K-9 Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 From ESPN's League Insiders rankings of NFL QBs: "Manuel has no instincts after the ball is snapped," a personnel director said. "He's a great kid, has some talent. But he could not decipher or make quick decisions in college, and I do not see him doing it now." I think this pretty much sums E.J. up, from what we've all seen, but some refuse to admit. I just have not seen an NFL instinct in him either. EJ has shown great instincts after the snap AT TIMES. Just far too inconsistent in that department. Which is not surprising at all. If he ever learns to trust what he sees when he sees it and can remain poised in the pocket instead of rushing too much (again, a common ailment of young QBs), then he has a great chance of succeeding. I don't think that impossible given that we've seen enough glimpses to suggest he's capable. As I've stated many times, the biggest obstacle to achieving the above, is his confidence, which was shot last year in the wake of the incessant "no negative plays" mantra of Marrone. He was in such a hurry to not screw the pooch, he just couldn't get comfortable. I've never met a good QB who was afraid to phuck up. He has to have that luxury. If not, he doesn't stand a chance. GO BILLS!!!
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 Except those examples are before those QBs played a game in the NFL--you are giving examples where scouts/opinionators were wrong about a prospect. The quote is an assessment of EJ after he has played in the NFL.--in fact the guy says EJ is no different than in college....... You're right. No qb has ever been second guess after their first 2 seasons in the NFL. Are you serious with this? What is your purpose besides trying to crap over everything Bills related?
metzelaars_lives Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 I wasnt aware that was a defense of EJ......more of a comdamnation of Marrone and Hackett So I assume that your name will NOT be in the chatbox bitching up a storm that EJ throws a bad pass? If only the NFL tape on him would agree with these comments......they dont - He has some overthrows for sure - He has some throws to the back shoulder that forces a WR to make a adjustment - He does not always hit the CORRECT reciever But EJ's tape do not bear these comments out.....the ball is out of his hands pretty quickly.......and he is finding open receivers.......this last year he is even throwing to guys before they are open (saw it more then a few times in my review if the texans game) Some of his deep throws have been absoutely beautiful......the Watkins throw with Grimes on him comes to mind. A nearly perfect throw. EJ Manuel is RAW.........but there is talent there. Its just a matter if he is better then the other 2 QBs he is competing with in camp now. No. I will be completely reasonable and objective about him just as I have always been about every Bills player. If he completely sucks, I will say he sucks. If he's just OK, I'll say he's just OK. If he's great, I'll say he's great. I promise. I have no ulterior motive here. And I also would never post on this website during a Bills game. I am at the bar watching. The analysis comes after the game.
John from Riverside Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 No. I will be completely reasonable and objective about him just as I have always been about every Bills player. If he completely sucks, I will say he sucks. If he's just OK, I'll say he's just OK. If he's great, I'll say he's great. I promise. I have no ulterior motive here. And I also would never post on this website during a Bills game. I am at the bar watching. The analysis comes after the game. Fair enough Metz....there are so many trolls in the shout box on game day it is easy to get the names mixed up....maybe it wasnt you
YoloinOhio Posted July 21, 2015 Author Posted July 21, 2015 Fair enough Metz....there are so many trolls in the shout box on game day it is easy to get the names mixed up....maybe it wasnt youi can't even survive a GDT let alone in-game shoutbox!
johnwalter Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 Fair enough Metz....there are so many trolls in the shout box on game day it is easy to get the names mixed up....maybe it wasnt you does TBD keep a shoutbox history?
