? If it was'nt for my union, I would make $10 and hour with sh-- benefits just like you union bashers. My family enjoys the benefits of being in a union. And thats all that matters. Work your jobs for minimal pay and enjoy the fact that you can be fired for no reason and you have noone to turn to except for Mr.Molson.

 

what is your job? are you worth more than $28 an hour?

 

What people don't realize is that if you made $15 an hour rather than your $40 or whatever you make - the extra money simply doesn't go straight into the pockets of the company. It gives them the ability to lower prices, hire more employees, buy more machinery etc. etc.

[Fezmid]

Talk about the ultimate LAMP post... You post the same thing in the other thread, but have to break this out separate? THAT says it all.

 

CW

[Moose]

This is the first job I've ever had in which I am part of a union... and, frankly, it feels kind of slimey to me. Every person in the school district belongs to one union or another, and I've never witnessed firsthand such a dysfunctional and inefficient system in action. At the non-union community college where I used to work, the atmosphere was totally the opposite: it was a model of helpfulness and efficiency!

 

Here, the custodians (janitors) are members of the teamsters union; they make a very decent wage ($25/hour to start) and they are absolutely the most worthless, lazy bunch of workers I have ever seen! If there's a broken bottle out in the parking lot, that's not the custodians' job - you have to "put in a work order" to have the district grounds crew come by and clean it up. (I just grab a broom and a dust pan and go clean it myself so no one gets hurt or gets a flat tire.) When they have to cover a basketball game in that may run until 8:00 PM, they COME IN EARLY so they can get at least three hours overtime... even though they normally work until 9:00 PM! I run the sound system for plays and musicals and often stay to pack up my equipment in the auditorium after everyone has left. (As a favor to the music department, I work "off the clock" so they don't have to pay me a ton of overtime. They give me a decent cash token of appreciation instead.) Anyway, the custodians run a quick broom through the auditorium and then go read a newspaper for a couple of hours after the event so they can pad their overtime. If they're ever caught sleeping on the job, or leaving for a lengthy dinner while on the clock, nothing happens. Everyone is afraid to confront the union. The only time a custodian in our building was ever fired was when one was caught in the act of stealing from a teacher's purse - and even THAT rose a stink with the union!

 

The way I see it, unions are a two-edged sword. Without them, there is a chance that employers will take undue advantage of employees. With them, productivity plummets and this is a direct cause of U.S. jobs going to Third World countries. The solution to many of the problems in this regard lies in instilling and promoting a keen sense of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY on the part of everyone involved! (How to go about doing that is the million-dollar question.) Employers have a personal responsibility to treat their employees fairly and employees have a personal responsibility to put in an honest day's work for their wages.

[Live&DieBillsFootball]

Wow.  Please stay where you are and never move to the Mid-Atlantic.  Ever look at the attitudes of states and areas that love unions and then look at areas that are mostly against unions?  Please keep the unions up north, and keep all of the democrats up north while you're at it.  I'll gladly drive through, spend some southern money, root for the Bills,  and then come back to good ole conservative USA when the game is over.

 

Well, someday, compare Buffalo, Pittsburgh and others up north, to sprawling cities in the Mid-Atlantic.  Tell me which one works.  Thank god most people and companies here want to keep that union sh-- the hell outta here.  There is no comparison between the Mid-Atlantic states and up north.  I can see it when driving through all of the northern cities when on my way to a Bills game.  You look around and compare Buffalo and Pittsburgh and similar places and then think of here and it's un-comparable.  A recession?  Not in Virginia.

 

Well, Medicaid is one of the biggest problems in both Florida and Tenn.  25% of Walmart employees in Tenn are on Tenn Medicaid program.  Last time I looked FL and Tenn. were in the South.

 

I keep telling my uncle, a coal miner, to move, come down to Virginia, and I'll hire him as a maintenance guy for our county government. This would, in turn, move him outside to mainly cutting grass on athletic fields. Get him top of the line government benefits for him and his family. Start at about 35K a year. That usually goes up in VA about 7% every year.

236726[/snapback]

 

This sounds like the Giambra solution. Hire all of your relatives to overpaid government jobs. Pretty soon voters will smarten up and you and your uncle will be working at Wal-Mart for minimum wage and no benefits.

 

Other than union jobs, government jobs are the last places left that still provide fully paid medical and pension plans. Most private company have switched from pension plans to 401k plans. The next "crisis" coming along will be the underfunded government pension plans. Enjoy it while it lasts!

[Drew-to-Boys]

you are telling me that every american needs to start his own company.?

236685[/snapback]

 

Well in a way, yes. It's called "Me, Inc."

 

The days where you could sit back and expect to work 40 hours per week for 30 years at the same employer are long gone. To be successful today, you have to think in terms of maximizing every available avenue you have to make yourself more attractive to employers (education, training, flexible location requirement, etc.). Just like you were running your own company, with a payroll of one.

