"How a rookie HC derailed a rookie QB"/All-22 of EJ Manuel

[Fixxxer]

Its pretty much what I saw

 

I think what happened next was Marrone panicked and benched EJ......thinking that Orton's veteran presence was going to fix the problem that he and his own ineptitude were creating......Orton could not over come in and frankly started playing WORSE then EJ becuase EJ prolonged plays with his athletisism and Orton has NO athlete him him at all.......

 

We missed an opportunity there to see if EJ is the man.....and it rolled over into this year.

 

To tell you the thruth, knowing what we know now and with 7 months to think about what transpired last season, I'm glad EJ was benched, because I don't think him or any other young QB would have thrived in Marrone's offense, an offense in which a ten year veteran saw his game decline as the season wore on.

I

[FireChan]

Yup and yup.

 

Anybody who says they "know" anything about EJ is full of it. All they are doing is invoking their choice-supportive bias. Explained: Either they, immediately, chose to believe Todd McShay's "slow eyes/wasted pick" assessment, or, they chose to believe that EJ's work ethic, character, and "best player we've had in 30 years" stories, from various sources, assessment. In either case, all further info, day in, year out, will be processed in a way that supports the original choice, to the point of absurdity.

 

Symptom: Any poster who remains incapable of processing and accepting that Marrone purposefully screwed up the QB situation for no other reason than covering his own ass. Disease: Choice-Supportive Bias.

 

3 things are still hilarious:

1. practically every heated exchange on this subject distills directly from choice-supportive bias. It's a F'ing case study that requires no effort.

2. my avatar/quote is still relevant, because EJ still hasn't played enough games to qualify as "not a rookie"

3. almost all of the "analyses" here are either based on the woeful "eye test", or equally woeful use of analytics. It's hard to decide upon a worse fate for the world, one where the "eye test" of rank amateurs is used to run things, or, one where the < 0 analytics knowledge of rank amateurs is used to run things.

 

I want to change my avatar. But, I can't. Not until it's truth is accepted, and choice-supportive bias on EJ is eradicated.

 

We simply do not know. Deal with it.

But we know the bolded? Oh wait, no. We don't. Deal with it.

[OCinBuffalo]

But we know the bolded? Oh wait, no. We don't. Deal with it.

Ah, Choice-Supportive Bias Patient #1 shows up. What a surprise.

[metzelaars_lives]

Yup and yup.

 

Anybody who says they "know" anything about EJ is full of it. All they are doing is invoking their choice-supportive bias. Explained: Either they, immediately, chose to believe Todd McShay's "slow eyes/wasted pick" assessment, or, they chose to believe that EJ's work ethic, character, and "best player we've had in 30 years" stories, from various sources, assessment. In either case, all further info, day in, year out, will be processed in a way that supports the original choice, to the point of absurdity.

 

Symptom: Any poster who remains incapable of processing and accepting that Marrone purposefully screwed up the QB situation for no other reason than covering his own ass. Disease: Choice-Supportive Bias.

 

3 things are still hilarious:

1. practically every heated exchange on this subject distills directly from choice-supportive bias. It's a F'ing case study that requires no effort.

2. my avatar/quote is still relevant, because EJ still hasn't played enough games to qualify as "not a rookie"

3. almost all of the "analyses" here are either based on the woeful "eye test", or equally woeful use of analytics. It's hard to decide upon a worse fate for the world, one where the "eye test" of rank amateurs is used to run things, or, one where the < 0 analytics knowledge of rank amateurs is used to run things.

 

I want to change my avatar. But, I can't. Not until it's truth is accepted, and choice-supportive bias on EJ is eradicated.

 

We simply do not know. Deal with it.

