"How a rookie HC derailed a rookie QB"/All-22 of EJ Manuel

[Big Blitz]

Abandoning EJ early in the season was the most competent thing Marrone did while he was here.

 

It's amazing to see people re-write history and/or just forget ... that one decision set the tone for us going on to have a "successful" season (by our standards).

 

 

Facts working against this argument. Kyle Orton was not good. He had moments. But the offense at times LOOKED WORSE than when EJ was in.

 

We stunk vs Detroit. We stunk vs the Vikings. We stunk vs the Browns. We stunk vs the Packers. All wins.

 

We stunk vs Oakland. We stunk vs the Chiefs.

 

Oline play. Coaching.

 

If both of these things are fixed, whoever the QB is we'll be better.

 

Edited July 22, 2015 by Big Blitz

[thewildrabbit]

You really think Nathaniel Hackett was in line for a raise? Come on man, try and think about that for a second. What scenario seems more likely? You can take it for what it's worth but I can assure you of how it went down.

Heck No!!

 

I was hoping he would have been fired after his first season as a play caller with his very predictable offensive play calling in the 70+% of the run plays right up the middle. I didn't think Marrone or Hackett deserved keeping their jobs much less a raise in pay and was quite alarmed when I had read that Pegula had approved it. I rejoiced when I had heard that Marrone opted out which meant his coaching staff was also probably gone with him. But then my heart sank when I read that Polian also opted out after Marrone quit.

 

 

 

I'm still not exactly certain as to what I believe as to how Marrone decided to depart the team. All I know is it seemed to fit that he asked for more power over personnel because of reading that he was upset, and walked out of the draft room after Whaley used the 2015 pick on Sammy. Plus the shouting match in the 2014 off season. Then not following the proper chain of command by calling Brandon instead of Whaley when Marrone learned that Orton would not be back for 2015.

 

"Marrone told insiders that he planned to go to Pegula after the season with a list of demands, which surely included more say over personnel and a diminishment of Whaley’s power. Why do you think Marrone called the owner when Kyle Orton retired, bypassing the usual chain of command?"

 

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/01/04/pegulas-are-learning-the-hard-way/

 

Then there is that shouting match in which I believe Marrone was unhappy with Whaley's choices of players for the line. From Chris Williams, Doug Legursky, Colin Brown, Sam Young to the 2014 draft picks. Whaley seems very adapt at finding top defensive players, and much less so for the offense. Particularly for the line.

 

The front office has also bristled at how certain players are being used, sources said. Team executives believe tackle Cyrus Kouandjio, this year's second-round pick, warranted more of a long look this summer, were unhappy that emerging receiver Robert Woods was benched at times, and they were also at odds over guard Kraig Urbik, who the personnel side believes is a quality guard (he just received a contract extension a few years back) but who Marrone has soured on (the team explored trades for Urbik before roster cuts, league sources said).

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24695455/buffalo-tension-boils-over-in-shouting-match-for-marrone-bills-officials

 

This article also mentions it.

 

"The window closes today, but he doesn’t appear to be going anywhere. I’m sure some Bills fans who wanted him fired after the Oakland loss worried this week about the prospects of losing him. He could wind up getting an extension, a pay raise and more say in personnel matters."

 

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2014/12/30/is-marrone-pitching-for-more-power/

 

Just saying, I didn't pull it out of thin air.

[Bangarang]

Not to discredit his rookie season, but did he win against a team that was over .500? That's kind of the big thing against EJ with some people so was just putting it out there.

If there is anyone here that would take EJ over Bridgewater or is on the fence about who is better then I know never to take anything they say seriously. Ever. I sincerely hope that nobody here feels that way.

[GunnerBill]

If there is anyone here that would take EJ over Bridgewater or is on the fence about who is better then I know never to take anything they say seriously. Ever. I sincerely hope that nobody here feels that way.

