Crap Throwing Monkey Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Do you really think labor cost is determined by fair supply and demand? There is the free movement of capital, but there is no free movement of labor. Or have you tried to get a job in China recently? 365415[/snapback] Conversely, do you think it's determined by guys who brag about not getting out of bed for less than $28/hr? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Gant Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Conversely, do you think it's determined by guys who brag about not getting out of bed for less than $28/hr? 365692[/snapback] If I had my MBA and spoke Mandarin as well as English , i might not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spun Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 One interesting spice to throw into the pot is how every time there is discussion about raising the minimum wage business operators are up in arms claiming that they will have to lay off workers or even go out of business. I mean just how little do business operators wish to pay people and feel that that level is acceptable? Maybe the business operator should factor in the raise in the minimum wage before going into business or, get out of business altogether. This debate is even more interesting when considering that the national minimum wage has differing value depending on what part of the country one is referring to. In some parts of the country working people live in the street or field out of choice but for others it is because they can't afford to pay rent. Believe it or not this does happen in this country. I know some (most) would say then that underpaid person should find better paying work and trim their personal expenses. I agree. That is the smartest way to go. But in the meantime, the person is still homeless and still underpaid. Albeit, it is an extreme example but it underlies the fact that unions (and the threat thereof) boost wages, increase labor and product / service prices and sometimes enable people to buy more. The bottom line is that unions force a redistribution of wealth. Unions and business abuse each other. Usually some one ends up feeling slighted. Somebody profits more and somebody profits less. And who wants to profit less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemur King Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 That's all well and good. Hope we never fight another war with the Japanese. 365279[/snapback] What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 If I had my MBA and spoke Mandarin as well as English , i might not. 365840[/snapback] You really need to learn Cantonese. Serious stuff going down in Hong Kong, make money-wise. They don't use Mandarin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Imagine that. A union guy protecting the institution that allows him to be a lazy $h*t. The place of the union in our society has long outlived it's usefulness. I'd quit my job before I was ever forced to join a stinkin' union. There's union idiots protesting here in Rochester because companies have decided to use cheaper American labor from Syracuse and Buffalo. These are people who work in skilled trades like masonry. They'd rather have a cookout in front of Kohl's than work. Lazy bastards. And at the same time I can't find a decent mason to fix my front porch. Lazy bastards would rather picket than earn a fair wage. Unions suck ass. I've got so many dumbass union stories just from working 6 years at Kodak I could write a book. 365686[/snapback] Broad generalizations such as the above serve only to make you sound like an idiot. Is your boss around? If so, wipe off your knees, clean yourself up, wait until he leaves and spew some more idiocy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Broad generalizations such as the above serve only to make you sound like an idiot. Is your boss around? If so, wipe off your knees, clean yourself up, wait until he leaves and spew some more idiocy. 366196[/snapback] Come on Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Come on Bill. 366197[/snapback] What? I resent the "union idiots" remark, and his condescending stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Broad generalizations such as the above serve only to make you sound like an idiot. Is your boss around? If so, wipe off your knees, clean yourself up, wait until he leaves and spew some more idiocy. 366196[/snapback] Relax, Bill. My opinions are valid, and personal insults directed at me won't change that. I've never seen any evidence that supports otherwise. Of course, my experience with unions is only that of skilled and unskilled trades, and not others like police and teachers. Frankly, it will take an epiphany to change my opinion. If you've got one handy, toss it my way. Otherwise, get back to the REAL Bill I know who is willing to disagree, but still enjoy a beer and a smoke (ouside of course) with fellow Bills fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Gant Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Unions suck ass. I've got so many dumbass union stories just from working 6 years at Kodak I could write a book. 365686[/snapback] I don't think I would have survived childhood without the medical benefits my father got with his Union package. Having said that, I used to negotiate for a company against its Union, and Unions are often their own worst enemy. Most companies get the unions they deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Broad generalizations such as the above serve only to make you sound like an idiot. 