John from Riverside Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 does TBD keep a shoutbox history? I dont think it does....but I will take Metz at his word
YoloinOhio Posted July 21, 2015 Author Posted July 21, 2015 does TBD keep a shoutbox history? yes! Shoutbox archive
johnwalter Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 yes! Shoutbox archive ...f*ck... looks like i have some hacking to do
thebandit27 Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 Fair enough Metz....there are so many trolls in the shout box on game day it is easy to get the names mixed up....maybe it wasnt you I'll vouch for Metz...never seen an outlandish take on the EJ subject. I can't say I completely agree with his opinion, as I am not as down on EJ as some others are, but I've never seen him overtly write EJ off.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 From ESPN's League Insiders rankings of NFL QBs: "Manuel has no instincts after the ball is snapped," a personnel director said. "He's a great kid, has some talent. But he could not decipher or make quick decisions in college, and I do not see him doing it now." I think this pretty much sums E.J. up, from what we've all seen, but some refuse to admit. I just have not seen an NFL instinct in him either. I posted this prior in the Out of Town thread - IMO ESPN's League Insiders are a bunch of hacks. (not all but most) They dump on Buffalo all the time for the long playoff drought. In the same breath they praise teams with equally poor or worse off overall W/L records in the past 5 seasons then trash Da Bills Pete Prisco is another hater
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) Maybe because JJ Watt is not a second option... How many FF's did JJ have last season. 4? I may be mistaken but I recall that he scored way more than 1 TD last season on turnovers. If you don't make an effort to guard the opponents best player .... you deserve what you get. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/11/jj-watt-touchdowns-_n_5965876.html Houston Texans defensive end J.J. Watt is heralded for his ability to prevent touchdowns. But this season, Watt has made a habit of actually scoring them. After returning a fumbled snap 45 yards for a touchdown against the Indianapolis Colts on Thursday night, Watt has three scores through six games this season. J.J. Watt's 5 TD's in 2014 - Houston Texans Edited July 21, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
Beerball Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 This is a interesting (and true) observation The coaches that could get EJ to play like that for 4 quarters might just have themselves a franchise QB Or it could be that defenses are playing more "vanilla" during the last 2 minutes of a half so the reads are minimal. I hope he turns into an honest to goodness NFL starting QB for the Bills, but I have serious concerns. I don't believe that makes me a bad fan. does TBD keep a shoutbox history?no, or mostly no. It is purged each week.
YoloinOhio Posted July 21, 2015 Author Posted July 21, 2015 Or it could be that defenses are playing more "vanilla" during the last 2 minutes of a half so the reads are minimal. I hope he turns into an honest to goodness NFL starting QB for the Bills, but I have serious concerns. I don't believe that makes me a bad fan. no, or mostly no. It is purged each week. oops, my bad. I thought I had seen people dig up old Shouts before.
Beerball Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 oops, my bad. I thought I had seen people dig up old Shouts before.yup , used to. With the last upgrade SDS started dumping every week.
metzelaars_lives Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) ...f*ck... looks like i have some hacking to do I don't even know how to access the shoutbox from my phone and I don't have the NFL ticket. I can assure you I do not take my computer with me to the bar to chat in the shoutbox during Bills games. I wait for Bill in NYC's thread after I get home and I'm drunk to start arguing with him. Edited July 21, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
metzelaars_lives Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) I posted this prior in the Out of Town thread - IMO ESPN's League Insiders are a bunch of hacks. (not all but most) They dump on Buffalo all the time for the long playoff drought. In the same breath they praise teams with equally poor or worse off overall W/L records in the past 5 seasons then trash Da Bills Pete Prisco is another hater And guy, you gotta stop calling every writer a hack and everyone who is not as glowingly optimistic about EJ Manuel (or the Bills in general for that matter) as you are, a hater. No one is out to get the Bills. They have sucked for the better part of 15 years. The Bills are definitely an 'I'll believe it when I see it' proposition to every sane, unbiased football fan, writer and analyst in the United States. And so too, of course, is EJ Manuel. Bills fans sound like such a bunch of losers as it is with the constant "Cheatriots" and "Pats*" nonsense. Can we please stop with the "Why don't they respect us?" narrative? I promise you that if the Bills are good and win a lot of games that these hacks and haters you speak of will stop trashing our beloved Bills. Also, I don't have ESPN Insider. Can someone tell me where they had Manuel ranked? Edited July 21, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