 

I agree. I don't think the same on Carr who was a mix of good and awful and is in many categories worse in his rookie year than EJ was but Bridgewater had a solid rookie year and improved on a pretty consistent arc as he went on and they gave him more of the playbook.

Edited July 22, 2015 by GunnerBill

[Solomon Grundy]

If there is anyone here that would take EJ over Bridgewater or is on the fence about who is better then I know never to take anything they say seriously. Ever. I sincerely hope that nobody here feels that way.

Bang, I was remember many on here crapping on Bridgewater because of what the "experts" we're saying after his pre-draft workout. I for one was a big fan of Bridgewater coming out of college and hoped the Bills would draft him. I, personally, would still like EJ over Bridgewater because of EJs arm strength, his stature, his mobility and his upside. I really believe we are going to see more of the 2013 EJ Manuel than last years version. EJ seems, to me, to have a major competitive spirit and wants to put his imprint on this team and the league. I think he will win over his team with his play, like he was doing his rookie season, and eventually the fans like Chan and Metz.

[GunnerBill]

I crapped on Bridgewater as a top 5 prospect. I said after the draft that the Vikings took him in right about the correct spot.... they played their draft very well.

[John from Riverside]

Maybe because EJ has better recievers and a top ten defense?

 

How do we know if EJ was a Pat and Tom Brady was a Bill he wouldn't be having more success?

 

Even if you want to argue that EJ stinking in games was because of the offense/Marrone, that doesn't account him stinking in practice.

Your bias really betrays you.....

 

EJ did not STINK in games....he was inconsistant but he had good play mixed with bad play

 

That does not constitute stink......that actually sounds like a rookie QB

[FireChan]

Your bias really betrays you.....

 

EJ did not STINK in games....he was inconsistant but he had good play mixed with bad play

 

That does not constitute stink......that actually sounds like a rookie QB

How do we know EJ wouldn't have more success than Tom Brady?

[John from Riverside]

If there is anyone here that would take EJ over Bridgewater or is on the fence about who is better then I know never to take anything they say seriously. Ever. I sincerely hope that nobody here feels that way.

I myself would lean towards bridgewater because I thought he was a an excellent QB coming out in a good QB class.......where as EJ came out in a horrible class

 

but

 

Its not about where they are when you draft them....it is about where they will be when they hit their ceilings. If EJ can figure some things out he would make a VERY good QB

How do we know EJ wouldn't have more success than Tom Brady?

Sorry not the point and dont change the subject.

 

You routinely through little key words into your posts that give away your true feelings.

 

There is no giving a "chance" with EJ with you. You have made up your mind. Now it is all about stopping the paroting of things that are not true.

[FireChan]

I myself would lean towards bridgewater because I thought he was a an excellent QB coming out in a good QB class.......where as EJ came out in a horrible class

 

but

 

Its not about where they are when you draft them....it is about where they will be when they hit their ceilings. If EJ can figure some things out he would make a VERY good QB

 

Sorry not the point and dont change the subject.

 

You routinely through little key words into your posts that give away your true feelings.

 

There is no giving a "chance" with EJ with you. You have made up your mind. Now it is all about stopping the paroting of things that are not true.

Your point was that we don't know if would EJ do better on the Vikes, yes? How do we know he wouldn't do better on the Pats than Tom Brady would do on the Bills?

[John from Riverside]

I crapped on Bridgewater as a top 5 prospect. I said after the draft that the Vikings took him in right about the correct spot.... they played their draft very well.

I think it is also worth noting that Teddie gets things that help him succeed as a QB......

 

Namely.....a running game that actually works.

 

See people keep talking bout our RBs and how much we like to run the ball.....if we have to run it 10 times to gain 20 yards that is not effective running.

 

The running game of Bridgewater kept the pressure off him......

Your point was that we don't know if would EJ do better on the Vikes, yes? How do we know he wouldn't do better on the Pats than Tom Brady would do on the Bills?

Why are you continuing to change the subject?

[FireChan]

I think it is also worth noting that Teddie gets things that help him succeed as a QB......

