Conservatism is Compassionate

[DC Tom]

 

Here's the problem, if you weren't so angry and quick to lash out at anything that goes against your (limited) view of the world you might actually have understood that material you cited did NOT prove your point. You wound up re-proving my point. Which is what I hoped for when I read the material I linked for you. I was pretty sure you wouldn't read it closely (which you didn't) and would try to throw it back in my face (two for two), I just didn't expect the hook to still be lodged in your throat.

 

Read the snippet you posted again, this time read closely:

 

As the nation's central bank, the Federal Reserve derives its authority from the Congress of the United States. It is considered an independent central bank because its monetary policy decisions do not have to be approved by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branches of government, it does not receive funding appropriated by the Congress, and the terms of the members of the Board of Governors span multiple presidential and congressional terms.

 

However, the Federal Reserve is subject to oversight by the Congress, which often reviews the Federal Reserve's activities and can alter its responsibilities by statute. Therefore, the Federal Reserve can be more accurately described as "independent within the government" rather than "independent of government."

 

See, the Federal Reserve nor the US Government want to openly advertise that the Fed is not a part of the US Government because if they did people might get mad when they figure out the game is rigged. That's why they jump through hoops to give themselves the appearance of being a government institution on their website -- without actually saying they are. Oh, wait! I know! They say right at the end that they're "Independent within government rather than independent of government"... that means they're part of the government, right?

 

No. It does not. It says, for all those who can actually read and understand the words on the page, that they are an INDEPENDENT CENTRAL BANK. Independent within the government is another way of saying they're unaccountable to the US voters or their government, despite their verbal gymnastics. So, again, the cited material does not support your point, it refutes it.

 

Which is why it's hilarious that you're leaning on it as some sort of trump card. That makes all the rest of this:

 

 

...Priceless. Because despite your fervor, you're still demonstrably incorrect.

 

That's a lot of typing that you could have skipped just by pointing out: it's the Gatorman Fallacy all over again.

 

I really ought to publish that. There's very few discoveries in logic these days that are as foundational as a brand new fallacy.

 

The Federal Reserve is a group of private banks working together for their mutual benefit (not ours nor the government's) despite being competitors. This makes them a cartel technically -- an association of businesses with the purpose of maintaining prices at a high level and restricting competition. This is what the Federal Reserve is at its core, a group of private banks working together to keep competition beneficial to them all.

 

You know what else is part of the government? Major League Baseball. Because they're a cartel legally exempt from anti-trust laws, just like the Federal Reserve.

 

Gatorman logic is fun sometimes. In small doses. Too much starts to hurt. A lot.

[Tiberius]

See, the Federal Reserve nor the US Government want to openly advertise that the Fed is not a part of the US Government because if they did people might get mad when they figure out the game is rigged. That's why they jump through hoops to give themselves the appearance of being a government institution on their website -- without actually saying they are. Oh, wait! I know! They say right at the end that they're "Independent within government rather than independent of government"... that means they're part of the government, right?

Conspiracy theory nonsense. No, they want to insulate our economic system from popular pressure because most people--especially conspiracy nuts like you--would get the politicians to do stupid things. It's a matter of letting the experts make the decisions.

 

This is a lot like you stating the "Elites" want the NSA to spy on everyone and keep it secret and all that trash. Play all the words games you want--obfuscate!--but you are still wrong.

 

Can you tell us how the game is rigged, as you say? Love to hear this. I'm sure your lap dog Tom will eat up every word of it

No. It does not. It says, for all those who can actually read and understand the words on the page, that they are an INDEPENDENT CENTRAL BANK. Independent within the government is another way of saying they're unaccountable to the US voters or their government, despite their verbal gymnastics. So, again, the cited material does not support your point, it refutes it.

You are actually stating that the law that created the Federal Reserve can't be changed? That's some funny sh it right there!! Where did you get that from? You are wrong here also. If the Fed is not doing it's mission, or is corrupt, or "rigging the system" Mr. Conspiracy theory, it can be changed. Take off the tin foil hat for just a second

 

My God you are an idiot.