Why has been Tim Tebow been relegated to camp fodder at this stage in his career? He's only played 14 games too. How could anyone possibly know anything about him? Could it be that he has sucked in practice too? Did Manuel's 2014 offseason/preseason concern you at all? Or when he spent all summer sailing balls in 7-on-7 drills was that Marrone's fault too? You know, plenty of quarterbacks have never even gotten 14 starts in this league to showcase their talents. Plenty of quarterbacks in this league would have been cut if they looked like Manuel last offseason/preseason. He's lucky he got taken in the first round and not the third round or people would perceive him and his supposed upside extremely differently. As I stated yesterday, he wasn't even that good in college. All that being said, I will go on record as saying that I am officially rooting for EJ Manuel to win the job. I think it's better for the organization if he emerges as our starter. But my God, if he can't beat out Matt Cassel, you people need to stop this charade. You realize if he can't beat out Matt Cassel and is relegated to backup duties again this year, he will still have only played 14 games. So does that mean you still get to say that we know nothing about him? Or will his not winning the job count in terms of what we "know" about him? Honest questions for you. Fire away.

Edited July 20, 2015 by metzelaars_lives

[OCinBuffalo]

Why has been Tim Tebow been relegated to camp fodder at this stage in his career? He's only played 14 games too. How could anyone possibly know anything about him? Could it be that he has sucked in practice too? Did Manuel's 2014 offseason/preseason concern you at all? Or when he spent all summer sailing balls in 7-on-7 drills was that Marrone's fault too? You know, plenty of quarterbacks have never even gotten 14 starts in this league to showcase their talents. Plenty of quarterbacks in this league would have been cut if they looked like Manuel last offseason/preseason. He's lucky he got taken in the first round and not the third round or people would perceive him and his supposed upside extremely differently. As I stated yesterday, he wasn't even that good in college. All that being said, I will go on record as saying that I am officially rooting for EJ Manuel to win the job. I think it's better for the organization if he emerges as our starter. But my God, if he can't beat out Matt Cassel, you people need to stop this charade. You realize if he can't beat out Matt Cassel and is relegated to backup duties again this year, he will still have only played 14 games. So does that mean you can still say we know nothing about him" Or will his not winning the job count in terms of what we "know" about him? Honest questions for you. Fire away.

Patient #2, step forward, turn your head to the side, and cough.

[FireChan]

Ah, Choice-Supportive Bias Patient #1 shows up. What a surprise.

Except I've never said I "know" anything about EJ. Your entire point is flawed and invalid.

[metzelaars_lives]

Patient #2, step forward, turn your head to the side, and cough.

Listen strunzo, why don't you read what I wrote.

 

You made a post in which you said:

 

a) I'm not allowed to have an opinion as to whether or not EJ Manuel will become a good QB. OK fine, you're not the first one to tell me this.

 

but then b) Doug Marrone intentionally sabotaged EJ Manuel in order to "cover his ass?" What does that even mean? Doug Marrone thought that by getting poor QB play and losing, he somehow stood to gain something? And furthermore, if we can't all see this, then we're all idiots?

 

You need to change your tone man. Why don't you actually read what I wrote and let me know what you think instead of always being so incredibly condescending and smarmy. And P.S. you're not quite as smart as you think you are.

Edited July 20, 2015 by metzelaars_lives

[hondo in seattle]

Here's my take on this debate...

 

The season will answer many of our questions.

 

All the name calling supporting one position or the other isn't helpful or polite. It doesn't persuade anyone and at this point I don't think anyone's changing their mind until the season gets underway.

 

Regardless of what we think the likelihood of EJ developing into a franchise QB, we should all support the guy as long as he dons a Bills uni every Sunday.

[dayman]

Abandoning EJ early in the season was the most competent thing Marrone did while he was here.

 

It's amazing to see people re-write history and/or just forget ... that one decision set the tone for us going on to have a "successful" season (by our standards).

Edited July 21, 2015 by Rex'sOffense

[John from Riverside]

Abandoning EJ early in the season was the most competent thing Marrone did while he was here.

 

It's amazing to see people re-write history and/or just forget ... that one decision set the tone for us going on to have a "successful" season (by our standards).

Probably would have been picking top 5 in this draft had it not been for our D......just something to consider

[Augie]

Here's my take on this debate...

 

The season will answer many of our questions.

 

All the name calling supporting one position or the other isn't helpful or polite. It doesn't persuade anyone and at this point I don't think anyone's changing their mind until the season gets underway.