 

Unfortunately, that's a high-risk, high-stess proposition that most people aren't willing to make. It's a lot more comfortable to sit back, be a "passenger," and hope that some artificial protection from being part of a group will let you slide by.

 

In the long run, it doesn't work, however. It's all about risk-reward. Those who take little risk and are content to stay unmarketable, will always fall behind.

[Fan in San Diego]

This is the first job I've ever had in which I am part of a union... and, frankly, it feels kind of slimey to me. Every person in the school district belongs to one union or another, and I've never witnessed firsthand such a dysfunctional and inefficient system in action. At the non-union community college where I used to work, the atmosphere was totally the opposite: it was a model of helpfulness and efficiency!

 

Here, the custodians (janitors) are members of the teamsters union; they make a very decent wage ($25/hour to start) and they are absolutely the most worthless, lazy bunch of workers I have ever seen! If there's a broken bottle out in the parking lot, that's not the custodians' job - you have to "put in a work order" to have the district grounds crew come by and clean it up. (I just grab a broom and a dust pan and go clean it myself so no one gets hurt or gets a flat tire.) When they have to cover a basketball game in that may run until 8:00 PM, they COME IN EARLY so they can get at least three hours overtime... even though they normally work until 9:00 PM! I run the sound system for plays and musicals and often stay to pack up my equipment in the auditorium after everyone has left. (As a favor to the music department, I work "off the clock" so they don't have to pay me a ton of overtime. They give me a decent cash token of appreciation instead.) Anyway, the custodians run a quick broom through the auditorium and then go read a newspaper for a couple of hours after the event so they can pad their overtime. If they're ever caught sleeping on the job, or leaving for a lengthy dinner while on the clock, nothing happens. Everyone is afraid to confront the union. The only time a custodian in our building was ever fired was when one was caught in the act of stealing from a teacher's purse - and even THAT rose a stink with the union!

 

The way I see it, unions are a two-edged sword. Without them, there is a chance that employers will take undue advantage of employees. With them, productivity plummets and this is a direct cause of U.S. jobs going to Third World countries. The solution to many of the problems in this regard lies in instilling and promoting a keen sense of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY on the part of everyone involved! (How to go about doing that is the million-dollar question.) Employers have a personal responsibility to treat their employees fairly and employees have a personal responsibility to put in an honest day's work for their wages.

236765[/snapback]

 

I agree Moose. There are some positive things that Unions provide but when they push for things beyond reasonable limits they become an albatross around the companies neck. Unions need to realize this or face extinction.

[TheMadCap]

And by god.....if you need find employment, and live in a depressed area....MOVE!

236726[/snapback]

 

 

THANK YOU!!!!! That's what I have been trying to say....

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Unions had their place at one time. But as has been said, they're the reason jobs are going overseas and productivity has plummeted. Now not everyone in a union is lazy, but the environment fosters it and more than a few take advantage of that.

[AKC]

This is the first job I've ever had in which I am part of a union... and, frankly, it feels kind of slimey to me.

236765[/snapback]

 

You're of course, absolutely right in your observations that have been documented by everyone before you who has been exposed the the inefficiencies of socialist influenced work forces. How many times does one have to go into a Post Office or DMV and see the lazy, inept work force "go on break" just as you reach their window and contrast that with a visit to 7-11 where the employees are easily as well trained as any posty (money orders, lottery, etc.) yet when the 7-11 line gets long they grab everyone in the building to answer the demand. The funny thing about it is the 7-11 employees make about 1/3rd the pay!

 

The big problem though is that any beneficiary of socialism will find ways to support it, regardless of whther the balance sheet is far in the red.

[gmac17]

The way I see it, unions are a two-edged sword. Without them, there is a chance that employers will take undue advantage of employees. With them, productivity plummets and this is a direct cause of U.S. jobs going to Third World countries. The solution to many of the problems in this regard lies in instilling and promoting a keen sense of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY on the part of everyone involved! (How to go about doing that is the million-dollar question.) Employers have a personal responsibility to treat their employees fairly and employees have a personal responsibility to put in an honest day's work for their wages.

 

 

Exactly, great post.

[Rico]

How many times does one have to go into a Post Office or DMV and see the lazy, inept work force "go on break" just as you reach their window and contrast that with a visit to 7-11 where the employees are easily as well trained as any posty (money orders, lottery, etc.) yet when the 7-11 line gets long they grab everyone in the building to answer the demand. The funny thing about it is the 7-11 employees make about 1/3rd the pay!

236788[/snapback]

There's a very small Post Office not far from where I work at. They close & lock the doors every day from 12:45 to 1:30 PM so they can take their lunch break.