 

Namely.....a running game that actually works.

 

See people keep talking bout our RBs and how much we like to run the ball.....if we have to run it 10 times to gain 20 yards that is not effective running.

 

The running game of Bridgewater kept the pressure off him......

 

Why are you continuing to change the subject?

What? I'm asking you a very similar question that you asked me.

[C.Biscuit97]

If there is anyone here that would take EJ over Bridgewater or is on the fence about who is better then I know never to take anything they say seriously. Ever. I sincerely hope that nobody here feels that way.

Is there anyone who would take Nate Hackett over Norv Turner?

 

But the coaching rookie Qbs have doesn't matter.

Bang, I was remember many on here crapping on Bridgewater because of what the "experts" we're saying after his pre-draft workout. I for one was a big fan of Bridgewater coming out of college and hoped the Bills would draft him. I, personally, would still like EJ over Bridgewater because of EJs arm strength, his stature, his mobility and his upside. I really believe we are going to see more of the 2013 EJ Manuel than last years version. EJ seems, to me, to have a major competitive spirit and wants to put his imprint on this team and the league. I think he will win over his team with his play, like he was doing his rookie season, and eventually the fans like Chan and Metz.

Bridge water has everything you want in a qb but a big arm. It's why pro days are a joke.

 

Still, you can't understand how much help Norv Turner is to a rookie qb. The fact that EJ got Hackett while Luck got Arians and Bridgewater got Turner is a joke. Turner is a great playcaller.

 

I do worry about Bridgewater's arm. He throws pop ups on deep throws. I get a Pennington vibe. He can get you to the playoffs but you will be a bit limited.

 

Also worth noting that EJ does have a better td to int ratio than TB.

[metzelaars_lives]

I am trying to bow out of this thread as discreetly as possible. But I encourage everyone to go back to the main page and read the article from the Syracuse newspaper about the QB situation. The guy pretty much says, "at this point the prospects of EJ developing into a franchise QB appear extremely slim." OK so of course he's a hack and hater but guys, this is what most of the country outside of this little Bills bubble believes. And when I say "Bills bubble," I'm not even talking about Bills fans, I'm literally talking about you- the dozen or so people in this very thread that think my opinion that EJ "probably won't" develop into a franchise QB (I wouldn't even say slim!) is some crazy, out of leftfield, overly cynical point of view. I have even been called a troll just for having this opinion, which again, ALL OF AMERICA SHARES EXCEPT YOU.

 

And also, dude, David Carr, no. Look up his numbers from last year, they will surprise you. He looked very promising for most of the year. He is way ahead of EJ Manuel. Can EJ make up ground on him this year? Sure. Could he surpass him this year? Yes, it's possible. If he wins the job first. But you guys are so ridiculous in how you give Manuel this incredibly lenient benefit of the doubt and then nitpick QB's on other teams that are well ahead of him.

Edited July 22, 2015 by metzelaars_lives

[GG]

 

And also, dude, David Carr, no. Look up his numbers from last year, they will surprise you. He looked very promising for most of the year. He is way ahead of EJ Manuel. Can EJ make up ground on him this year? Sure. Could he surpass him this year? Yes, it's possible. But you guys are so ridiculous in how you give Manuel this incredibly lenient benefit of the doubt and then nitpick QB's on other teams that are well ahead of him.

 

You mean derek?

[thebandit27]

I am trying to bow out of this thread as discreetly as possible. But I encourage everyone to go back to the main page and read the article from the Syracuse newspaper about the QB situation. The guy pretty much says, "at this point the prospects of EJ developing into a franchise QB appear extremely slim." OK so of course he's a hack and hater but guys, this is what most of the country outside of this little Bills bubble believes. And when I say "Bills bubble," I'm not even talking about Bills fans, I'm literally talking about you- the dozen or so people in this very thread that think my opinion that EJ "probably won't" develop into a franchise QB (I wouldn't even say slim!) is some crazy, out of leftfield, overly cynical point of view. I have even been called a troll just for having this opinion- which again, ALL OF AMERICA SHARES EXCEPT YOU.