366196[/snapback] You mean broad generalizations like this?? You can't have it both ways Bill. Maybe what you mean is that you only like your broad generalizations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 You mean broad genralizations like this?? You can't have it both ways Bill. Maybe what you mean is that you only like your broad generalizations? 366599[/snapback] Jeezus, talk about a topic that won't die. It's like a neverending game of whack-a-mole. It just keeps on popping up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Gant Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Wal-mart the Movie Coming soon!!! http://www.walmartmovie.com/cover.php?track=rgemail2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 Relax, Bill. My opinions are valid, and personal insults directed at me won't change that. I've never seen any evidence that supports otherwise. Of course, my experience with unions is only that of skilled and unskilled trades, and not others like police and teachers. Frankly, it will take an epiphany to change my opinion. If you've got one handy, toss it my way. Otherwise, get back to the REAL Bill I know who is willing to disagree, but still enjoy a beer and a smoke (ouside of course) with fellow Bills fans. 366489[/snapback] That was a great example of disarming someone. You should have been a cop. I took offense because my father (rest his soul) was a union construction worker. He was not lazy. He walked across I Beams and welded in the hot sun, at times 40 stories in the air. He also braved the cold and wind, and many of his co-workers died on the job in accidents. He would come home and work around the house, coach baseball, and do housework. Toward the end, he was actually a converted Bills fan. It looks like the jests this year. It is the only game the 4 of us can make. Please, meet us at 1/5 if you can. Btw, it will certainly not be enough for John Adams, but I am sorry to have lost control and said things that it is too late to take back. I remember being quite concerned for you when you were between jobs. I always wish you well. Again, sorry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 You mean broad generalizations like this?? You can't have it both ways Bill. Maybe what you mean is that you only like your broad generalizations? 366599[/snapback] JA, I am sitting here laughing. WHY are you obsessed with me? If you wish to pick apart my every thought and emotion, you will find me to be FAR less than perfect. Hey, you have already proven as much! Some friendly advice.......come down from your high horse. Try it. Pretend for a moment that you are not some superior being and have a down to earth conversation. Believe it or not you might learn something. It might also be more fun that being a holier than thou bore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 JA, I am sitting here laughing. WHY are you obsessed with me? If you wish to pick apart my every thought and emotion, you will find me to be FAR less than perfect. Hey, you have already proven as much! Some friendly advice.......come down from your high horse. Try it. Pretend for a moment that you are not some superior being and have a down to earth conversation. Believe it or not you might learn something. It might also be more fun that being a holier than thou bore. 367422[/snapback] You forgot: "P.S. You're gay" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 You forgot: "P.S. You're gay" 367430[/snapback] He will blame ME for that remark and pick apart my every sentence for another 6 months. Hey, whatever. Let him enjoy himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC-Bills Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 I agree with the reasoning why a union was created in the first place. It made sense, it looked out for the common man who worked hard and put pride into his work. In my experiences in today's society, most, not all, unions have lost touch with their original purpose. I have my own stories of seeing uinion workers who do half-assed jobs and feel they are entitled to four 15 minute breaks every hour, or get promoted because of seniority as opposed to merit. Which is unfortunate, since I have also seen examples of union workers who do give a damn about their job, work hard at it, and make every effort to make sure it's done right the first time.. I have also been in environments where a union could helpful since some people I knew were terminated for no legitimate and justifiable reason. Trying to reconcile the differences between these two view points is definitely not an easy process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 Trying to reconcile the differences between these two view points is definitely not an easy process. 367490[/snapback] Sometimes it is. The AFT was a client of mine for about three years. They are the quintessential example of a terminally useless union, and if they disappeared from the face of the planet their union members would not only not suffer for it but would probably be better off simply for not having the union leeching off them. (In fact, I've known union stewards who've become rabidly anti-union after dealing with the AFT for six weeks.) On the other hand, everything Bill in NYC's told me about the leadership in the NYCPD's union makes me believe that that particular union does some good, at the very least. Ditto things I've heard from people here concerning the DC steelworkers' local. So I'm willing to stipulate that they're not all bad, and judge them on a case-by-case basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 I think Unions for Police and Fire are inherently necessary, as they deal with the BS spewed at them from our society's biggest crooks. They NYFD didn't get a raise for 3 years after 911, as I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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