[Deranged Rhino]

Conspiracy theory nonsense. No, they want to insulate our economic system from popular pressure because most people--especially conspiracy nuts like you--would get the politicians to do stupid things. It's a matter of letting the experts make the decisions.

 

This is a lot like you stating the "Elites" want the NSA to spy on everyone and keep it secret and all that trash. Play all the words games you want--obfuscate!--but you are still wrong.

 

Can you tell us how the game is rigged, as you say? Love to hear this. I'm sure your lap dog Tom will eat up every word of it

 

It's not a conspiracy theory, their website says exactly what I am telling you.

 

And I never once, not once, have used the word elites in that context. When you use these thingies " " that means you're quoting someone. Please refrain from misquoting me. You might actually learn some stuff if you bother to open your eyes a bit more.

[Tiberius]

The Federal Reserve System, the central bank of the United States, conducts the nation's monetary policy, supervises and regulates banks, and provides a variety of financial services to the U.S. government and to the nation's banks.

 

http://www.newyorkfed.org/aboutthefed/fedpoint/fed46.html

 

Sure looks like a Federal Regulatory agency to me....

[Deranged Rhino]

http://www.newyorkfed.org/aboutthefed/fedpoint/fed46.html

 

Sure looks like a Federal Regulatory agency to me....

 

It's not. And nothing, absolutely nothing, in that link says it is.

[Tiberius]

 

It's not a conspiracy theory, their website says exactly what I am telling you.

 

And I never once, not once, have used the word elites in that context. When you use these thingies " " that means you're quoting someone. Please refrain from misquoting me. You might actually learn some stuff if you bother to open your eyes a bit more.

 

Ok! Let's go! How about explaining how the system is rigged, and for who and by who? Can we start there? I'm all ears

 

And please don't tell me you never said something when you did. It reminds me if when you were screaming your head off about how I brought up the Nazis and Lap Dog Tom jumped in on the chorus and it turned out you actually brought it up! Too funny. Remember that? Of course you don't, lol

 

It's not. And nothing, absolutely nothing, in that link says it is.

The Federal Reserve System, the central bank of the United States, conducts the nation's monetary policy, supervises and regulates banks, and provides a variety of financial services to the U.S. government and to the nation's banks.

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

 

Ok! Let's go! How about explaining how the system is rigged, and for who and by who? Can we start there? I'm all ears

 

And please don't tell me you never said something when you did. It reminds me if when you were screaming your head off about how I brought up the Nazis and Lap Dog Tom jumped in on the chorus and it turned out you actually brought it up! Too funny. Remember that? Of course you don't, lol

 

I've never, once, ever used the term elites in the manner you claim I have.

[Tiberius]

 

I've never, once, ever used the term elites in the manner you claim I have.

I want to learn. Explain what you said about rigging the system.

[Deranged Rhino]

The game is rigged because we are using a fiat money system (one not backed by a physical commodity), meaning the value of the dollar (which is just a note from the private banks known as the Fed) is only worth what people think it's worth. The reason why prices go up is not because the products cost more, but because the value of the dollar has dropped (the dollar has dropped 95% since 1914). The Fed, literally, can create money out of nothing -- since it's not measured against anything of value other than the perception of the dollar itself. It costs them nothing to create more money, in fact, they get to charge interest off the money they create. It's a trick, one that works so long as people are willing to accept the dollar as currency.

[DC Tom]

 

Ok! Let's go! How about explaining how the system is rigged, and for who and by who? Can we start there? I'm all ears

 

And please don't tell me you never said something when you did. It reminds me if when you were screaming your head off about how I brought up the Nazis and Lap Dog Tom jumped in on the chorus and it turned out you actually brought it up! Too funny. Remember that? Of course you don't, lol

 

Supervisory and regulatory authority doesn't make it governmental, you dumbass. There's plenty of organizations that are supervisory or regulatory, but non-governmental.