thewildrabbit Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) Just a few points here. Fans need to think that if it takes an average QB 3-4 years to develop properly. Then they need to remember EJ hasn't even played a full season yet. (14 games) Then those QB's would also need to be coached by people with actual NFL coaching credentials, and not wannabe morons who had no business running an NFL team or calling NFL plays. In my view EJ is starting year this year like he is a rookie with an actual competent NFL offensive coordinator. We also need to recall that one of the most accredited draft gurus in Mike Mayock stated that EJ was a worthy first round pick. But that he was also a project QB that needed to sit and learn, and that many of his flaws are coachable...that is by actual NFL coaches! Now go back to EJ's first year in the NFL and realize he was one of three NFL rookie QB's on the roster with no QB coach, no veteran QB on the roster either! All those young men had to learn from was OC Mr Can't Hackett leading them. BTW this stupidity still blows my mind. EJ stated he learned more by watching Kyle Orton prepare for each opponent every week then he ever did from Hackett. Freddy also stated he had never seen a QB prepare as much as Orton did. The only drawback I can see in this years coaching staff is that the Bills re hired QB coach David Lee who seemed to screw up Fitz's mechanics pretty good, and Geno Smith really looked bad last year in NY. Kinda why I'm fearful for EJ this season. Now reading about all the dislike for the last offensive coaching staff, and HC. I think fans also need to remember that had Doug Marrone not chosen to walk away he and his coaches would have not only been retained for 2015. That Saint Doug would have been given a hefty raise by the owner should he have stayed. Edited July 21, 2015 by FeartheLosing
metzelaars_lives Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) Just a few points here. Fans need to think that if it takes an average QB 3-4 years to develop properly. Then they need to remember EJ hasn't even played a full season yet. (14 games) Then those QB's would also need to be coached by people with actual NFL coaching credentials, and not wannabe morons who had no business running an NFL team or calling NFL plays. In my view EJ is starting year this year like he is a rookie with an actual competent NFL offensive coordinator. We also need to recall that one of the most accredited draft gurus in Mike Mayock stated that EJ was a worthy first round pick. But that he was also a project QB that needed to sit and learn, and that many of his flaws are coachable...that is by actual NFL coaches! Now go back to EJ's first year in the NFL and realize he was one of three NFL rookie QB's on the roster with no QB coach, no veteran QB on the roster either! All those young men had was to learn from was OC Mr Can't Hackett leading them. BTW this stupidity still blows my mind. EJ stated he learned more by watching Kyle Orton prepare for each opponent every week then he ever did from Hackett. Freddy also stated he had never seen a QB prepare as much as Orton did. The only drawback I can see in this years coaching staff is that the Bills re hired QB coach David Lee who seemed to screw up Fitz's mechanics pretty good, and Geno Smith really looked bad last year in NY. Kinda why I'm fearful for EJ this season. Now reading about all the dislike for the last offensive coaching staff, and HC. I think fans also need to remember that had Doug Marrone not chosen to walk away he and his coaches would have not only been retained for 2015. That Saint Doug would have been given a hefty raise by the owner should he have stayed. Few things. Don't disagree with most of what you wrote. But Thad Lewis was not a rookie in 2013. And also, as I have stated before, Doug Marrone quit because he refused to fire the bulk of his coaching staff. So one way or another we would not have gotten Marrone along with his full complement of coaches again in 2015. And as far as you know who, I don't mind giving him a little bit more of a leash. But there have been QB's who have shown more development in less time than he has been given. Teddy Bridgewater and David Carr being the two most recent examples. But anyway. Edited July 21, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
The Wiz Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) Just a few points here. Fans need to think that if it takes an average QB 3-4 years to develop properly. Then they need to remember EJ hasn't even played a full season yet. (14 games) Then those QB's would also need to be coached by people with actual NFL coaching credentials, and not wannabe morons who had no business running an NFL team or calling NFL plays. In my view EJ is starting year this year like he is a rookie with an actual competent NFL offensive coordinator. We also need to recall that one of the most accredited draft gurus in Mike Mayock stated that EJ was a worthy first round pick. But that he was also a project QB that needed to sit and learn, and that many of his flaws are coachable...that is by actual NFL coaches! Now go back to EJ's first year in the NFL and realize he was one of three NFL rookie QB's on the roster with no QB coach, no veteran QB on the roster either! All those young men had to learn from was OC Mr Can't Hackett leading them. BTW this stupidity still blows my mind. EJ stated he learned more by watching Kyle Orton prepare for each opponent every week then he ever did from Hackett. Freddy also stated he had never seen a QB prepare as much as Orton did. The only drawback I can see in this years coaching staff is that the Bills re hired QB coach David Lee who seemed to screw up Fitz's mechanics pretty good, and Geno Smith really looked bad last year in NY. Kinda why I'm fearful for EJ this season. Now reading about all the dislike for the last offensive coaching staff, and HC. I think fans also need to remember that had Doug Marrone not chosen to walk away he and his coaches would have not only been retained for 2015. That Saint Doug would have been given a hefty raise by the owner should he have stayed. I agree with a lot of this. One thing to note about David Lee though, Fitz was what we all knew he was. He was a smart guy with a mediocre arm. Lee publicly criticised Geno for his inability to be consistent which I think was likely Geno reverting to his old ways. Unfortunately, I don't know if Geno looked better or worse playing the way Lee coached him. And thus far, reports of ejs footwork and mechanics have been said to be greatly improved. (I remember reading one and hearing one but might have been the same source) That being said, I do still have concerns like you but I'm not going to blame all the problems under Lee on Lee. Edited July 21, 2015 by The Wiz
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