 

Regardless of what we think the likelihood of EJ developing into a franchise QB, we should all support the guy as long as he dons a Bills uni every Sunday.

 

Your rational thought seems to be wasted here. But nice try! :-)

 

(The offseason is just too darn long...)

[John from Riverside]

Here's my take on this debate...

 

The season will answer many of our questions.

 

All the name calling supporting one position or the other isn't helpful or polite. It doesn't persuade anyone and at this point I don't think anyone's changing their mind until the season gets underway.

 

Regardless of what we think the likelihood of EJ developing into a franchise QB, we should all support the guy as long as he dons a Bills uni every Sunday.

Hondo.....

 

You are of course right....

 

Bugs the crap out of me cuz I will see these same screen names int he chat box in about a month B word B word B word

[Solomon Grundy]

To tell you the thruth, knowing what we know now and with 7 months to think about what transpired last season, I'm glad EJ was benched, because I don't think him or any other young QB would have thrived in Marrone's offense, an offense in which a ten year veteran saw his game decline as the season wore on.

I

I too was glad that Marrone benched EJ. Probably the smartest thing he ever did. Had EJ continued to play behind that offensive line he may have gotten a case of the "Trent Edwards"

[Augie]

I too was glad that Marrone benched EJ. Probably the smartest thing he ever did. Had EJ continued to play behind that offensive line he may have gotten a case of the "Trent Edwards"

That's dangerous stuff! There is no know antidote. It's been fatal to some careers.

[thewildrabbit]

I dont like how Orton started playing it safe when he realized the bills offense was gonna be good....he totally went into a turtle shell.

 

Dont want him back.

 

Exactly which part of the 2014 Bills offense was good in any way besides Orton? The part where Mr Can't Hackett did nothing but call pass plays? The part where Spiller was out injured a lot last year. The part where the brainiac coaching staff used their best offensive weapon in Sammy as a decoy in some games?

 

The guy did manage to go 7-5 playing behind one of the very worst O line this team has had in years. When was the last time the Bills fielded a QB to go 7-5 with an actual winning record? Well I'll tell ya, the last one was Doug Flutie had in 2008-2009, and before that it was Jim Kelly. Then Orton suffered with morons for coaches who did nothing but mostly call pass plays all game long. When they did call a run play it was predictably right up the middle 65% of the time, and usually stuffed at the line. Stating that the Bills also lacked a solid run game to support the QB most of the season as the coaches didn't even try to build an effective running attack after week three. Week after week it was usually 40+ passes, and around 20 rushes every game.

 

Reading over this thread I see fans complaining about the bad O line, the WR's dropping balls and making the wrong reads, the RB's having no holes with Spiller hurt most of the year, and the crappy TE who couldn't block a lick. Yet Orton managed to gain a winning record with that craptastic supporting cast that would have probably gotten EJ killed. That 2014 Bills offensive line ranked dead last in the run game at 32nd, and 23rd in pass blocking mostly because Orton managed to get the ball out before he was sacked.

 

Perhaps that turtle in the shell comment was referring to Orton sliding so he wouldn't take a hit, and I don't hold that against him when I consider who was blocking for him. Stop and reflect on exactly what Orton was dealing with all around him last year.

 

Me personally, I would love to see Orton back in a Bills uni with a slightly better line, an improved WR / RB corps, and a decent TE. Plus the better offensive play calling, and game planning would have a major impact for the upcoming season. I just don't have faith that EJ will be given the proper supporting line to help him properly develop this season. Like I said earlier I don't think the Bills did enough this off season to bolster the weakest area of the tam.

 

 

 

I realize we would all like to put this game out of our memories but it still stings me when I think that a playoff berth was on the line for this game. In week 16 at Oakland and against a 2-12 team with a Raiders defense ranked 32nd in points allowed, 21st in yards.