[Deranged Rhino]

The Federal Reserve System, the central bank of the United States, conducts the nation's monetary policy, supervises and regulates banks, and provides a variety of financial services to the U.S. government and to the nation's banks.

 

What do you think that bolded section means? It doesn't mean it's part of the US Government, in fact, it's stating quite clearly that it is an independent entity. Yes, they supervise and regulate the banks -- because THEY ARE THE BANKS. That does not mean they are a part of the US Government. The US Government is their customer.

[Azalin]

 

What do you think that bolded section means? It doesn't mean it's part of the US Government, in fact, it's stating quite clearly that it is an independent entity. Yes, they supervise and regulate the banks -- because THEY ARE THE BANKS. That does not mean they are a part of the US Government. The US Government is their customer.

 

If he actually read anything that you, I, or anyone else has linked for him, he'd get it. He obviously doesn't, so either he didn't read a damned thing, he's simply trolling, or he's truly the most stupid individual ever to draw a breath. You may as well try to teach a squid to grill fajitas.

[Chef Jim]

I'm waiting for gator to tell us that FINRA is a government agency.

[Azalin]

I'm waiting for gator to tell us that FINRA is a government agency.

 

You mean like the WWE?

[Tiberius]

You know what else is part of the government? Major League Baseball. Because they're a cartel legally exempt from anti-trust laws, just like the Federal Reserve.

 

Gatorman logic is fun sometimes. In small doses. Too much starts to hurt. A lot.

 

Really? Does the President appoint the commissioner of MLB? And have the power to remove him if he has done something illegal? When did you become such an idiot? What happened to you?

 

Supervisory and regulatory authority doesn't make it governmental, you dumbass. There's plenty of organizations that are supervisory or regulatory, but non-governmental.

Are there? How many have people appointed by the President and approved by Congress?

 

What do you think that bolded section means? It doesn't mean it's part of the US Government, in fact, it's stating quite clearly that it is an independent entity. Yes, they supervise and regulate the banks -- because THEY ARE THE BANKS. That does not mean they are a part of the US Government. The US Government is their customer.

You wrote that they don't do that! Now you are saying they are. Just like how you posted a link that proved my point, so you said they were lying, lol. You are a crazy person.

 

If he actually read anything that you, I, or anyone else has linked for him, he'd get it. He obviously doesn't, so either he didn't read a damned thing, he's simply trolling, or he's truly the most stupid individual ever to draw a breath. You may as well try to teach a squid to grill fajitas.

Like the link he posted, that I showed proved MY point, that he then said was a lie?

 

So do you agree with him that the government is conspiring to hides its true role about federal reserve? You agree this is a conspiracy, right?

 

Get another tinfoil hat out!

The game is rigged because we are using a fiat money system (one not backed by a physical commodity), meaning the value of the dollar (which is just a note from the private banks known as the Fed) is only worth what people think it's worth. The reason why prices go up is not because the products cost more, but because the value of the dollar has dropped (the dollar has dropped 95% since 1914). The Fed, literally, can create money out of nothing -- since it's not measured against anything of value other than the perception of the dollar itself. It costs them nothing to create more money, in fact, they get to charge interest off the money they create. It's a trick, one that works so long as people are willing to accept the dollar as currency.

Oh, and what should money be backed with? Please answer this, I know you won't because you are a crazy conspiracy theory nut

 

And you are saying things can't cost more--rise in prices--because of scarcity? Economists would disagree with you

 

Yes, money can be created out of nothing, because it literally is nothing you total idiot! That's the point, it a measure of value that people trust and it works!

[Azalin]

 

Like the link he posted, that I showed proved MY point, that he then said was a lie?

 

So do you agree with him that the government is conspiring to hides its true role about federal reserve? You agree this is a conspiracy, right?