 

And also, dude, David Carr, no. Look up his numbers from last year, they will surprise you. He looked very promising for most of the year. He is way ahead of EJ Manuel. Can EJ make up ground on him this year? Sure. Could he surpass him this year? Yes, it's possible. But you guys are so ridiculous in how you give Manuel this incredibly lenient benefit of the doubt and then nitpick QB's on other teams that are well ahead of him.

 

Assuming you mean Derek...he was actually not very good.

 

His rookie numbers are actually behind EJ's in nearly every category, though he did have a better TD/INT ratio. I would say they are basically in the same spot: showed some good things as rookies, not nearly good enough to be considered franchise at this point, and have quite a ways to go before their respective teams can rest easy at the QB position.

[GunnerBill]

 

Assuming you mean Derek...he was actually not very good.

 

His rookie numbers are actually behind EJ's in nearly every category, though he did have a better TD/INT ratio. I would say they are basically in the same spot: showed some good things as rookies, not nearly good enough to be considered franchise at this point, and have quite a ways to go before their respective teams can rest easy at the QB position.

 

Yep. 100% right. Carr had some stinkers last year, the same as EJ in his rookie year. I actually think EJ played better his rookie year than Carr. Carr has some tools, he might even be good but he is less of a sure thing than EJ right now and EJ is nowhere close to a sure thing.

[metzelaars_lives]

 

You mean derek?

No I meant David. He's making a comeback.

 

Derek Carr on the other hand, was ranked 20th yesterday among NFL QB's by ESPN Insiders. They had Matt Cassel ranked 31st. EJ Manuel was ranked N/A because ESPN Insiders were assuming that he would lose out on the job to Matt Cassel. Is Derek Carr ranked a little high? OK fine. But guys, again, only on this thread would someone saying, "I don't know, I think I'd take EJ Manuel over Derek Carr" be considered a rational thought. Do you really think if you were a Raiders fan and you just saw Derek Carr throw for 21 TD's as a rookie to freaking James Jones and God knows who (we love the Marrone excuse on TBD but would never consider who Derek Carr and Teddy Bridgewater were actually throwing the ball to) that you would be like, "I don't know guys, I really like this Manuel kid in Buffalo... I mean, I know he was so God awful all of last year that he was strongly rumored to get cut and he wasn't even that good in college, but I'm tellin ya, he was misused by his coach and he's got this magical upside..." You guys are living in fantasy land.

Edited July 22, 2015 by metzelaars_lives

[Dorkington]

QB 1:

GP	CMP	ATT	CMP%	YDS	AVG	TD	LNG	INT	FUM	QBR	RAT
15	256	437	58.6	2,810	6.43	16	80	12	4	--	78.5

GP	ATT	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD	FD	FUM	LST
15	69	238	3.4	19	3	16	3	0

QB 2:

GP	CMP	ATT	CMP%	YDS	AVG	TD	LNG	INT	FUM	QBR	RAT
16	348	599	58.1	3,270	5.46	21	77	12	4	--	76.6

GP	ATT	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD	FD	FUM	LST
16	29	92	3.2	41	0	10	6	2

[Heitz]

 

QB 1:

GP	CMP	ATT	CMP%	YDS	AVG	TD	LNG	INT	FUM	QBR	RAT
15	256	437	58.6	2,810	6.43	16	80	12	4	--	78.5

GP	ATT	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD	FD	FUM	LST
15	69	238	3.4	19	3	16	3	0

QB 2:

GP	CMP	ATT	CMP%	YDS	AVG	TD	LNG	INT	FUM	QBR	RAT
16	348	599	58.1	3,270	5.46	21	77	12	4	--	76.6

GP	ATT	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD	FD	FUM	LST
16	29	92	3.2	41	0	10	6	2

All I know is one of those two SUCKS!