 

To me it wasn't so much about Khalil Mack being the next Lawrence Taylor as it was that the Bills coaching staff being so inept that they had no answer for helping to block him, or anyone else for that matter. Mack only had 4 measly sacks all season, and one against Buffalo. Scrub Raider DT's looking like Reggie White against that Bills interior line, and Mack ate Henderson for lunch that day. #66 should'n't have even been on the field playing like that. JMO

[John from Riverside]

Exactly which part of the 2014 Bills offense was good in any way besides Orton? The part where Mr Can't Hackett did nothing but call pass plays? The part where Spiller was out injured a lot last year. The part where the brainiac coaching staff used their best offensive weapon in Sammy as a decoy in some games?

 

The guy did manage to go 7-5 playing behind one of the very worst O line this team has had in years. When was the last time the Bills fielded a QB to go 7-5 with an actual winning record? Well I'll tell ya, the last one was Doug Flutie had in 2008-2009, and before that it was Jim Kelly. Then Orton suffered with morons for coaches who did nothing but mostly call pass plays all game long. When they did call a run play it was predictably right up the middle 65% of the time, and usually stuffed at the line. Stating that the Bills also lacked a solid run game to support the QB most of the season as the coaches didn't even try to build an effective running attack after week three. Week after week it was usually 40+ passes, and around 20 rushes every game.

 

Reading over this thread I see fans complaining about the bad O line, the WR's dropping balls and making the wrong reads, the RB's having no holes with Spiller hurt most of the year, and the crappy TE who couldn't block a lick. Yet Orton managed to gain a winning record with that craptastic supporting cast that would have probably gotten EJ killed. That 2014 Bills offensive line ranked dead last in the run game at 32nd, and 23rd in pass blocking mostly because Orton managed to get the ball out before he was sacked.

 

Perhaps that turtle in the shell comment was referring to Orton sliding so he wouldn't take a hit, and I don't hold that against him when I consider who was blocking for him. Stop and reflect on exactly what Orton was dealing with all around him last year.

 

Me personally, I would love to see Orton back in a Bills uni with a slightly better line, an improved WR / RB corps, and a decent TE. Plus the better offensive play calling, and game planning would have a major impact for the upcoming season. I just don't have faith that EJ will be given the proper supporting line to help him properly develop this season. Like I said earlier I don't think the Bills did enough this off season to bolster the weakest area of the tam.

 

 

 

I realize we would all like to put this game out of our memories but it still stings me when I think that a playoff berth was on the line for this game. In week 16 at Oakland and against a 2-12 team with a Raiders defense ranked 32nd in points allowed, 21st in yards.

 

To me it wasn't so much about Khalil Mack being the next Lawrence Taylor as it was that the Bills coaching staff being so inept that they had no answer for helping to block him, or anyone else for that matter. Mack only had 4 measly sacks all season, and one against Buffalo. Scrub Raider DT's looking like Reggie White against that Bills interior line, and Mack ate Henderson for lunch that day. #66 should'n't have even been on the field playing like that. JMO

Your post was a good one....even thought it was made over a typo on my part....when Orton realized that the offense was NOT going to be good.

 

I will say this....if our D was even middle of the pack we do not achieve last years record.......our offense was putrid....Orton after his first two games was ALSO putrid

Edited July 21, 2015 by John from Hemet

[Dorkington]

[Wayne Cubed]

So have we figured it out yet?

 

[eball]

I realize we would all like to put this game out of our memories but it still stings me when I think that a playoff berth was on the line for this game. In week 16 at Oakland

 

I don't want to forget about it at all. That game is the reason we no longer have Marrone and Hackett. It hurt at the time, but in retrospect everything is now better (and yes, I understand and acknowledge the QB position is still in flux and we don't know what sort of an OL we will have). We now have professional coaches.

[Dorkington]

 

I don't want to forget about it at all. That game is the reason we no longer have Marrone and Hackett. It hurt at the time, but in retrospect everything is now better (and yes, I understand and acknowledge the QB position is still in flux and we don't know what sort of an OL we will have). We now have professional coaches.

You know, I agree with all of this...

 

But in the back of my Bills fan brain, I can't help but assume we're going to finish 6-10 because that's our luck