John from Riverside Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Love me some Ghostbusters....WHY remake it?! Because Hollywood is running out of ideas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I think the point is that just proves how awful Wannestedt was and how Gailey underestimated how long he had been away from the NFL. The Bills' DC was one of the best job opportunities in the league the last 2 years. Pettine inherited a defense that had no where to go but up. Schwartz inherited a much better defense but stil lwas bad agaisnt the run. But these were perfect opportunites that almost any non moron could do well in. No - it proves Marrone picked good DCs and Gailey picked a bad one. Seriously some people here can't give credit where it is due. I get that you hate Marrone.... but failing to recognise that he got some things right just makes you look ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 and ill say, i still think he was told to try to locate the ball in spots that were hard for the defender when taking the downfield outside shots. his placement was pretty consistent from my own gut reaction -- it was just consistently very conservative in a "if the WR makes a great play or a flag comes out, cool, but no risk for turnover" way. very rare were the aggressive downfield shots where a qb could be described as "letting it rip" but we did see a fair number of throws right on the sideline where it was tough to make a play. I think that will be one of the first things that the new staff will try to coach out of EJ Manuel....... My quesiton is.....if EJ goes from ultra conservative on the turnover department to gunslinger, interception prone, but big play QB.....will he still be crucified There was at least one downfield throw that was perfectly placed and Grimes just made a hell of a play on it. It was to Sammy. Doesn't mean anything more than that's one that could have gone his way based on his part in the play, but worth noting. I was rewatching that game last night and that pass you mentioned. That pass from Sammy from EJ with Grimes covering I dont know how EJ could not have been any more perfect on that throw.........he threw it so Sammy could run full speed under it......the ball was dropped "in the garbage can" where the only way Grimes could make a play on the ball was to reach into through Sammies body....Sammy actually got the end of the ball with his hands for a brief instant.........and Grimes makes a perfect play If Sammy hauls that in that play would go down as one of the best deep throws of last season as far as accuracy from a QB.......and who knows where things go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I'm sorry but that article is just terrible. If you ever need a textbook example of cherry picking, bookmark that sucker. It's a classic case of forming an agenda first (laud EJ; disparage Marrone), and then attempt to manipulate and contort data until you can fool someone into believing said agenda has merit. By the end of that atrocity I fully expected the author to attempt to statistically blame Marrone for the Clinton prison escape. That piece is the product of a man with no statistical background, a rudimentary grasp of algebra, and way, way, way too much offseason Kool-Aid. It's also what happens when you delve too deep into the numbers and don't watch the actual games (he does have a future in politics however) Agreed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 No - it proves Marrone picked good DCs and Gailey picked a bad one. Seriously some people here can't give credit where it is due. I get that you hate Marrone.... but failing to recognise that he got some things right just makes you look ridiculous. Oh please. I'm sure the fact our defense is loaded with 1st and 2nd round picks and we made Mario the highest paid defensive player in history had nothing to do with it. Talent wins on defense because it's more reactionary. All the last DCs prove is how terrible Wanny was. Prediction: our DC is going to be really good again and I'm not even sure who are DC officially is. But let's say Marrone was a genius at picking DCs to magically make our super talented defense good. He was that bad in picking his OC and handling the oline. 2 things he had a direct impact on. But fine, I would have been ok with Marrone picking DCs for our super talented defense again as long as that was all he would do. #2 in the NFL. They were in a 3 way tie for 14th place in average ypc. That is all about play design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 He was coached to take the aggression out of his game. That said, Manuel plays too cautiously. He needs more FU. I think he should punch out one of the reporters at camp. It will set the tone nicely. Make it two, BuckyandSully, they act like children so why not treat them like children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 My quesiton is.....if EJ goes from ultra conservative on the turnover department to gunslinger, interception prone, but big play QB.....will he still be crucified on the brightside, i think rex will be less prone to care what fans and the media think. so i dont care if hes crucified, as long as hes executing his OCs plan properly and in a manner they find effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 The author of this article is on 1270 am right now and he is damning Doug Marrone and his handling of EJ Manuel. Says EJ Manuel had the 4th best passer rating in 2013 after his first four games before Marrone changed the play calling. Only Rodgers, Romo and Manning were better!! Manuel had a 89 passer rating before being benched last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 on the brightside, i think rex will be less prone to care what fans and the media think. so i dont care if hes crucified, as long as hes executing his OCs plan properly and in a manner they find effective. Rex is one of those kinds of coaches that would cover his QB up by bringing the attention to himself........ It will be interesting to see how this all plays out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) My money is on metzelaars_lives to chime in first. GO BILLS!!! Contrary to popular belief, I'm not on a crusade to tell anyone how terrible EJ is. I have only maintained that I am highly skeptical that he develops into a franchise qb, that's all. Most sound football minds would and do agree with me. I hope he does though, obviously. As others have stated, this conversation has grown tired and it's time to stop talking about it and see what the guy actually does on the field the last week in July on. Edited July 17, 2015 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Contrary to popular belief, I'm not on a crusade to tell anyone how terrible EJ is. I have only maintained that I am highly skeptical that he develops into a franchise qb, that's all. Most sound football minds would and do agree with me. I hope he does though, obviously. As others have stated, this conversation has grown tired and it's time to stop talking about it and see what the guy actually does on the field the last week in July on. If your looking for a total EJ hater that would be Firechan..... I would say that there has been some progression in EJ...... Last year's workouts and training camp......All QBs horrible including EJ This years workouts and training camp.....EJ has had his moments......and training camp has not yet happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 The author of this article is on 1270 am right now and he is damning Doug Marrone and his handling of EJ Manuel. Says EJ Manuel had the 4th best passer rating in 2013 after his first four games before Marrone changed the play calling. Only Rodgers, Romo and Manning were better!! Manuel had a 89 passer rating before being benched last year. What? No he didn't. I can't wait for this to be settled once and for all. But if this article helps the EJ dreamers sleep better then I guess enjoy basking in your 'blame it on Marrone' glory for a few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 What? No he didn't. I can't wait for this to be settled once and for all. But if this article helps the EJ dreamers sleep better then I guess enjoy basking in your 'blame it on Marrone' glory for a few days. I think the "Blame it on Marrone" could be quite warranted...... But its not just QB.....QBs dont play well when OL's dont block Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Running the ball 70+% of the time on first down is insane, unless maybe you have a historically great running game. (Like maybe Dallas last year?) I noticed this just watching the games - it was incredibly frustrating to see us run the ball seemingly every first down. Obviously it wasn't literally every first down, but it seemed like it. Those first-down runs were generally unsuccessful, but we just kept on calling them over and over. I'm pleasantly surprised to see that, even during the run-dominated quagmire, Manuel's first-down passing was pretty good. His passing overall wasn't up to par, but maybe he can get up to average/passable just with improved playcalling. I.e., still be the wildly inconsistent guy we've seen through 15 games, but have more success just from being put in better positions. Of course, the big caveat is sample size - when you only pass 30% of the time on 1st down, there's not a lot of 1st down passes to draw a conclusion from. Still, better good results in a small sample than bad results in a small sample. Which seemed to always leave the Bills in 3 / long situations forced to throw: Which generally didn't work out well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) Contrary to popular belief, I'm not on a crusade to tell anyone how terrible EJ is. I have only maintained that I am highly skeptical that he develops into a franchise qb, that's all. Most sound football minds would and do agree with me. I hope he does though, obviously. As others have stated, this conversation has grown tired and it's time to stop talking about it and see what the guy actually does on the field the last week in July on. please list these sound football minds for us. Pete Prisco? his dislike for the team is notable Any one of the hacks form ESPN? The author of this article is on 1270 am right now and he is damning Doug Marrone and his handling of EJ Manuel. Says EJ Manuel had the 4th best passer rating in 2013 after his first four games before Marrone changed the play calling. Only Rodgers, Romo and Manning were better!! Manuel had a 89 passer rating before being benched last year. We know that he played well enough... (Check your %) you just can not convince the detractors of it. Edited July 17, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/ManuEJ00/gamelog// 2014 completion % of 60.24. In the first game EJ's pass efficiency was 72.73% !!!! EJ's passer rating in 2014 was 91.7, 98.6, 85.2, and 59.4 96.3 in the first 3 games87.05 after game 4 re stats - through 3 games YES he did, through 4 games no. the skycap, on 17 Jul 2015 - 12:52 PM, said: Manuel had a 89 passer rating before being benched last year. What? No he didn't. I can't wait for this to be settled once and for all. But if this article helps the EJ dreamers sleep better then I guess enjoy basking in your 'blame it on Marrone' glory for a few days. to be honest I can't wait for this to be settled once and for all and if EJ succeeds the haters will have a LOT of crow to eat. Edited July 17, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 If your looking for a total EJ hater that would be Firechan..... I would say that there has been some progression in EJ...... Last year's workouts and training camp......All QBs horrible including EJ This years workouts and training camp.....EJ has had his moments......and training camp has not yet happened I don't hate EJ, but I do find the acrobatics to defend him amusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) How does that detract from the credit Marrone deserves for the hires? Did they just turn up and say "Hello Mr Doug Marrone I am coming here to be your defensive coordinator because it could be good for my career"...... Or did Marrone not have some input into identifying them? The fact that the talent here made it easier to attract good people is neither here nor there really... we had a lot of that talent when we attracted Wannstedt. Marrone identified two good defensive coordinators and when people get so blinded by their hate for him that they try and downplay that they discredit their argument. Agree to disagree. Marrone may have picked from a short list Whaley put together or many options. I don't give credit to Marrone for it. I have no facts to give him credit or facts not to give him credit. However, choosing to give Marrone credit for anything I am guessing on is something I don't feel I need to do. Sometimes agents get involved and put their clients in good positions. Maybe Pettine and Schwartz's agent inquired? Oh, and I guess GunnerBill you were a Marrone supporter. Keep fighting the good fight. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Are you and Marrone both insane? No - it proves Marrone picked good DCs and Gailey picked a bad one. Seriously some people here can't give credit where it is due. I get that you hate Marrone.... but failing to recognise that he got some things right just makes you look ridiculous. Please refer to my comments above. I think the point is that just proves how awful Wannestedt was and how Gailey underestimated how long he had been away from the NFL. The Bills' DC was one of the best job opportunities in the league the last 2 years. Pettine inherited a defense that had no where to go but up. Schwartz inherited a much better defense but stil lwas bad agaisnt the run. But these were perfect opportunites that almost any non moron could do well in. It's very similar to the situation Roman is in. If he can help show real improvement in the offense, he will be a head coaching candidate. And I've said my piece about EJ. He certainly has his flaws but the offensive coaching staff he had his first 2 years was a joke. Exactly Edited July 17, 2015 by Manther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtDart Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 What? No he didn't. I can't wait for this to be settled once and for all. But if this article helps the EJ dreamers sleep better then I guess enjoy basking in your 'blame it on Marrone' glory for a few days. EJ dreamers lol. Can't wait until the haters eat crow....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I don't hate EJ, but I do find the acrobatics to defend him amusing. I believe the more appropriate phrase would be "keep an open mind and give him a chance." But that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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