[Fan in San Diego]

There's a very small Post Office not far from where I work at. They close & lock the doors every day from 12:45 to 1:30 PM so they can take their lunch break.    

236797[/snapback]

 

There are always good examples as well. San Diego's City planning department is unionized and is pretty damn efficient for how busy it is on any given day.

[sweet baboo]

see Wegmans as an example for why union labor isn't necessary

[Zamboni Man]

Well in a way, yes. It's called "Me, Inc."

 

Exactly...I work a full time 2nd shift job, and I'm a full time student during the day. We don't have a union, but my medical insurance is free, I get 2 weeks of paid vacation, 401k, and an optional dental plan that comes at an enourmous 11 bucks a month. I could probably be the like the 30 somethings I work with that don't really care about where they'll end up and try and live off 10.50/11 bucks an hour, but there's no way I'm going to settle for that. My Grandad was in the UAW at the Ford Stamping Plant for years, and was in charge of retirement when he retired, and I grew up in the typical pro union household in Buffalo, but I honestly don't think there is anything that a union could do for me that I can't do for myself with hard work and a good education. Even more so now that I live in the south.

 

That being said, I don't think it's fair to pin unions as the reason that jobs are being shipped over seas, the textile industries down here didn't have nearly as much union power as the North still has and those jobs are long gone to Mexico and what not.

[sweet baboo]

I would'nt get out of bed for $28 an hour. I am a union rep and I make more than that due to my union. All you idiot union bashers just dont get it. I am able to take my kids on vacations and buy them the things they need and live comfortably due to the unions. So you would rather see the NY-Manhatten upper levels get all the profits and live in luxury instead of sharing the profits to the REAL people who made the company the money they enjoy? If it was'nt for my union, I would make $10 and hour with sh-- benefits just like you union bashers. My family enjoys the benefits of being in a union. And thats all that matters. Work your jobs for minimal pay and enjoy the fact that you can be fired for no reason and you have noone to turn to except for Mr.Molson.  :I starred in Brokeback Mountain:

236697[/snapback]

 

is this post a joke? i don't see how your post puts unions in a good light at all...this makes me despise unions even more

[N.Y. Orangeman]

This thread makes me absolutely ashamed to be a Bills fan. From the callousness of those who have worked hard AND been fortunate to the general insults, this thread is a new low for the board.

 

Buffalo and WNY in general is and always will be a blue collar, union town. Everyone knows someone who has been affected by a plant closing or a company moving out of town . Get a new job and make yourself marketable works for someon in their 30's and 40's; what do you tell the 57 year old with a wife and kids ready to go to college that has given nearly 30 years to his company? Sorry sir, maybe you should have seen this coming 30 years ago and studied harder. Don't you think that person wakes up and thinks the same thing? Anything you say in this regard is salt in the wounds.

 

I'm happy many of you have found success in WNY and outside of the area. Try being a bit more charitable to those who haven't had the success you have. For those of you who have left the area, I'd ask you to remember your the roots of your community and show a little class.

 

P.S. I'm white collar mgt, work in the life science industry and a liberal Republican.

[eSJayDee]

Philosophically, I'm opposed to unions, but I realize that in some instances, they're a necessary evil.

We live in a capitalist or free market society, where the cost of things is determined by supply & demand. We have laws (anti-trust, monopoly) prohibiting companies from acting in a way counter to these intentions, yet we allow the work force to do so.

It's most 'fair' if I'm able to freely negotiate my level of compensation (including benefits & working conditions) w/ my prospective employer.

The reason that (in some instances) that unions benefit all is that they (hopefully) expedite the finding of equilibrium between supply & demand.

The discussion of whether or not unions are good or bad is a very intensive one, but I think it's safe to say that they essentially serve the same purpose as insurance. Overall, they're detrimental (i.e. cost more than their benefit) but in the case of unions, hopefully their collective bargaining abilities to lessen the inefficiencies (& cost) of finding equilibrium is sufficient to offset their cost.

For something like the NFL or NHL I think they're clearly a poor & unnecessary idea.

[Spikes16]

Talk about the ultimate LAMP post...  You post the same thing in the other thread, but have to break this out separate?  THAT says it all.

 

CW

236757[/snapback]

 

Yes , LAMA, I wanted to make a seperate post to discuss this issue again. You have a problem with that? Are you an administrator? I am close personally to this topic and I wanted to make my union views apparent. Sorry if that offended you.

[millbank]

Yes , LAMA, I wanted to make a seperate post to discuss this issue again. You have a problem with that? Are you an administrator? I am close personally to this topic and I wanted to make my union views apparent. Sorry if that offended you.   :I starred in Brokeback Mountain:

236835[/snapback]

 

 

good for you that you have a opinion, but the red smilies and devils are not necessary they are disrespectful and rude....... Fezmid is a friend to many here , knock it off