 

Get another tinfoil hat out!

 

What the hell are you talking about? You can't possibly be reading half of what you're replying to. Go back and read what I posted, and when you do, READ IT THIS TIME.

[Deranged Rhino]

You wrote that they don't do that! Now you are saying they are. Just like how you posted a link that proved my point, so you said they were lying, lol. You are a crazy person.

 

I did not write that. I wrote the Federal Reserve is not a part of the US Government nor an agency of the US Government. They are a private entity comprised of private banks, which they regulate as a cartel.

Like the link he posted, that I showed proved MY point, that he then said was a lie?

 

So do you agree with him that the government is conspiring to hides its true role about federal reserve? You agree this is a conspiracy, right?

 

Get another tinfoil hat out!

 

It didn't prove your point, and still doesn't. The Federal Reserve, despite your tantrum, is not a part of the US Government. This is undeniable, even by their own website -- which you quoted. And I never said the government is "hiding" anything, I just said they don't advertise the relationship and are perfectly happy when low information folks such as yourself assume that just because they're called The FEDERAL Reserve they mus be part of the federal government. They most certainly are not.

 

And you've yet to demonstrate that they are. Because, it's not possible to do so.

Oh, and what should money be backed with? Please answer this, I know you won't because you are a crazy conspiracy theory nut

 

And you are saying things can't cost more--rise in prices--because of scarcity? Economists would disagree with you

 

Yes, money can be created out of nothing, because it literally is nothing you total idiot! That's the point, it a measure of value that people trust and it works!

 

Money should be a measure of value of something tangible. The dollar is not a measure of value because it is not based on any commodity -- like gold or silver. That's a very dangerous way to operate, as history has shown and is currently bearing out. The dollar has dropped like a stone in value over the past century of the Fed's existence. That's not a coincidence and has nothing to do with scarcity (I assure you). It has to do with inflation -- which is just one of the ways the private banks (aka the Fed) gets the public to cover the cost of their magic trick. The banks profit from the interest, the politicians profit from the ability to literally create money from nothing to fund whatever they need, and we the public get stuck with the tab.

 

That's the game. And it's most certainly rigged.

Edited July 20, 2015 by GreggyT

[Azalin]

 

. And I never said the government is "hiding" anything, I just said they don't advertise the relationship and are perfectly happy when low information folks such as yourself assume that just because they're called The FEDERAL Reserve they mus be part of the federal government. They most certainly are not.

 

And you've yet to demonstrate that they are. Because, it's not possible to do so.

 

Oh, come on. Next you'll try to say that Federal Express isn't a government agency.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

Oh, come on. Next you'll try to say that Federal Express isn't a government agency.

 

So true. I don't know what I'm thinking. Must be the tinfoil hat being too tight.

[DC Tom]

Really? Does the President appoint the commissioner of MLB? And have the power to remove him if he has done something illegal? When did you become such an idiot? What happened to you?

 

The President can't remove the Chairman of the Fed, either. Nor can Congress. Because neither has any authority over the Fed. Because the legislative mandate for the Fed places the fed OUTSIDE THE AUTHORITY OF THE GOVERNMENT.

 

 

Are there? How many have people appointed by the President and approved by Congress?

 

Will you pick a definition of "part of the government" and stick with it, dumbass? You just said it was "has supervisory and regulatory authority." Now that you got your ass handed to you on that, you're back to "people are appointed by the President," on which you also got your ass handed to you. You've also quoted the legislative authority setting it up, on which you've ALSO got your ass handed to you.

 

Just pick a definition, and stick with it. It'll still be indefensible...but you'll look like less of a fool than you do now, trying to defend indefensible positions by assuming other indefensible positions.

 

Oh, come on. Next you'll try to say that Federal Express isn't a government agency.

 

Of course they are. They operate airplanes and trucks, which means they fall under the authority of the FAA and NTSB. They're also a publicly traded company, so they're regulated by the SEC and HHS.